# Greatest American elimination game (game thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 10, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423 "2010-02-10T15:08:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/121 "2010-02-18T14:24:43Z")
I’ve already spoken up in favor of one John (Marshall) and, although it’s probably futile, I’ll now do so for another (Kennedy). JFK inspired a generation to public service. He was a decorated naval hero and a Pulitzer Prize winner. He firmly committed the Federal government to the cause of civil rights even though it hurt him politically in the previously Solid (Democratic) South. He stared down Big Steel. He established the Peace Corps and boldly set the nation on course for a Moon landing by the end of the decade. He cut taxes and sparked an economic boom. He brilliantly handled the Cuban Missile Crisis. He saw to the ratification of the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty. He of course had many personal failings, but all in all I think Kennedy was one of the greatest Presidents of the 20th century. As I mentioned in the Presidential Elimination thread, if you want to read more about him, I’d recommend _The Essence of Decision_ by Graham Allison (the classic study of the Cuban Missile Crisis); _President Kennedy_ by Richard Reeves (a comprehensive but very readable overview of his administration from the perspective of 30-some years later); _Kennedy’s Wars_ by Lawrence Freedman (a British historian’s take on JFK’s diplomacy and military policies), and _A Thousand Days_ by Arthur M. Schlesinger Jr. (a fine contemporary account by JFK’s resident intellectual). Read any or all of them, and I think you’ll come away with a higher opinion of the man. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/122 "2010-02-18T14:56:57Z")
A few more votes for Chavez could save Marshall at least. Just saying. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/123 "2010-02-18T14:58:03Z")
Or for Carl Sagan. (What’s he still doing here?) ---
**Author:** ![Reloy3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c68b51/32.png) [@Reloy3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reloy3)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/124 "2010-02-18T15:18:40Z")
My votes: Richard Feynman Robert Frost (I disagree that he was the greatest American poet) Douglas MacArthur: WWII general (x5) Carl Sagan: Astronomer, science popularizer William Seward: Diplomat; bought Alaska (For his role in the Johnson impeachment) ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/125 "2010-02-18T15:42:23Z")
> [@ToeJam](#): > > 5 on Marshall Which Marshall, Chief Justice John or General George? ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/126 "2010-02-18T15:49:39Z")
Carl Sagan Carl Sagan Carl Sagan Carl Sagan Cesar Chavez Cesar Chavez Cesar Chavez Cesar Chavez Richard Feynman John F Kennedy I feel that Carl Sagan should not be in the running. And Cesar Chavez’s UFW promoted violence against those who would dare to cross the picket line, he also supported turning in undocumented workers who threatened to break his organizations strikes (but not those who agreed to unionize). ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/127 "2010-02-18T16:10:29Z")
Patton x4 Chamberlain x3 Feynman x3 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/128 "2010-02-18T16:39:23Z")
To avoid confusion, please use both first and last name in all votes. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/129 "2010-02-18T16:56:54Z")
I’m not sure why Richard Feynman is getting so many votes. In addition to his Nobel Prize-winning work on quantum electrodynamics, he was part of the Manhattan Project team at Los Alamos and was a member of the panel that investigated the Space Shuttle Challenger disaster (famously demonstrating that the O-rings did not work properly in cold temperatures by putting one in his water glass). He also was a pioneer in quantum computing and nanotechnology, one of the most celebrated teachers of physics in the world, and possibly the least stuffy scientist until Bill Nye the Science Guy. On the other hand, he was an awful bongo player. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/130 "2010-02-18T17:01:18Z")
I have eleven Central time, which is noon Eastern time. Tallying the results. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/131 "2010-02-18T17:05:03Z")
