# Greatest American elimination game (game thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 10, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423 "2010-02-10T15:08:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Stowed\_Bob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stowed_bob/32/3312_2.png) [@Stowed\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stowed_Bob)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/41 "2010-02-12T14:02:54Z")
Ambrose Bierce - 2 votes Marilyn Monroe - 2 votes Henry Ford - 2 votes Franklyn Lloyd Wright - 4 votes Not clear if we’re limited to 2 votes per person yet or if we can pile on. I’d pile on Franklyn Lloyd Wright because leaky roofs and building on top of running water (ensuring maximum rot in the shortest amount of time) shows he was incompetent at basic architecture and spiteful. If we are limited to two votes each then consider those above two lost in the void. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/42 "2010-02-12T14:31:06Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > They were the right wing equivalent of Jane Fonda. Stupid celebrities who let themselves be led by the nose and used as propaganda tools. That’s a good characterization of Lindburgh. Ford was a straight-up anti-Semite, though, and he had good reason (by his ideology, anyway) for supporting Hitler. I will say that I wouldn’t vote him off anywhere near this stage, though. Despite his role as propagandist on the wrong side of history, he probably changed American life more than nearly anyone on this list. One overlooked fact in evaluating him is that he was one of the first captains of industry to advocate substantial pay increases for workers–both to create a market for his product and to stave off more intrusive labor activism. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/43 "2010-02-12T14:42:27Z")
> [@](#): > > That’s a good characterization of Lindburgh. Ford was a straight-up anti-Semite, though, and he had good reason (by his ideology, anyway) for supporting Hitler. Ford was a genuine nitwit. All he knew was building cars. He was incredibly ignorant about everything else. There was even a lawsuit over the issue. As I recall, some journalist had called Ford ignorant and Ford sued for libel. Then at the trial, the journalist’s lawyer cross-examined Ford on a number of basic facts and Ford couldn’t answer any of them correctly. The judge ruled that saying Ford was ignorant appeared to be factual. So what’s unfortunate is that Ford had an advisor who was an anti-semite. It was this guy who told Ford all about how the Jews were trying to run the world and kill Christian children. And Ford, dumb as a rock, believed everything he was told. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/44 "2010-02-12T14:59:11Z")
> [@Stowed\_Bob](#): > > …Not clear if we’re limited to 2 votes per person yet or if we can pile on… From the OP: …In the first elimination round… each player has ten votes to use as he or she sees fit, but can spread them around among several nominees, or even spend them all to eliminate a single nominee… ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/45 "2010-02-12T15:24:39Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Too many people on that list are simply famous because they were entertainers. I see nothing “great” about starring in a sitcom or movies. > > 5 votes off each: > Lucille Ball > Marilyn Monroe This ship has probably sailed, but while this strikes me as a fair criticism of Monroe, Ball had a lot more creative input into her show than most stars do, and her show was incredibly influential on both the form television took for the rest of the century and the business of television (whether you think that’s good or bad is another matter). Also, though I don’t think too much weight should be put on it, Lucy and Desi were one of the first interracial or at least inter-ethnic couples to be put before the public in a big way. Anyway, Lucy looks close to certain to be voted out in the first round, and I’m a bit sad about that. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/46 "2010-02-12T15:30:40Z")
I compared Lucille Ball to Jack Kirby. Ball was certainly a major figure in the history of television sitcoms just as Kirby was a major figure in the history of comic books. But then I asked myself: how important are television sitcoms and comic books to American history as a whole? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/47 "2010-02-12T17:01:18Z")
And it’s 12 Eastern Time. Elendil’s Heir has asked me to do the official tally, so here it is: ## 1 Malcolm X 27 2 Marilyn Monroe 15 3 Henry Ford 13 4 Lucille Ball 12 4 Charles Lindbergh 12 6 James Branch Cabell 11 7 Shel Silverstein 9 8 Jack Kirby 8 8 H. P. Lovecraft 8 10 Ambrose Bierce 7 10 Robert Heinlein 7 10 Jimi Hendrix 7 10 Babe Zaharias 7 Daniel Bliss 6 Jim Henson 6 Walt Kelly 6 Carl Sagan 6 Bruce Catton 4 Willis Carrier 4 Babe Ruth 4 Frank Lloyd Wright 4 John Coltrane 3 Harry Bergh 3 Douglas MacArthur 3 Joshua Chamberlain 2 Walt Disney 2 J.P. Morgan 2 Will Rogers 2 PT Barnum Carrie Chapman Catt Aaron Copland Richard Feynman Robert Frost George Gershwin Kurt Godel Helen Keller Martin Luther King Jr. Audie Murphy Elvis Presley John D. Rockefeller Eleanor Roosevelt Margaret Sanger Nikola Tesla Harriet Tubman Mark Twain John von Neumann Daniel Webster Eli Whitney ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/48 "2010-02-12T17:03:42Z")
