None of the three Amerindians were ever American citizens nor were they considered Americans nor did they consider themselves Americans.
Let’s whack:
Lucille Ball
Franklin D. Roosevelt (2 votes)
Malcolm X (2 votes)
Upton Sinclair
Helen Keller
Jimi Hendrix
Cesar Chavez (2 votes)
In the setup thread, bibliophage wrote,
I see Tecumseh and Sitting Bull mentioned. I considered them, along with Crazy Horse, for my list but I wasn’t sure if they qualified; As far as I know they weren’t citizens of the U.S. Can we get a ruling?
And I replied,
Yes, I will accept any Native American nominations for this thread, even if they were not U.S. citizens under the law at the time.
Malcolm X’s gone already. Thankfully.
Carrie Chapman Catt – 3
Margaret Sanger – 1
Jackie Robinson – 1
Eleanor Roosevelt – 1
Harriet Tubman – 1
Walt Disney – 1
Helen Keller – 1
Mark Twain – 1
Daniel Bliss – not well-known enough
Willis Carrier – I like air conditioning, but…
Richard Nixon – greatest contribution was resigining
PT Barnum – abused animals and ripped off humans
Andrew Jackson – tough call, he was hugely influential, but practically genocidal
JP Morgan – business already has enough influence in this country
John Coltrane – I can’t see a musician going all the way, but not many people are voting against them; Coltrane is (barely) the lesser light of the musicians left
John D. Rockefeller – here’s a dime, now get off our list
Douglas MacArthur – WWII reputation inflated (later impressive at Inchon), self-promoting, loss pf Philippines largely his fault; but it’s crushing the Bonus Army that earns him my black mark
Jonas Salk – if there’s a vote against Enders, there should be one against Salk, who more or less stole credit for Enders’ work
I’ll probably be going after insignificant folks soon enough, but we still have a few that I would consider actively bad, here. Put me down for five each for Rockefeller, for his destructive monopolistic business practices, and for Disney, for his McCarthyism.
Or to be explicit about it,
John D. Rockefeller
John D. Rockefeller
John D. Rockefeller
John D. Rockefeller
John D. Rockefeller
Walt Disney
Walt Disney
Walt Disney
Walt Disney
Walt Disney
Dick Nixon- 5
Andy Jackson- 5
I’m guessing that if you haven’t voted yet, you can probably save any votes you would have cast for Nixon for someone else. I’m pretty sure he’s beyond saving at this point.
Cool, that should finish off John D, Nixon appears dead and Andrew Jackson too.
Second-round voting is now closed. I’ll post the tallies later today.
This was not a good time to be an entertainer named Walt. The top bracket, from Nixon (well-deserved, and good riddance) to Orson Welles, is now eliminated. Please correct me if I made any errors since Tom Scud’s previous tally:
1 Richard Nixon 31
2 Andrew Jackson 16
3 P.T. Barnum 14
4 John D. Rockefeller 12
5 Walt Kelly 10
6 Walt Disney 9
7 Jim Henson 8
7 Frank Lloyd Wright 8
7 Daniel Bliss 8
8 Nikola Tesla 7
8 John Coltrane 7
8 Margaret Sanger 7
9 Babe Ruth 6
9 Orson Welles 6
John Adams 5
George Patton 5
Tecumseh 5
Carrie Chapman Catt 5
Carl Sagan 4
Bruce Catton 4
Langston Hughes 3
Joshua Chamberlain 3
Cesar Chavez 3
Helen Keller 3
Henry Bergh 2
Richard Feynman 2
Robert Frost 2
Jesse Owens 2
Elvis Presley 2
Franklin D. Roosevelt 2
John Franklin Elders
George Gershwin
Kurt Godel
John F. Kennedy
Audie Murphy
Jim Thorpe
Walt Whitman
Lucille Ball
Upton Sinclair
Jimi Hendrix
Jackie Robinson
Eleanor Roosvelt
Harriet Tubman
Mark Twain
Willis Carrier
J.P. Morgan
Douglas MacArthur
Jonas Salk
The third round of voting begins now, and will run through noon EST on Thurs. Feb. 18.
Same rules as the second round: Each of us again has ten votes, but may use no more than five votes against any individual. Presidents are not immune. No vote trading, please. Let’s consider all of the nominees on their merits.
