# Greatest Female Hip-Hop Artist **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 17, 2008, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-female-hip-hop-artist/433825 "2008-01-17T03:52:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mahna\_Mahna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47c2d/32.png) [@Mahna\_Mahna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahna_Mahna)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-female-hip-hop-artist/433825/41 "2008-01-17T22:49:01Z")
[QUOTE=msmith537] Does Nelly Furtado count since Timbaland turned her all gangsta-bitch? [/QUOTE] Nelly had plenty of hip hop cred before she blew up big with her first album and went on to hook up with Timbaland. Her big break came as a result of Honey Jam, an all-female hip-hop/R&B showcase based out of Toronto. She’s also collaborated with several hip hop acts from Victoria, BC (her hometown) over the years… Swollen Members, for one. Sometimes a gal just has to go the pop tart route to get signed, and then work her way back to her roots once she’s made a name for herself. (that said, Nelly wouldn’t be my first vote - she’s a solid performer, but her rapping skills are most definitely sub-par and her singing voice tends too much to whiny/nasal for my tastes) ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2008, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-female-hip-hop-artist/433825/42 "2008-01-17T23:42:33Z")
Perhaps this thread is making you wanna cry because it’s shedding light on the cold truth- no woman has yet summited hip-hop’s Olympus. [QUOTE= Nzinga, Seated] Lauryn Hill is a lyrical goddess. She really is. Her time in the Fugees produced classic lyrics and it is well known that Wyclef and Prag couldn’t touch her. [/QUOTE] Lauryn Hill had a damn fine four- or five-year run. But so did [Vixen.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vixen_%28band%29) Hell, so did the [Go-Go’s.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go-go%27s) But nobody’s putting THEM in the same class as the Who or the Stones or hell, even Bon Jovi. Because they aren’t. Being the biggest fish in a small pond doesn’t mean much. Don’t get me wrong- I LIKE Lauryn Hill. I’m just saying that, as “greatness” goes objectively, she’s not even in my top 10, and she doesn’t, to my mind, touch the skill and flow of Nice ‘n’ Smooth or Black Sheep. That’s where I put her objectively- in the second tier of hip-hop overall. [QUOTE= Nzinga, Seated] 1. I agree that it is slim pickin’s. That’s a fact 2. I would like to see your top three male picks, so i can know whence this opinion comes! [/QUOTE] My top 3 male picks, in no particular order: KRS-ONE, Public Enemy, RUN-DMC. Granted, I’m sure that rappers like 2Pac and Jay-Z equal or might better those three in ability, but I’m not familiar enough with their work. [QUOTE= Nzinga, Seated] One more thing. A pox on anyone who mentions the god that is Rakim in the same breath as Nice 'n Smooth without mentioning that they are not fit to hold his mic cord. **glares at Happy** [/QUOTE] Noted. They aren’t. I’m just giving you perspective as to where I’m coming from. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-female-hip-hop-artist/433825/43 "2008-01-18T01:46:07Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] Lauryn Hill is now apparently doing a much less publicized Britney Spears. [/QUOTE] :dubious: How so? ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-female-hip-hop-artist/433825/44 "2008-01-18T02:08:11Z")
By apparently having mental problems and or breakdowns, as both former Fugee members have said, as have fans at recent concerts, and concert promoters. Google various combinations of “Lauryn Hill crazy odd mental behavior” for details, or I’ll post the ones I read for you in the a.m. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-female-hip-hop-artist/433825/45 "2008-01-18T02:15:30Z")
[QUOTE=Happy Scrappy Hero Pup] Lauryn Hill had a damn fine four- or five-year run. But so did [Vixen.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vixen_%28band%29) Hell, so did the [Go-Go’s.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go-go%27s) But nobody’s putting THEM in the same class as the Who or the Stones or hell, even Bon Jovi. . . . [/QUOTE] But GoGos didn’t make one of the ten greatest albums of the twentieth century; Lauryn Hill did. So, while I acknowledge that Hill probably blew her entire wad with that one album, it’s a pretty peerless wad. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-female-hip-hop-artist/433825/46 "2008-01-18T02:48:35Z")
[QUOTE=lissener] … a pretty peerless wad. [/QUOTE] Which would be a great name for another album. ---
**Author:** ![Key\_Lime\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/48db29/32.png) [@Key\_Lime\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Key_Lime_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-female-hip-hop-artist/433825/47 "2008-01-18T03:16:06Z")
Being somewhat ignorant of the stylistic boundaries, would Ursula Rucker merit any consideration? I don’t know how to classify her stuff - spoken word/trip-hop/dance/trance/jazz? - but it’s incredible. ---
**Author:** ![jali](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecae2f/32.png) [@jali](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jali)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-female-hip-hop-artist/433825/48 "2008-01-18T03:23:27Z")
Rah Diggah - outstanding flow! Jean Grae Eve Foxy Brown Lil’ Kim (despite the sex crap) All have real skill at spitting rhyme. I remember really liking Sweet Tee way back, although I can’t remember any of her rhymes offhand. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-female-hip-hop-artist/433825/49 "2008-01-18T03:26:35Z")
