Greatest American elimination game (game thread)

The Game Room
121

I’ve already spoken up in favor of one John (Marshall) and, although it’s probably futile, I’ll now do so for another (Kennedy).

JFK inspired a generation to public service. He was a decorated naval hero and a Pulitzer Prize winner. He firmly committed the Federal government to the cause of civil rights even though it hurt him politically in the previously Solid (Democratic) South. He stared down Big Steel. He established the Peace Corps and boldly set the nation on course for a Moon landing by the end of the decade. He cut taxes and sparked an economic boom. He brilliantly handled the Cuban Missile Crisis. He saw to the ratification of the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty. He of course had many personal failings, but all in all I think Kennedy was one of the greatest Presidents of the 20th century.

As I mentioned in the Presidential Elimination thread, if you want to read more about him, I’d recommend The Essence of Decision by Graham Allison (the classic study of the Cuban Missile Crisis); President Kennedy by Richard Reeves (a comprehensive but very readable overview of his administration from the perspective of 30-some years later); Kennedy’s Wars by Lawrence Freedman (a British historian’s take on JFK’s diplomacy and military policies), and A Thousand Days by Arthur M. Schlesinger Jr. (a fine contemporary account by JFK’s resident intellectual). Read any or all of them, and I think you’ll come away with a higher opinion of the man.

122

A few more votes for Chavez could save Marshall at least. Just saying.

123

Or for Carl Sagan. (What’s he still doing here?)

124

My votes:

Richard Feynman
Robert Frost (I disagree that he was the greatest American poet)
Douglas MacArthur: WWII general (x5)
Carl Sagan: Astronomer, science popularizer
William Seward: Diplomat; bought Alaska (For his role in the Johnson impeachment)

125

Which Marshall, Chief Justice John or General George?

126

Carl Sagan
Carl Sagan
Carl Sagan
Carl Sagan
Cesar Chavez
Cesar Chavez
Cesar Chavez
Cesar Chavez
Richard Feynman
John F Kennedy

I feel that Carl Sagan should not be in the running. And Cesar Chavez’s UFW promoted violence against those who would dare to cross the picket line, he also supported turning in undocumented workers who threatened to break his organizations strikes (but not those who agreed to unionize).

127

Patton x4
Chamberlain x3
Feynman x3

128

To avoid confusion, please use both first and last name in all votes.

129

I’m not sure why Richard Feynman is getting so many votes. In addition to his Nobel Prize-winning work on quantum electrodynamics, he was part of the Manhattan Project team at Los Alamos and was a member of the panel that investigated the Space Shuttle Challenger disaster (famously demonstrating that the O-rings did not work properly in cold temperatures by putting one in his water glass). He also was a pioneer in quantum computing and nanotechnology, one of the most celebrated teachers of physics in the world, and possibly the least stuffy scientist until Bill Nye the Science Guy.

On the other hand, he was an awful bongo player.

130

I have eleven Central time, which is noon Eastern time. Tallying the results.

131

Incidentally, I think the OP needs to pronounce on one thing that might come up but hasn’t yet: unvotes/revotes - are votes final once they’ve been made in the thread (assuming they’re valid)? Or could someone seeking to save Kennedy in this last round have strategically shifted his votes if he’d wanted to? (Possibly the OP has already addressed this and I missed it).

I’m in favor of votes being final once they’re cast; it gives some advantage to late voters (in that they can weight their votes according to their desired effect) but that’s balanced to some degree by early voters’ agenda-setting ability.

Also, I’m going to endeavor to post one running tally about a day before voting closes and one on the morning of the last day. If I happen to be reading and someone requests it, I will try to post updated results at other times, but no guarantees.

