# Greatest American novel? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 28, 2007, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719 "2007-06-28T01:50:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/1 "2007-06-28T01:50:54Z")
Inspired by this thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8723847#post8723847](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8723847#post8723847) , what’s the greatest American novel? I nominate _Catch-22_, and I suspect that may be the consensus. After all, what else is there? _The Great Gatsby_? Title character was a tool. Quit your whining and stop hitting on that guy’s wife, man. _Ethan Frome_? Please. The one slightly interesting moment in the story is the sleigh crash, which you get the impression takes place only slightly faster than walking pace. _Scarlet Letter_? I watched the movie. I couldn’t get past the first chapter of the book. Also, anyone nominating anything by Faulkner will be shot on sight. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/2 "2007-06-28T01:55:36Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Inspired by this thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8723847#post8723847](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8723847#post8723847) , what’s the greatest American novel? I nominate _Catch-22_, and I suspect that may be the consensus. [/quote] :rolleyes: Sure, no dispute here. > [@](#): > > After all, what else is there? > _The Great Gatsby_? Title character was a tool. Quit your whining and stop hitting on that guy’s wife, man. This is my nominee, and if the summary above is all you got out of the novel, I would suggest you’re not able to offer a nuanced and informed opinion on The Greatest American novel. ---
**Author:** ![BrassyPhrase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea666f/32.png) [@BrassyPhrase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrassyPhrase)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/3 "2007-06-28T02:00:04Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Inspired by this thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8723847#post8723847](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8723847#post8723847) , what’s the greatest American novel? I nominate _Catch-22_, and I suspect that may be the consensus. [/QUOTE] I say Huckleberry Finn. I “got” it when I was a kid and everytime I’ve read it since then–well, getting older and hopefully wiser? I’ve gotten it just a little bit more. Though Catch-22 is pretty damn great. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/4 "2007-06-28T02:12:17Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] :rolleyes: Sure, no dispute here. This is my nominee, and if the summary above is all you got out of the novel, I would suggest you’re not able to offer a nuanced and informed opinion on The Greatest American novel. [/QUOTE] Oh, I _get_ it. The problem here is that I didn’t care for it. Your suggestion is noted, incidentally- but if you really think I consider my OP to provide either a nuanced or informed opinion on any of those books, I’d like to introduce you to my good friend _whoosh_. Shake hands? I’m waiting until somebody actually makes a suggestion before commenting, in other words. Fair? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/5 "2007-06-28T02:17:03Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Oh, I _get_ it. The problem here is that I didn’t care for it. Your suggestion is noted, incidentally- but if you really think I consider my OP to provide either a nuanced or informed opinion on any of those books, I’d like to introduce you to my good friend _whoosh_. Shake hands? I’m waiting until somebody actually makes a suggestion before commenting, in other words. Fair? [/QUOTE] Yep, I bought the whoosh, hook, line, sinker, and the fishing pole as well! Fair enough - my bad. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/6 "2007-06-28T02:20:43Z")
Some good candidates in _Huckleberry Finn_ and _Catch-22_. _Finn_ is clearly the best American 19th century novel. (_Moby Dick_, the other major candidate is too digressive to really be a novel). But my choice for greatest American novel is John Barth’s _The Sot-Weed Factor_. As funny as _Catch-22_, and much, much bawdier, it’s a work of utter and sustained brilliance (even more so when you realize much of it is based on historical fact – including the sacred eggplant). _Catch-22_ is about war, whereas _The Sot-Weed Factor_ is about America, which should be the subject of a great American novel. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/7 "2007-06-28T02:21:43Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Yep, I bought the whoosh, hook, line, sinker, and the fishing pole as well! Fair enough - my bad. [/QUOTE] That’s alright. I intended for all three synopses (is that right? It doesn’t look right) to be tongue-in-cheek, but upon reflection the opinion I gave on _Ethan Frome_ is almost perfectly in line with what I dimly recollect thinking after I had to read it in 11th grade… ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/8 "2007-06-28T02:22:34Z")
One of the problems here in defining ‘greatest american novel’ is that what that would be changes radically with time. Each one could be the perfect one for its period. Colonial, Expansion, Rebellion, Gilded Age, WWI, Depression, WWII, Economic Prosperity, Crazy Years, Me, X, 21st. There’s a lot of ground to cover and what informs one period is lesser in another. I’d like to advance ‘The Kill A Mockingbird’ as a strong contender. But reading it changed my life at one point so I’m biased. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/9 "2007-06-28T02:25:15Z")
I’d say Huckleberry Finn is almost a given. Then, of course, there is To Kill a Mockingbird, which I like much more than anything by Mark Twain. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/10 "2007-06-28T02:26:03Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck] Some good candidates in _Huckleberry Finn_ and _Catch-22_. _Finn_ is clearly the best American 19th century novel. (_Moby Dick_, the other major candidate is too digressive to really be a novel). But my choice for greatest American novel is John Barth’s _The Sot-Weed Factor_. As funny as _Catch-22_, and much, much bawdier, it’s a work of utter and sustained brilliance (even more so when you realize much of it is based on historical fact – including the sacred eggplant). _Catch-22_ is about war, whereas _The Sot-Weed Factor_ is about America, which should be the subject of a great American novel. [/QUOTE] Er… I understand digressive to mean unfocused or even encyclopedic. 1. Why would you consider _Moby Dick_ thus, and 2. In what way is it un-novel-like? I was hoping nobody would mention _The Bonfire of the Vanities_ because I haven’t read it. Now I see I ought to have hoped nobody would mention _The Sot-Weed Factor_ because I’ve never heard of it. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/11 "2007-06-28T02:27:42Z")