Up to the OP to decide what to do about the tie. Alternate tie-breakers I can see: (1) whoever was voted to their current vote level the earliest. (2) reverse alphabetical order (in this case, Zaharias) - I think there’s been a very slight bias against people towards the beginning of the alphabet. (3) some sort of run-off I still favor the “everyone’s a loser” approach, since we are after all trying to winnow out the list quickly during these rounds. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/49 "2010-02-12T18:24:45Z")
Many thanks, **Tom**. Everyone in the top bracket of the list, from Malcolm X through Babe Zaharias, is now eliminated. For the second round of voting, each of us again has ten votes, but may use no more than five votes against any individual. The Presidents are no longer immune. No vote trading, please. Let’s consider all of the nominees on their merits. The second round of voting will conclude at noon EST on Tues. Feb. 16. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/50 "2010-02-12T18:34:15Z")
An update of the category-by-category list: Politicians and activists: US Presidents and other political leaders: Presidents (13): John Adams: President, writer, statesman Dwight D. Eisenhower: President, war hero Andrew Jackson: President, general, populist Thomas Jefferson: President, Declaration writer John F. Kennedy: President, “New Frontier” Abraham Lincoln: President, emancipator, writer James Madison: President, Framer, statesman Richard Nixon: President, lawyer, author James K Polk: President, statesman Franklin D. Roosevelt: President, reformer, statesman Theodore Roosevelt: President, conservationist, statesman Harry Truman: President, statesman George Washington: President, general, statesman Other leaders (9): Benjamin Franklin: Scientist, statesman, inventor Alexander Hamilton: Financier, economist, statesman Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.: Supreme Court Justice George Marshall: General, diplomat, statesman John Marshall: Fourth Chief Justice William Seward: Diplomat; bought Alaska Earl Warren: Chief Justice, governor Daniel Webster: Orator, advocate, statesman Roger Williams: Statesman, religious leader Native American leaders (3): Chief Joseph (Hin-mah-too-yah-lat-kekt): Leader, peacemaker, tactician Sitting Bull: Indian leader, warrior Tecumseh: Indian leader, uniter Activists: Women’s rights/suffrage (3): Susan B. Anthony: Suffrage activist Carrie Chapman Catt: Women’s rights suffragist Margaret Sanger: Birth-control pioneer Civil Rights/Abolitionists (9/10): John Brown: Righteous, inspirational abolitionist Cesar Chavez: Civil rights activist Frederick Douglass: Abolitionist, orator William Lloyd Garrison: Abolitionist, writer Langston Hughes: Harlem Renaissance poet Martin Luther King Jr.: Preacher, orator, humanitarian Jackie Robinson: Athlete, activist, inspiration Eleanor Roosevelt: Reformer, writer, advocate Harriet Tubman: Civil rights advocate [del]Malcolm X: Civil rights leader[/del] Other Activists (5): Henry Bergh: Saved children, animals Daniel Bliss: Educator, AUB founder Thomas Nast: Editorial cartoonist, muckraker Thomas Paine: Political theorist, pamphleteer Upton Sinclair: Author, muckraker Scientists and inventors (15): Willis Carrier: Air conditioning pioneer George Washington Carver: Agricultural botanist Thomas Edison: Inventor, workaholic Albert Einstein: Scientist, activist John Franklin Enders: Modern vaccines pioneer Philo Farnsworth: TV piorneer, inventor Richard Feynman: Physicist, Renaissance man Benjamin Franklin: Scientist, statesman, inventor Kurt Gödel: Mathematician, incompleteness theorem Carl Sagan: Astronomer, science popularizer Jonas Salk: Polio vaccine inventor Nikola Tesla: Inventor, engineer John von Neumann: Mathematician, scientist, polymath Eli Whitney: Inventor, cotton gin Orville and Wilbur Wright: Aviation pioneers, inventors Businessmen and industrialists (6/7): P.T. Barnum: World’s greatest showman Andrew Carnegie: Industrialist, philanthropist Walt Disney: Animator, entrepreneur, icon Thomas Edison: Inventor, workaholic [del]Henry Ford: Inventor, industrialist, philanthropist[/del] J.P. Morgan: Financial giant, tycoon John D. Rockefeller: Billionaire, philanthropist Generals and soldiers (7): Joshua Chamberlain: Civil War hero Dwight D. Eisenhower: President, war hero Andrew Jackson: President, general, populist Douglas MacArthur: WWII general Audie Murphy: Decorated soldier, actor George S. Patton: WWII general, orator John J. Pershing: Top WWI general Writers (12/17): [del]Ambrose Bierce: Author, journalist, satirist, critic[/del] [del]James