132

And, the results:

1 Douglas MacArthur 19
2 Kurt Godel 11
2 Bruce Catton 11
2 Elvis Presley 11
2 Carl Sagan 11
6 Cesar Chavez 10
7 Carrie Chapman Catt 9
7 Willis Carrier 9
7 Richard Feynman 9
7 John F. Kennedy 9

Henry Bergh 8
James K. Polk 8
Joshua Chamberlain 8
George S. Patton 8

John Marshall 7 (or 2 and 5 for George Marshall)

Tecumseh 6
J.P. Morgan 6

John Adams 5

Audie Murphy 4
Edward R. Murrow 4
Roger Williams 4

Leonard Bernstein 3
Aaron Copland 3
Philo Farnsworth 3
Robert Frost 3
Jim Thorpe 3

Albert Einstein 2
Ralph Waldo Emerson 2
John Franklin Enders 2
William Lloyd Garrison 2
Langston Hughes 2
Chief Joseph 2
Helen Keller 2
Jesse Owens 2
William Seward 2
Upton Sinclair 2
Harriet Tubman 2
John von Neumann 2

Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
Thomas Nast
Mark Twain

133

Many thanks, Tom. MacArthur through JFK are now, um, history.

Any vote may be changed before the deadline for that round, as we did in the Presidential Elimination thread.

134

This was the most interesting day so far from a game-playing standpoint. A lot of different candidates were up for elimination at different times, and I ended up keeping a running tally as it was going on to see who was in or out at any given time.

As it worked out, ToeJam’s ambiguous vote did not make a difference.

I put us at 65 candidates remaining.

135

That leaves us with:

John Adams: President, writer, statesman
Susan B. Anthony: Suffrage activist
Henry Bergh: Saved children, animals
Leonard Bernstein: Composer, conductor, educator
John Brown: Righteous, inspirational abolitionist
Andrew Carnegie: Industrialist, philanthropist
George Washington Carver: Agricultural botanist
Joshua Chamberlain: Civil War hero
Chief Joseph (Hin-mah-too-yah-lat-kekt): Leader, peacemaker, tactician
Aaron Copland: Composer, musician
Frederick Douglass: Abolitionist, orator
Thomas Edison: Inventor, workaholic
Albert Einstein: Scientist, activist
Dwight D. Eisenhower: President, war hero
Ralph Waldo Emerson: Philosopher, writer
John Franklin Enders: Modern vaccines pioneer
Philo Farnsworth: TV piorneer, inventor
Benjamin Franklin: Scientist, statesman, inventor
Robert Frost: Greatest American poet
William Lloyd Garrison: Abolitionist, writer
George Gershwin: Prolific, versatile composer
Alexander Hamilton: Financier, economist, statesman
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.: Supreme Court Justice
Langston Hughes: Harlem Renaissance poet
Thomas Jefferson: President, Declaration writer
Helen Keller: Redefined language, mind
Martin Luther King Jr.: Preacher, orator, humanitarian
Lewis and Clark (Meriwether and William, resp.): Louisiana Purchase explorers
Abraham Lincoln: President, emancipator, writer
James Madison: President, Framer, statesman
George Marshall: General, diplomat, statesman
John Marshall: Fourth Chief Justice
J.P. Morgan: Financial giant, tycoon
Audie Murphy: Decorated soldier, actor
Edward R. Murrow: Broadcaster
Thomas Nast: Editorial cartoonist, muckraker
Jesse Owens: Famed Olympic athlete
Thomas Paine: Political theorist, pamphleteer
George S. Patton: WWII general, orator
John J. Pershing: Top WWI general
Edgar Allan Poe: Poet, writer, critic
James K. Polk: President, statesman
Jackie Robinson: Athlete, activist, inspiration
Will Rogers: Humorist, social commentator
Eleanor Roosevelt: Reformer, writer, advocate
Franklin D. Roosevelt: President, reformer, statesman
Theodore Roosevelt: President, conservationist, statesman
Jonas Salk: Polio vaccine inventor
William Seward: Diplomat; bought Alaska
Upton Sinclair: Author, muckraker
Sitting Bull: Indian leader, warrior
Tecumseh: Indian leader, uniter
Henry David Thoreau: Poet, naturalist, philosopher
Jim Thorpe: Native American athlete
Harry Truman: President, statesman
Harriet Tubman: Civil rights advocate
Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens): Humorist, “Huckleberry Finn”
John von Neumann: Mathematician, scientist, polymath
Earl Warren: Chief Justice, governor
George Washington: President, general, statesman
Daniel Webster: Orator, advocate, statesman
Walt Whitman: Civil War poet
Eli Whitney: Inventor, cotton gin
Roger Williams: Statesman, religious leader
Orville and Wilbur Wright: Aviation pioneers, inventors

Same rules as to the next round of voting, which will conclude at noon EST on Washington’s Birthday, Mon. Feb. 22.

