# Greatest American novel? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 28, 2007, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719 "2007-06-28T01:50:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/21 "2007-06-28T03:40:43Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] And I also didn’t get that the OP was a whoosh. Why should I? You can find people saying things almost exactly like it here on other threads. And if you’ve never heard of The Sot-Weed Factor (not reading it is OK; nobody can read everything) then Bricker is right about your qualifications to start this thread. Do you know Barth at all? What about Barthelme or Coover? Heck what about Banks? He also started about the same time and with a similar book and I find that few people know how good he is. He’s up there with Roth and Doctorow and Boyle. And nobody sane would ever mention Tom Wolfe in such a thread. [/QUOTE] :rolleyes: My “qualifications” to start this thread? I must have missed the sticky where it explains that you MUST have a Ph.D. in Early American Literature to start a thread about American literature. My mistake. If you actually _read_ my post you’ll notice that I _didn’t_ read Bonfire of the Vanities. I leave it up to you to judge my sanity, but TIME called it the best novel of the last decade sometime around 1992; you can take it up with them. I started the thread because I wish to learn. If you find that somehow offensive, I will not require your participation. Fair? [QUOTE=dennis gallagher] but I am wondering, given your nom de poll and your lack of knowledge of the works of John barth should you really be leading the discussion? [/QUOTE] See above. Also, I think you mean nom de plume. ---
**Author:** ![denquixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@denquixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/denquixote)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/22 "2007-06-28T03:55:08Z")
no i meant nom de poll. it was a joke, you probably did not realize it because it wasn’t funny. ---
**Author:** ![Interrobang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/interrobang/32/17463_2.png) [@Interrobang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Interrobang)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/23 "2007-06-28T04:02:13Z")
Now that you’ve presumably shot **VCO3** , I’ll make my own Faulkner foray: _Absalom, Absalom!_ is the best novel I’ve ever read. Since it’s American, it’s got my nomination. Obligatory novel no one’s mentioned yet: Thomas Berger’s _Little Big Man_, which is much better than the movie. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/24 "2007-06-28T04:23:00Z")
I suggest The Color Purple and The Natural as contenders for this prize. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/25 "2007-06-28T04:40:18Z")
I think it’s _Huckleberry Finn_ but I’d also second _East of Eden_ and _To Kill a Mockingbird_ as runnrs up. This might seem like an unusual choice but I’d also give honorable mention to _Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas_. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/26 "2007-06-28T04:52:36Z")
To the people who voted for _Mockingbird_: how old were you when you read it for the first time? Did you get it straight away? How many times have you read it since? ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/27 "2007-06-28T05:04:56Z")
_East of Eden_ is a contender, I think, but I’d put _Grapes of Wrath_ ahead of it. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/28 "2007-06-28T05:08:05Z")
**Really Not All That Bright** , it’s hard to believe you’ve been a member for four years if this is all it takes to set you off. When you have three separate people in a thread say the same thing, it’s not them, it’s you. Why did you start with insulting half of literature and its readers rather than saying you were trying to learn? I always support that. Now back to opinions. Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas may be imaginative, but in a thread about greatest American novel? I can think of lots of great nonfiction books that say important things about America, but aren’t they really a different category? I don’t believe in the nonfiction novel, no matter what Capote said. Speaking of whom, while I love To Kill a Mockingbird I don’t place it in the great novel category. I’m not quite sure why. The writing is not as good as in most of the other nominees, true, but the subject matter is powerful and the book stands up to rereading. Maybe it’s Scout herself, who I’ve always found to be more annoying than endearing. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/29 "2007-06-28T05:35:28Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck] But my choice for greatest American novel is John Barth’s _The Sot-Weed Factor_. As funny as _Catch-22_, and much, much bawdier, it’s a work of utter and sustained brilliance (even more so when you realize much of it is based on historical fact – including the sacred eggplant). _Catch-22_ is about war, whereas _The Sot-Weed Factor_ is about America, which should be the subject of a great American novel. [/QUOTE] I’ve read _The Sot-Weed Factor_ at least three times; it’s a hoot. Unfortunately, I think it suffers from the same thing that all of Barth’s writing suffers from: the arch postmodernism prevents it, in fact, from being “about America.” It is, in fact, about American writing, and American writers, and American v. British idioms, etc. It’s a exercise–a monumentally impressive exercise–in cleverness, IMO. For this reason, I personally wouldn’t vote for it, though I love it dearly. YM, of course, MV. My vote would be for _Huckleberry Finn_. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/30 "2007-06-28T05:47:35Z")
One of the few novels I have read several times: _The Great Gatsby_. Why? Because it’s about the American dream, and its loss. _Moby Dick_ and _East of Eden_ are great novels, and American. But there is something timeless and universal about both. The sailors of the _Pequod_ could have been any nationality. The characters in _Eden_ are allegorical figures from Genesis. ---