Branch Cabell: Author, marriage proponent[/del] Bruce Catton: Civil War historian Ralph Waldo Emerson: Philosopher, writer Robert Frost: Greatest American poet [del]Robert Heinlein: Science fiction author[/del] Langston Hughes: Harlem Renaissance poet Helen Keller: Redefined language, mind [del]H.P. Lovecraft: Horror writer[/del] Thomas Paine: Political theorist, pamphleteer Edgar Allan Poe: Poet, writer, critic Will Rogers: Humorist, social commentator [del]Shel Silverstein: Author, humorist[/del] Upton Sinclair: Author, muckraker Henry David Thoreau: Poet, naturalist, philosopher Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens): Humorist, “Huckleberry Finn” Walt Whitman: Civil War poet “Show biz” (5/7): [del]Lucille Ball: Actress, comedian, redhead[/del] P.T. Barnum: World’s greatest showman Walt Disney: Animator, entrepreneur, icon Jim Henson: Beloved children’s programmer [del]Marilyn Monroe: Legendary film star[/del] Edward R Murrow: Broadcaster Orson Welles: Writer, director, actor Musicians and composers (5/6): Leonard Bernstein: Composer, conductor, educator John Coltrane: Musician, composer Aaron Copland: Composer, musician George Gershwin: Prolific, versatile composer [del]Jimi Hendrix, musician and activist[/del] Elvis Presley, rock-and-roller Comics (2/3): Walt Kelly: “Pogo” creator, humorist [del]Jack Kirby: Comics pioneer[/del] Thomas Nast: Editorial cartoonist, muckraker Athletes (4/5): Jesse Owens: Famed Olympic athlete Jackie Robinson: Athlete, activist, inspiration Babe Ruth: Legendary baseball icon Jim Thorpe: Native American athlete [del]Babe Zaharias: Greatest female athlete[/del] Miscellaneous (2/3): Lewis and Clark (Meriwether and William, resp.): Louisiana Purchase explorers [del]Charles Lindbergh: Aviator, American hero[/del] Frank Lloyd Wright: Prairie School architect ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/51 "2010-02-12T18:41:04Z")
And for votes: Nixon 4 Tesla 1 Henson 1 Sagan 1 (from my first ballot) And some athletes: Ruth 1 Owens 1 Thorpe 1 I think I’ll take a harder look at scientists, politicians, and so on next round. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/52 "2010-02-12T19:52:04Z")
PT Barnum Bruce Catton Joshua Chamberlain John Adams John Adams John Adams John Adams John Adams Daniel Bliss John F. Kennedy ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/53 "2010-02-12T21:46:11Z")
Barnum - 1 vote Bergh - 1 vote Bliss - 1 vote Disney - 1 vote Henson - 1 vote Kelly - 1 vote Ruth - 3 votes Frank Lloyd Wright - 1 vote ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/54 "2010-02-12T23:29:35Z")
Keeping with my “one vote each” policy for now: Daniel Bliss Bruce Catton Joshua Chamberlain Richard Feynman Jim Henson Walt Kelly Richard Nixon Carl Sagan Margaret Sanger Nikola Tesla ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2010, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/55 "2010-02-13T01:41:41Z")
:eek: You wouldn’t have done that if you’d read about Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain, hero of Gettysburg, winner of the Medal of Honor, educator, scholar, citizen, soldier. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Stowed\_Bob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stowed_bob/32/3312_2.png) [@Stowed\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stowed_Bob)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2010, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/56 "2010-02-13T03:35:30Z")
Franklyn Lloyd Wright - 5 votes P.T. Barnum - 4 votes Nixon - 1 vote ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/57 "2010-02-13T03:40:33Z")
5 on Nixon 5 on Jackson ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2010, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/58 "2010-02-13T03:41:40Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > :eek: You wouldn’t have done that if you’d read about Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain, hero of Gettysburg, winner of the Medal of Honor, educator, scholar, citizen, soldier. 😉 Pretty much. That dude was the MAN during the Civil war. And he was wounded but kept on fighting as well! ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2010, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/59 "2010-02-13T04:59:48Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > :eek: You wouldn’t have done that if you’d read about Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain, hero of Gettysburg, winner of the Medal of Honor, educator, scholar, citizen, soldier. 😉 He was all that and a beer. [http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/139/1382](http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/139/1382) ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2010, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/60 "2010-02-13T05:45:10Z")
Elvis Presley-2 votes Richard Nixon-2 votes Daniel Bliss-2 votes Carrie Chapman Catt-2 votes Jim Henson-2 votes [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423.md?page=4)