136

Richard Feynman was surely a great genius, extremely colorful character, and deserves his rich place in American folklore. However…

Fermi, Teller and Oppenheimer (all three Americans who weren’t even nominated) contributed much more to Manhattan. The O-Ring problem was already known to NASA engineers (they informed Feynman of it). His influence on nanotechnology, and perhaps quantum computing, is exaggerated.

Nevertheless I’d agree Feynman’s much more deserving than many still around. George Patton??? Is that the name of John Marshall’s little-known law clerk? Or the guy who built up Ford Motor Company but let Henry Ford take the credit? Or is he just the General so renowned for his compassion toward battle-stressed soldiers?

137

The category-by-category list, updated for round 4:
(I corrected an earlier oversight by adding George Marshall to the list of military candidates)

Politicians and activists:

US Presidents and other political leaders:

Presidents (10/13):

John Adams: President, writer, statesman
Dwight D. Eisenhower: President, war hero
[del]Andrew Jackson: President, general, populist[/del]
Thomas Jefferson: President, Declaration writer
[del]John F. Kennedy: President, “New Frontier”[/del]
Abraham Lincoln: President, emancipator, writer
James Madison: President, Framer, statesman
[del]Richard Nixon: President, lawyer, author[/del]
James K Polk: President, statesman
Franklin D. Roosevelt: President, reformer, statesman
Theodore Roosevelt: President, conservationist, statesman
Harry Truman: President, statesman
George Washington: President, general, statesman

Other leaders (9):

Benjamin Franklin: Scientist, statesman, inventor
Alexander Hamilton: Financier, economist, statesman
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.: Supreme Court Justice
George Marshall: General, diplomat, statesman
John Marshall: Fourth Chief Justice
William Seward: Diplomat; bought Alaska
Earl Warren: Chief Justice, governor
Daniel Webster: Orator, advocate, statesman
Roger Williams: Statesman, religious leader

Native American leaders (3):

Chief Joseph (Hin-mah-too-yah-lat-kekt): Leader, peacemaker, tactician
Sitting Bull: Indian leader, warrior
Tecumseh: Indian leader, uniter

Activists:

Women’s rights/suffrage (1/3):

Susan B. Anthony: Suffrage activist
[del]Carrie Chapman Catt: Women’s rights suffragist[/del]
[del]Margaret Sanger: Birth-control pioneer[/del]

Civil Rights/Abolitionists (8/10):

John Brown: Righteous, inspirational abolitionist
[del]Cesar Chavez: Civil rights activist[/del]
Frederick Douglass: Abolitionist, orator
William Lloyd Garrison: Abolitionist, writer
Langston Hughes: Harlem Renaissance poet
Martin Luther King Jr.: Preacher, orator, humanitarian
Jackie Robinson: Athlete, activist, inspiration
Eleanor Roosevelt: Reformer, writer, advocate
Harriet Tubman: Civil rights advocate
[del]Malcolm X: Civil rights leader[/del]

Other Activists (4/5):

Henry Bergh: Saved children, animals
[del]Daniel Bliss: Educator, AUB founder[/del]
Thomas Nast: Editorial cartoonist, muckraker
Thomas Paine: Political theorist, pamphleteer
Upton Sinclair: Author, muckraker

Scientists and inventors (10/15):

[del]Willis Carrier: Air conditioning pioneer[/del]
George Washington Carver: Agricultural botanist
Thomas Edison: Inventor, workaholic
Albert Einstein: Scientist, activist
John Franklin Enders: Modern vaccines pioneer
Philo Farnsworth: TV piorneer, inventor
[del]Richard Feynman: Physicist, Renaissance man[/del]
Benjamin Franklin: Scientist, statesman, inventor
[del]Kurt Gödel: Mathematician, incompleteness theorem[/del]
[del]Carl Sagan: Astronomer, science popularizer[/del]
Jonas Salk: Polio vaccine inventor
[del]Nikola Tesla: Inventor, engineer[/del]
John von Neumann: Mathematician, scientist, polymath
Eli Whitney: Inventor, cotton gin
Orville and Wilbur Wright: Aviation pioneers, inventors