**Author:** ![cji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@cji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cji)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/31 "2007-06-28T06:17:58Z")
Plenty of great novels in this thread, but I am happy to add my vote for East of Eden as well. I mean, it is a part of the Oprah book club after all! ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/32 "2007-06-28T11:55:44Z")
Good to see ‘The Sot-Weed Factor’ get mentioned - great book. My tastes are definitely towards Barth / Pynchon etc, but I don’t really think of those writers as fitting the bill for ‘The great American novel’. Best I have read for that category has to be Saul Bellow’s ‘The adventures of Augie March’, deeply impressive book that is quintessentially American. I’d also mention Franzen’s ‘The Corrections’ as a more modern pick. Seems to be a divisive work, but for me its the best mainstream American novel I’ve encountered in recent years. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/33 "2007-06-28T12:05:44Z")
In modern American literature, I’d suggest **On the Road** & **One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest** ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/34 "2007-06-28T12:13:45Z")
_Huckleberry Finn_, of course. If you don’t think so, I suspect you haven’t read it. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/35 "2007-06-28T12:28:32Z")
Just thought I’d throw in _Sometimes a Great Notion_. At least, when I read it twenty-something years ago, it seemed pretty great. ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/36 "2007-06-28T12:39:59Z")
I came in here to protest that Faulkner should be allowed to compete (but not to win) and that Pynchon should be disqualified for ridiculous density-for-density’s-sake. I’ve read most of Faulkner’s works about the Sutpen family, and plowed through David Foster Wallace’s _Infinite Jest_ probably six times now, loved the hell out of it, and have still never made it through _Gravity’s Rainbow_ despite being fantastically interested in WWII, V-2 rockets, London, and the idea that thoughts can steer the way the world reacts. Can’t do it. For my money, the award should be handed out by century. I’d give _Huckleberry Finn_ the prize for the 19th C., something by Irving (_Prayer for Owen Meany_ or perhaps _World According to Garp_) the prize for the 20th C., and put DFW’s _Infinite Jest_ on deck for the 21st C. despite being written in 1996. Wallace is definitely “too clever by half” but I still haven’t found a recent novel that can compete with it for tone, plotting, characters, and subject matter. Sometimes I’ll go back and just re-read the Eschaton chapter for laughs. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/37 "2007-06-28T12:43:11Z")
Huckleberry Finn. Until I finally write mine. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/38 "2007-06-28T12:54:56Z")
To me, it depends on what you mean by “Greatest American Novel”. If you mean greatest novel that encompasses the experience of being American, or is specific to an American theme - then it would have to be either _To Kill a Mockingbird_ or _Huckleberry Finn_, both of which encompass _both_ a specifically American time and place, deal squarely with the concerns that specifically affect Americans, _and_ have timeless appeal. A runner-up in that category would be _The Red Badge of Courage_ However, if you mean “greatest novel written by an American”, I’d go with Moby-Dick. Hugely influental on the development of the modern novel as an art form. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/39 "2007-06-28T12:55:45Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas may be imaginative, but in a thread about greatest American novel? I can think of lots of great nonfiction books that say important things about America, but aren’t they really a different category? I don’t believe in the nonfiction novel, no matter what Capote said. [/quote] FALILV is fiction. It’s not a non-fiction novel, it’s a pure novel. The main characters are loosely based on Thompson himself and his RL attorney but it’s still fiction. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719/40 "2007-06-28T12:59:25Z")
[QUOTE=Jurph] I came in here to protest that Faulkner should be allowed to compete (but not to win) and that Pynchon should be disqualified for ridiculous density-for-density’s-sake. I’ve read most of Faulkner’s works about the Sutpen family, and plowed through David Foster Wallace’s _Infinite Jest_ probably six times now, loved the hell out of it, and have still never made it through _Gravity’s Rainbow_ despite being fantastically interested in WWII, V-2 rockets, London, and the idea that thoughts can steer the way the world reacts. Can’t do it. [/QUOTE] I’ve got to agree. I’ve tried to read Pynchon several times - but it ends up being more of a chore than a pleasure. No one’s mentioned **Sophie’s Choice** by Styron yet, so I’ll give it a deserved shout. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-novel/409719.md?page=3)