Incidentally, I think the OP needs to pronounce on one thing that might come up but hasn’t yet: unvotes/revotes - are votes final once they’ve been made in the thread (assuming they’re valid)? Or could someone seeking to save Kennedy in this last round have strategically shifted his votes if he’d wanted to? (Possibly the OP has already addressed this and I missed it). I’m in favor of votes being final once they’re cast; it gives some advantage to late voters (in that they can weight their votes according to their desired effect) but that’s balanced to some degree by early voters’ agenda-setting ability. Also, I’m going to endeavor to post one running tally about a day before voting closes and one on the morning of the last day. If I happen to be reading and someone requests it, I will try to post updated results at other times, but no guarantees. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/132 "2010-02-18T17:08:26Z")
And, the results: 1 Douglas MacArthur 19 2 Kurt Godel 11 2 Bruce Catton 11 2 Elvis Presley 11 2 Carl Sagan 11 6 Cesar Chavez 10 7 Carrie Chapman Catt 9 7 Willis Carrier 9 7 Richard Feynman 9 7 John F. Kennedy 9 Henry Bergh 8 James K. Polk 8 Joshua Chamberlain 8 George S. Patton 8 John Marshall 7 (or 2 and 5 for George Marshall) Tecumseh 6 J.P. Morgan 6 John Adams 5 Audie Murphy 4 Edward R. Murrow 4 Roger Williams 4 Leonard Bernstein 3 Aaron Copland 3 Philo Farnsworth 3 Robert Frost 3 Jim Thorpe 3 Albert Einstein 2 Ralph Waldo Emerson 2 John Franklin Enders 2 William Lloyd Garrison 2 Langston Hughes 2 Chief Joseph 2 Helen Keller 2 Jesse Owens 2 William Seward 2 Upton Sinclair 2 Harriet Tubman 2 John von Neumann 2 Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. Thomas Nast Mark Twain ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/133 "2010-02-18T17:09:28Z")
Many thanks, **Tom**. MacArthur through JFK are now, um, history. Any vote may be changed before the deadline for that round, as we did in the Presidential Elimination thread. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/134 "2010-02-18T17:12:11Z")
This was the most interesting day so far from a game-playing standpoint. A lot of different candidates were up for elimination at different times, and I ended up keeping a running tally as it was going on to see who was in or out at any given time. As it worked out, ToeJam’s ambiguous vote did not make a difference. I put us at 65 candidates remaining. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/135 "2010-02-18T17:17:20Z")
That leaves us with: John Adams: President, writer, statesman Susan B. Anthony: Suffrage activist Henry Bergh: Saved children, animals Leonard Bernstein: Composer, conductor, educator John Brown: Righteous, inspirational abolitionist Andrew Carnegie: Industrialist, philanthropist George Washington Carver: Agricultural botanist Joshua Chamberlain: Civil War hero Chief Joseph (Hin-mah-too-yah-lat-kekt): Leader, peacemaker, tactician Aaron Copland: Composer, musician Frederick Douglass: Abolitionist, orator Thomas Edison: Inventor, workaholic Albert Einstein: Scientist, activist Dwight D. Eisenhower: President, war hero Ralph Waldo Emerson: Philosopher, writer John Franklin Enders: Modern vaccines pioneer Philo Farnsworth: TV piorneer, inventor Benjamin Franklin: Scientist, statesman, inventor Robert Frost: Greatest American poet William Lloyd Garrison: Abolitionist, writer George Gershwin: Prolific, versatile composer Alexander Hamilton: Financier, economist, statesman Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.: Supreme Court Justice Langston Hughes: Harlem Renaissance poet Thomas Jefferson: President, Declaration writer Helen Keller: Redefined language, mind Martin Luther King Jr.: Preacher, orator, humanitarian Lewis and Clark (Meriwether and William, resp.): Louisiana Purchase explorers Abraham Lincoln: President, emancipator, writer James Madison: President, Framer, statesman George Marshall: General, diplomat, statesman John Marshall: Fourth Chief Justice J.P. Morgan: Financial giant, tycoon Audie Murphy: Decorated soldier, actor Edward R. Murrow: Broadcaster Thomas Nast: Editorial cartoonist, muckraker Jesse Owens: Famed Olympic athlete Thomas Paine: Political theorist, pamphleteer George S. Patton: WWII general, orator John J. Pershing: Top WWI general Edgar Allan Poe: Poet, writer, critic James K. Polk: President, statesman Jackie Robinson: Athlete, activist, inspiration Will Rogers: Humorist, social commentator Eleanor Roosevelt: Reformer, writer, advocate Franklin D. Roosevelt: President, reformer, statesman Theodore Roosevelt: President, conservationist, statesman Jonas Salk: Polio vaccine inventor William Seward: Diplomat; bought Alaska