Businessmen and industrialists (3/7):

[del]P.T. Barnum: World’s greatest showman[/del]
Andrew Carnegie: Industrialist, philanthropist
[del]Walt Disney: Animator, entrepreneur, icon[/del]
Thomas Edison: Inventor, workaholic
[del]Henry Ford: Inventor, industrialist, philanthropist[/del]
J.P. Morgan: Financial giant, tycoon
[del]John D. Rockefeller: Billionaire, philanthropist[/del]

Generals and soldiers (6/8):

Joshua Chamberlain: Civil War hero
Dwight D. Eisenhower: President, war hero
[del]Andrew Jackson: President, general, populist[/del]
[del]Douglas MacArthur: WWII general[/del]
George Marshall: General, diplomat, statesman
Audie Murphy: Decorated soldier, actor
George S. Patton: WWII general, orator
John J. Pershing: Top WWI general

Writers (11/17):

[del]Ambrose Bierce: Author, journalist, satirist, critic[/del]
[del]James Branch Cabell: Author, marriage proponent[/del]
[del]Bruce Catton: Civil War historian[/del]
Ralph Waldo Emerson: Philosopher, writer
Robert Frost: Greatest American poet
[del]Robert Heinlein: Science fiction author[/del]
Langston Hughes: Harlem Renaissance poet
Helen Keller: Redefined language, mind
[del]H.P. Lovecraft: Horror writer[/del]
Thomas Paine: Political theorist, pamphleteer
Edgar Allan Poe: Poet, writer, critic
Will Rogers: Humorist, social commentator
[del]Shel Silverstein: Author, humorist[/del]
Upton Sinclair: Author, muckraker
Henry David Thoreau: Poet, naturalist, philosopher
Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens): Humorist, “Huckleberry Finn”
Walt Whitman: Civil War poet

“Show biz” (1/7):

[del]Lucille Ball: Actress, comedian, redhead[/del]
[del]P.T. Barnum: World’s greatest showman[/del]
[del]Walt Disney: Animator, entrepreneur, icon[/del]
[del]Jim Henson: Beloved children’s programmer[/del]
[del]Marilyn Monroe: Legendary film star[/del]
Edward R Murrow: Broadcaster
[del]Orson Welles: Writer, director, actor[/del]

Musicians and composers (3/6):

Leonard Bernstein: Composer, conductor, educator
[del]John Coltrane: Musician, composer[/del]
Aaron Copland: Composer, musician
George Gershwin: Prolific, versatile composer
[del]Jimi Hendrix, musician and activist[/del]
[del]Elvis Presley, rock-and-roller[/del]

Comics (1/3):

[del]Walt Kelly: “Pogo” creator, humorist[/del]
[del]Jack Kirby: Comics pioneer[/del]
Thomas Nast: Editorial cartoonist, muckraker

Athletes (3/5):

Jesse Owens: Famed Olympic athlete
Jackie Robinson: Athlete, activist, inspiration
[del]Babe Ruth: Legendary baseball icon[/del]
Jim Thorpe: Native American athlete
[del]Babe Zaharias: Greatest female athlete[/del]

Miscellaneous (1/3):

Lewis and Clark (Meriwether and William, resp.): Louisiana Purchase explorers
[del]Charles Lindbergh: Aviator, American hero[/del]
[del]Frank Lloyd Wright: Prairie School architect[/del]

138

My votes:

Andrew Carnegie 5 (If Cesar Chavez goes out for violence related to labor disputes, how do Carnegie and his Pinkertons stay in?)
George S. Patton 2 (Too many World War II generals, and Patton was the least accomplished)
Philo T. Farnsworth 1
Jesse Owens 1
Jim Thorpe 1

139

Jackie Robinson x2
Audie Murphy x2
Albert Einstein x2
Philo Farnsworth x2
Leonard Bernstein x2

140

Andrew Carnegie x5 - for the reasons Tom states (although my hometown has a very nice Carnegie Library).

Thomas Jefferson x5 - a hypocrite (on slavery and state’s rights) and a liar (worked to undermine Washington’s government while serving in his Cabinet, including funding an opposition newspaper); gave the stiff arm to Adams when given the chance as VP to work with him in a bipartisan manner.