My 3rd round eliminees:
Willis Carrier
Carrie Chapman Catt
Bruce Catton
Joshua Chamberlain
Aaron Copland
Kurt Godel
J.P. Morgan
Edward R. Murrow
Thomas Nast
James K. Polk
Tough to have a last name that begins with “C”.
Cesar Chavez 5
Douglas MacArthur 5 (over-reaching tin-plated general with delusions of godhood)
So you eliminated Babe Ruth. Babe Fricking Ruth! Damn.
John F. Kennedy
Bruce Catton
Joshua Chamberlain
John Adams
John Adams
John Adams
John Adams
John Adams
Elvis Presley
Elvis Presley
Five votes for John F. Kennedy (Revenge for elimination of Nixon)
Five votes for Tecumseh (Actually allied with Britain in War of 1812)
As it happens, there are exactly ten people left on the list for whom I couldn’t really tell you who they are, which seems pretty un-great to me. So I’ll vote one each for
Henry Bergh
Willis Carrier
Carrie Chapman Catt
Bruce Catton
Joshua Chamberlain
John Franklin Enders
William Lloyd Garrison
John Marshall
Edward R Murrow
Roger Williams
I like the way you think (apart from Murrow, whom you really ought to know). So:
Henry Bergh
Willis Carrier
Carrie Chapman Catt
Bruce Catton
Joshua Chamberlain
John Franklin Enders
William Lloyd Garrison
John Marshall
Roger Williams
and
Jimi Hendrix, who was a great musician but not necessarily the greatest American.
On two of the above: William Lloyd Garrison was probably the leading white abolitionist. He ran abolitionist newspapers, organized, gave speeches, the whole schmear. He’s absolutely a great American.
I nominated Roger Williams, so I’m obviously partial to him. As most of you know, the colonies established by the pilgrims did not offer religious freedom: one had to be a Calvinist Puritan or face serious sanction. Williams fervently disagreed with this, arguing that the soul had must have liberty. He founded Rhode Island (well, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations if you want to be pedantic), paying the Indians a relatively fair price for the land (which is probably why RI is so small) and established freedom of religion there. Today, Roger Williams is widely considered the author of religious freedom in America. That’s who he was, and that’s why you shouldn’t vote to eliminate him.
The category-by-category list, updated for round 3:
Politicians and activists:
US Presidents and other political leaders:
Presidents (11/13):
John Adams: President, writer, statesman
Dwight D. Eisenhower: President, war hero
[del]Andrew Jackson: President, general, populist[/del]
Thomas Jefferson: President, Declaration writer
John F. Kennedy: President, “New Frontier”
Abraham Lincoln: President, emancipator, writer
James Madison: President, Framer, statesman
[del]Richard Nixon: President, lawyer, author[/del]
James K Polk: President, statesman
Franklin D. Roosevelt: President, reformer, statesman
Theodore Roosevelt: President, conservationist, statesman
Harry Truman: President, statesman
George Washington: President, general, statesman
Other leaders (9):
Benjamin Franklin: Scientist, statesman, inventor
Alexander Hamilton: Financier, economist, statesman
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.: Supreme Court Justice
George Marshall: General, diplomat, statesman
John Marshall: Fourth Chief Justice
William Seward: Diplomat; bought Alaska
Earl Warren: Chief Justice, governor
Daniel Webster: Orator, advocate, statesman
Roger Williams: Statesman, religious leader
Native American leaders (3):
Chief Joseph (Hin-mah-too-yah-lat-kekt): Leader, peacemaker, tactician
Sitting Bull: Indian leader, warrior
Tecumseh: Indian leader, uniter
Activists:
Women’s rights/suffrage (2/3):
Susan B. Anthony: Suffrage activist
Carrie Chapman Catt: Women’s rights suffragist
[del]Margaret Sanger: Birth-control pioneer[/del]
Civil Rights/Abolitionists (9/10):
John Brown: Righteous, inspirational abolitionist
Cesar Chavez: Civil rights activist
Frederick Douglass: Abolitionist, orator