Upton Sinclair: Author, muckraker Sitting Bull: Indian leader, warrior Tecumseh: Indian leader, uniter Henry David Thoreau: Poet, naturalist, philosopher Jim Thorpe: Native American athlete Harry Truman: President, statesman Harriet Tubman: Civil rights advocate Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens): Humorist, “Huckleberry Finn” John von Neumann: Mathematician, scientist, polymath Earl Warren: Chief Justice, governor George Washington: President, general, statesman Daniel Webster: Orator, advocate, statesman Walt Whitman: Civil War poet Eli Whitney: Inventor, cotton gin Roger Williams: Statesman, religious leader Orville and Wilbur Wright: Aviation pioneers, inventors Same rules as to the next round of voting, which will conclude at noon EST on Washington’s Birthday, Mon. Feb. 22. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/136 "2010-02-18T17:20:42Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I’m not sure why Richard Feynman is getting so many votes. In addition to his Nobel Prize-winning work on quantum electrodynamics, he was part of the Manhattan Project team at Los Alamos and was a member of the panel that investigated the Space Shuttle Challenger disaster… He also was a pioneer in quantum computing and nanotechnology, one of the most celebrated teachers of physics in the world… Richard Feynman was surely a great genius, extremely colorful character, and deserves his rich place in American folklore. However… Fermi, Teller and Oppenheimer (all three Americans who weren’t even nominated) contributed much more to Manhattan. The O-Ring problem was already known to NASA engineers (they informed Feynman of it). His influence on nanotechnology, and perhaps quantum computing, is exaggerated. Nevertheless I’d agree Feynman’s _much_ more deserving than many still around. _George Patton???_ Is that the name of John Marshall’s little-known law clerk? Or the guy who built up Ford Motor Company but let Henry Ford take the credit? Or is he just the General so renowned for his compassion toward battle-stressed soldiers? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/137 "2010-02-18T17:23:32Z")
The category-by-category list, updated for round 4: (I corrected an earlier oversight by adding George Marshall to the list of military candidates) Politicians and activists: US Presidents and other political leaders: Presidents (10/13): John Adams: President, writer, statesman Dwight D. Eisenhower: President, war hero [del]Andrew Jackson: President, general, populist[/del] Thomas Jefferson: President, Declaration writer [del]John F. Kennedy: President, “New Frontier”[/del] Abraham Lincoln: President, emancipator, writer James Madison: President, Framer, statesman [del]Richard Nixon: President, lawyer, author[/del] James K Polk: President, statesman Franklin D. Roosevelt: President, reformer, statesman Theodore Roosevelt: President, conservationist, statesman Harry Truman: President, statesman George Washington: President, general, statesman Other leaders (9): Benjamin Franklin: Scientist, statesman, inventor Alexander Hamilton: Financier, economist, statesman Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.: Supreme Court Justice George Marshall: General, diplomat, statesman John Marshall: Fourth Chief Justice William Seward: Diplomat; bought Alaska Earl Warren: Chief Justice, governor Daniel Webster: Orator, advocate, statesman Roger Williams: Statesman, religious leader Native American leaders (3): Chief Joseph (Hin-mah-too-yah-lat-kekt): Leader, peacemaker, tactician Sitting Bull: Indian leader, warrior Tecumseh: Indian leader, uniter Activists: Women’s rights/suffrage (1/3): Susan B. Anthony: Suffrage activist [del]Carrie Chapman Catt: Women’s rights suffragist[/del] [del]Margaret Sanger: Birth-control pioneer[/del] Civil Rights/Abolitionists (8/10): John Brown: Righteous, inspirational abolitionist [del]Cesar Chavez: Civil rights activist[/del] Frederick Douglass: Abolitionist, orator William Lloyd Garrison: Abolitionist, writer Langston Hughes: Harlem Renaissance poet Martin Luther King Jr.: Preacher, orator, humanitarian Jackie Robinson: Athlete, activist, inspiration Eleanor Roosevelt: Reformer, writer, advocate Harriet Tubman: Civil rights advocate [del]Malcolm X: Civil rights leader[/del] Other Activists (4/5): Henry Bergh: Saved children, animals [del]Daniel Bliss: Educator, AUB founder[/del] Thomas Nast: Editorial cartoonist, muckraker Thomas Paine: Political theorist, pamphleteer Upton Sinclair: Author, muckraker Scientists and inventors (10/15): [del]Willis