[QUOTE=Jonathan Chance] One of the problems here in defining ‘greatest american novel’ is that what that would be changes radically with time. Each one could be the perfect one for its period. Colonial, Expansion, Rebellion, Gilded Age, WWI, Depression, WWII, Economic Prosperity, Crazy Years, Me, X, 21st. There’s a lot of ground to cover and what informs one period is lesser in another. [/QUOTE] You’re overthinking my OP. I don’t mean “what novel best encompasses America?”, so much as “what is the best book written by an American?” ---
**Author:** ![TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/51bf81/32.png) [@TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/12 "2007-06-28T02:37:58Z")
Thomas Pynchon’s _Gravity’s Rainbow_. William Faulkner’s _Light in August_. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/13 "2007-06-28T02:39:56Z")
Two books I think are just about perfect and reread every few years: _The Great Gatsby_ _To Kill A Mockingbird_ I also loved Roth’s _The Great American Novel_ which made me a baseball fan. ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/14 "2007-06-28T02:51:20Z")
I’m gonna’ go with Steinbeck’s _East of Eden_. Modernist, sweeping, and observational. His description of the Salinas Valley is some of the most descriptive and poetic American prose ever written. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/15 "2007-06-28T02:54:16Z")
Believe it or not! I’m writing a book! I never thought I could pen a story! Scribblin’ away on a wing and a prayer! Who could it be? Believe it or not, it’s just me! ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/16 "2007-06-28T02:55:23Z")
I’m partial to **Paradise Falls** by Don Robertson. [This article](http://www.clevelandartsprize.org/lit_1966.htm) from the Cleveland Arts Council is the best I could find on him, and there’s an excerpt from the book. Robertson doesn’t even have a Wikipedia entry, and Paradise Falls doesn’t even have a description at Amazon. If Paradise Falls were a movie, it’d be Citizen Kane. His Civil War books are excellent too, and he wrote two angry yet loving books dealing with aging – **The Ideal Genuine Man** – published by Stephen King’s Philtrum Press (the only book that press ever published) – and **Praise the Human Season**. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/17 "2007-06-28T03:00:32Z")
Catch-22 may be the best modern novel, but Huckleberry Finn (at least up until the ending) is the novel that everyone else has tried to beat without success. If you want something more modern - even Catch-22 will be 50 pretty soon - and about America, then how about Cloudsplitter, by Russell Banks? It’s about John Brown, so it’s about slavery and the oncoming Civil War, and there’s nothing more American than that. It’s just as long as The Sot-Weed Factor and far more focused. Gatsby, of course, is possibly the most beautifully written novel of all the great contenders. I reread it every few years just to enjoy the remarkable perfection of the prose. And I also didn’t get that the OP was a whoosh. Why should I? You can find people saying things almost exactly like it here on other threads. And if you’ve never heard of The Sot-Weed Factor (not reading it is OK; nobody can read everything) then Bricker is right about your qualifications to start this thread. Do you know Barth at all? What about Barthelme or Coover? Heck what about Banks? He also started about the same time and with a similar book and I find that few people know how good he is. He’s up there with Roth and Doctorow and Boyle. And nobody sane would ever mention Tom Wolfe in such a thread. ---
**Author:** ![denquixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@denquixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/denquixote)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/18 "2007-06-28T03:02:50Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Inspired by this thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8723847#post8723847](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8723847#post8723847) , what’s the greatest American novel? I nominate _Catch-22_, and I suspect that may be the consensus. After all, what else is there? _The Great Gatsby_? Title character was a tool. Quit your whining and stop hitting on that guy’s wife, man. _Ethan Frome_? Please. The one slightly interesting moment in the story is the sleigh crash, which you get the impression takes place only slightly faster than walking pace. _Scarlet Letter_? I watched the movie. I couldn’t get past the first chapter of the book. Also, anyone nominating anything by Faulkner will be shot on sight. [/QUOTE] I agree with you about faulkner and disagree about gatsby, but I am wondering, given your nom de poll and your lack of knowledge of the works of John barth should you really be leading the discussion? As for catch-22, i loved it but it is certainly no better than “The naked and the Dead” and i don’t think it was as good as “From here to Eternity.” It was however a lot funnier than the other two. I rate it as the funniest American novel followed by “The World According to Garp.” ---
**Author:** ![denquixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@denquixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/denquixote)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/19 "2007-06-28T03:05:16Z")
[QUOTE=dennis gallagher] I agree with you about faulkner and disagree about gatsby, but I am wondering, given your nom de poll and your lack of knowledge of the works of John barth should you really be leading the discussion? As for catch-22, i loved it but it is certainly no better than “The naked and the Dead” and i don’t think it was as good as “From here to Eternity.” It was however a lot funnier than the other two. I rate it as the funniest American novel followed by “The World According to Garp.” [/QUOTE] I forgot: my own vote is for John dos Passos’ “USA trilogy” followed closely by “the grapes of wrath.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/20 "2007-06-28T03:09:12Z")
[QUOTE=don’t ask] Two books I think are just about perfect and reread every few years: _The Great Gatsby_ _To Kill A Mockingbird_ I also loved Roth’s _The Great American Novel_ which made me a baseball fan. [/QUOTE] I will also say that _To Kill A Mockingbird_ is my strong #2 choice. Other contenders include _The Sun Also Rises_, with the cynical “Isn’t it pretty to think so,” ending; _A Prayer for Owen Meany_, and _Gravity’s Rainbow_. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719.md?page=2)