William Lloyd Garrison: Abolitionist, writer
Langston Hughes: Harlem Renaissance poet
Martin Luther King Jr.: Preacher, orator, humanitarian
Jackie Robinson: Athlete, activist, inspiration
Eleanor Roosevelt: Reformer, writer, advocate
Harriet Tubman: Civil rights advocate
[del]Malcolm X: Civil rights leader[/del]
Other Activists (4/5):
Henry Bergh: Saved children, animals
[del]Daniel Bliss: Educator, AUB founder[/del]
Thomas Nast: Editorial cartoonist, muckraker
Thomas Paine: Political theorist, pamphleteer
Upton Sinclair: Author, muckraker
Scientists and inventors (14/15):
Willis Carrier: Air conditioning pioneer
George Washington Carver: Agricultural botanist
Thomas Edison: Inventor, workaholic
Albert Einstein: Scientist, activist
John Franklin Enders: Modern vaccines pioneer
Philo Farnsworth: TV piorneer, inventor
Richard Feynman: Physicist, Renaissance man
Benjamin Franklin: Scientist, statesman, inventor
Kurt Gödel: Mathematician, incompleteness theorem
Carl Sagan: Astronomer, science popularizer
Jonas Salk: Polio vaccine inventor
[del]Nikola Tesla: Inventor, engineer[/del]
John von Neumann: Mathematician, scientist, polymath
Eli Whitney: Inventor, cotton gin
Orville and Wilbur Wright: Aviation pioneers, inventors
Businessmen and industrialists (3/7):
[del]P.T. Barnum: World’s greatest showman[/del]
Andrew Carnegie: Industrialist, philanthropist
[del]Walt Disney: Animator, entrepreneur, icon[/del]
Thomas Edison: Inventor, workaholic
[del]Henry Ford: Inventor, industrialist, philanthropist[/del]
J.P. Morgan: Financial giant, tycoon
[del]John D. Rockefeller: Billionaire, philanthropist[/del]
Generals and soldiers (7):
Joshua Chamberlain: Civil War hero
Dwight D. Eisenhower: President, war hero
Andrew Jackson: President, general, populist
Douglas MacArthur: WWII general
Audie Murphy: Decorated soldier, actor
George S. Patton: WWII general, orator
John J. Pershing: Top WWI general
Writers (12/17):
[del]Ambrose Bierce: Author, journalist, satirist, critic[/del]
[del]James Branch Cabell: Author, marriage proponent[/del]
Bruce Catton: Civil War historian
Ralph Waldo Emerson: Philosopher, writer
Robert Frost: Greatest American poet
[del]Robert Heinlein: Science fiction author[/del]
Langston Hughes: Harlem Renaissance poet
Helen Keller: Redefined language, mind
[del]H.P. Lovecraft: Horror writer[/del]
Thomas Paine: Political theorist, pamphleteer
Edgar Allan Poe: Poet, writer, critic
Will Rogers: Humorist, social commentator
[del]Shel Silverstein: Author, humorist[/del]
Upton Sinclair: Author, muckraker
Henry David Thoreau: Poet, naturalist, philosopher
Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens): Humorist, “Huckleberry Finn”
Walt Whitman: Civil War poet
“Show biz” (1/7):
[del]Lucille Ball: Actress, comedian, redhead[/del]
[del]P.T. Barnum: World’s greatest showman[/del]
[del]Walt Disney: Animator, entrepreneur, icon[/del]
[del]Jim Henson: Beloved children’s programmer[/del]
[del]Marilyn Monroe: Legendary film star[/del]
Edward R Murrow: Broadcaster
[del]Orson Welles: Writer, director, actor[/del]
Musicians and composers (4/6):
Leonard Bernstein: Composer, conductor, educator
[del]John Coltrane: Musician, composer[/del]
Aaron Copland: Composer, musician
George Gershwin: Prolific, versatile composer
[del]Jimi Hendrix, musician and activist[/del]
Elvis Presley, rock-and-roller
Comics (1/3):
[del]Walt Kelly: “Pogo” creator, humorist[/del]
[del]Jack Kirby: Comics pioneer[/del]
Thomas Nast: Editorial cartoonist, muckraker
Athletes (3/5):
Jesse Owens: Famed Olympic athlete
Jackie Robinson: Athlete, activist, inspiration
[del]Babe Ruth: Legendary baseball icon[/del]
Jim Thorpe: Native American athlete
[del]Babe Zaharias: Greatest female athlete[/del]
Miscellaneous (1/3):
Lewis and Clark (Meriwether and William, resp.): Louisiana Purchase explorers
[del]Charles Lindbergh: Aviator, American hero[/del]
[del]Frank Lloyd Wright: Prairie School architect[/del]