Carrier: Air conditioning pioneer[/del] George Washington Carver: Agricultural botanist Thomas Edison: Inventor, workaholic Albert Einstein: Scientist, activist John Franklin Enders: Modern vaccines pioneer Philo Farnsworth: TV piorneer, inventor [del]Richard Feynman: Physicist, Renaissance man[/del] Benjamin Franklin: Scientist, statesman, inventor [del]Kurt Gödel: Mathematician, incompleteness theorem[/del] [del]Carl Sagan: Astronomer, science popularizer[/del] Jonas Salk: Polio vaccine inventor [del]Nikola Tesla: Inventor, engineer[/del] John von Neumann: Mathematician, scientist, polymath Eli Whitney: Inventor, cotton gin Orville and Wilbur Wright: Aviation pioneers, inventors Businessmen and industrialists (3/7): [del]P.T. Barnum: World’s greatest showman[/del] Andrew Carnegie: Industrialist, philanthropist [del]Walt Disney: Animator, entrepreneur, icon[/del] Thomas Edison: Inventor, workaholic [del]Henry Ford: Inventor, industrialist, philanthropist[/del] J.P. Morgan: Financial giant, tycoon [del]John D. Rockefeller: Billionaire, philanthropist[/del] Generals and soldiers (6/8): Joshua Chamberlain: Civil War hero Dwight D. Eisenhower: President, war hero [del]Andrew Jackson: President, general, populist[/del] [del]Douglas MacArthur: WWII general[/del] George Marshall: General, diplomat, statesman Audie Murphy: Decorated soldier, actor George S. Patton: WWII general, orator John J. Pershing: Top WWI general Writers (11/17): [del]Ambrose Bierce: Author, journalist, satirist, critic[/del] [del]James Branch Cabell: Author, marriage proponent[/del] [del]Bruce Catton: Civil War historian[/del] Ralph Waldo Emerson: Philosopher, writer Robert Frost: Greatest American poet [del]Robert Heinlein: Science fiction author[/del] Langston Hughes: Harlem Renaissance poet Helen Keller: Redefined language, mind [del]H.P. Lovecraft: Horror writer[/del] Thomas Paine: Political theorist, pamphleteer Edgar Allan Poe: Poet, writer, critic Will Rogers: Humorist, social commentator [del]Shel Silverstein: Author, humorist[/del] Upton Sinclair: Author, muckraker Henry David Thoreau: Poet, naturalist, philosopher Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens): Humorist, “Huckleberry Finn” Walt Whitman: Civil War poet “Show biz” (1/7): [del]Lucille Ball: Actress, comedian, redhead[/del] [del]P.T. Barnum: World’s greatest showman[/del] [del]Walt Disney: Animator, entrepreneur, icon[/del] [del]Jim Henson: Beloved children’s programmer[/del] [del]Marilyn Monroe: Legendary film star[/del] Edward R Murrow: Broadcaster [del]Orson Welles: Writer, director, actor[/del] Musicians and composers (3/6): Leonard Bernstein: Composer, conductor, educator [del]John Coltrane: Musician, composer[/del] Aaron Copland: Composer, musician George Gershwin: Prolific, versatile composer [del]Jimi Hendrix, musician and activist[/del] [del]Elvis Presley, rock-and-roller[/del] Comics (1/3): [del]Walt Kelly: “Pogo” creator, humorist[/del] [del]Jack Kirby: Comics pioneer[/del] Thomas Nast: Editorial cartoonist, muckraker Athletes (3/5): Jesse Owens: Famed Olympic athlete Jackie Robinson: Athlete, activist, inspiration [del]Babe Ruth: Legendary baseball icon[/del] Jim Thorpe: Native American athlete [del]Babe Zaharias: Greatest female athlete[/del] Miscellaneous (1/3): Lewis and Clark (Meriwether and William, resp.): Louisiana Purchase explorers [del]Charles Lindbergh: Aviator, American hero[/del] [del]Frank Lloyd Wright: Prairie School architect[/del] ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/138 "2010-02-18T17:25:40Z")
My votes: Andrew Carnegie 5 (If Cesar Chavez goes out for violence related to labor disputes, how do Carnegie and his Pinkertons stay in?) George S. Patton 2 (Too many World War II generals, and Patton was the least accomplished) Philo T. Farnsworth 1 Jesse Owens 1 Jim Thorpe 1 ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/139 "2010-02-18T17:50:22Z")
Jackie Robinson x2 Audie Murphy x2 Albert Einstein x2 Philo Farnsworth x2 Leonard Bernstein x2 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/140 "2010-02-18T17:50:54Z")
Andrew Carnegie x5 - for the reasons **Tom** states (although my hometown has a very nice Carnegie Library). Thomas Jefferson x5 - a hypocrite (on slavery and state’s rights) and a liar (worked to undermine Washington’s government while serving in his Cabinet, including funding an opposition newspaper); gave the stiff arm to Adams when given the chance as VP to work with him in a bipartisan manner. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423.md?page=8)