As I said in my previous post I am a “fan” of both Lauryn and Missy insomuch as I have “…Miseducation…”, “Under Construction” and “This is Not a Test” (crikey, those are NOT Missy’s “last two” albums. I’m way out of it!) Anyway, perusing my album/song collection, I would make the assumption that I like female hip hop artists second only to male rock bands (that’d be like 90% male rock, 5% female hip hop, 5% “other”) but yet I seem to be severely lacking in actual female hip hop recordings. I have never even heard any MC Lyte!! _shame_ Anyway, since all you guys seem to know what’s up, start recommending tracks for me. Not whole albums or whole artist catalogs - I’m not made of money 🙂 I’ll take **Nzinga** ’s advice with the highest value because she seems to know her shit. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-female-hip-hop-artist/433825/50 "2008-01-18T03:51:23Z")
I think Lauryn Hill is mad overrated, as were The Fugees. I’m glad I don’t hear them on a regular basis anymore. I would rate MC Lyte and Queen Latifah - for longevity, breaking the boys’ club of MCs, and flow. “Lyte as a Rock” or “Ladies First” were lyrically and rhythmically tight as they come. I liked Yo-Yo when she first broke out but she kind of disappeared. Monie Love had promise as well. Salt N Pepa get props for their work on the mic as well. Beyond that, I’d say not a lot of progress has been made… though I agree that chick from Digable Planets had a nice flow. (I’m definitely coming at this from a MC angle more than a hip-hop artist angle. But to count the hip hop artist tip you have to give props to Mary J. Blige… “What’s the 411?” was the album back in the day.) ---
**Author:** ![Mongo\_Ponton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Mongo\_Ponton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mongo_Ponton)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-female-hip-hop-artist/433825/51 "2008-01-18T04:25:40Z")
Lil’ Kim If its Murder you know she wrote it ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-female-hip-hop-artist/433825/52 "2008-01-18T04:34:50Z")
[QUOTE=Happy Scrappy Hero Pup] My top 3 male picks, in no particular order: KRS-ONE, Public Enemy, RUN-DMC. Granted, I’m sure that rappers like 2Pac and Jay-Z equal or might better those three in ability, but I’m not familiar enough with their work. [/QUOTE] Ok. KRS-ONE was the artist that made me love Hip-Hop with my entire being. And Public Enemy was genius. I am not a huge fan of Tupac or Jay Z, but I recognize that Jay-Z has a way with a rhyme. Can’t deny him that. So I will accept that your opinion holds plenty of weight with me. We just happen to disagree about Lauryn. [QUOTE=Hippy Hollow] But to count the hip hop artist tip you have to give props to Mary J. Blige… “What’s the 411?” was the album back in the day.) [/QUOTE] Nooo. Mary is not hip-hop. She was given the status of “Queen of Hip-Hop Soul”, and I accept that title for her, but there is a reason they tacked the ‘soul’ part on there. She is not a rapper. She will tell you that herself. That “what’s the 411” thing was just a lark. Not her real thang. Hip-Hop Soul was a term created for her to kind of let her know she is an honorary member of the hip-hop community, due to her good work with hip-hop legends like Method Man and Biggie. Other artists that may be considered both Neo Soul and Hip-Hop Soul is Jill Scott and Erycah Badu. I want to thank you guys for reminding me of Jean Grae. I like her and I think she is very good. She does have positive raps, which are nice, but are in no way necessary for me to consider an artist a good lyricist. I good lyricist just has to have the amazing ability to flip a phrase, drop a metaphore, match rhymes in an interesting way, have a flair for prose and have what we call “Steez” or “Steelo”. Just a _charisma_ that really shines. **Zipper JJ** , for old school, I recommend MC Lyte’s albums “Lyte as a Rock” and “Eyes on This”, which literally ruined Antoinettes career before it could even take off. For something obscure, I suggest Jane Doe. Party rap, I submit Salt and Pepa. (Hot, Cool and Vicious, and A Salt with a Deadly Pepa) For novelty flavor with a bit of real boom-bap, I offer Roxanne Shante. LadyBug from Digable Planets was pretty good, but I was in love with the over all style of the group, and the jazzy sound…never found her lyrics all that special. Of course, above all, I recommend the Fugees. Lauryn Hill wrecked the lyrics on every album they ever produced. Seriously. She has always been the only female artist afforded the respect of the top male artists in the game as simply a _rapper_. Not a female rapper. Even when the Fugees battled other groups, the members of the opposing groups would acknowledge that the Fugees had at least one member that was actually very good. And I realize that I am speaking like the authority on female rappers, but that is just my passion for hip-hop talking. The truth is, I can name 40 male rappers for every one female one that I think is good, so I really can’t pretend to know it all before true hardcore fans of female rappers. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-female-hip-hop-artist/433825/53 "2008-01-18T04:42:41Z")
[QUOTE=don’t ask] What’s next: World’s tallest dwarf. World’s shortest giant. The hairiest bald man. The man with the palest suntan. [/QUOTE] \<\\> 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-female-hip-hop-artist/433825/54 "2008-01-18T04:46:25Z")
I wish hip-hop was more like instrumental music, as in, instrumental and devoid of inane lyrics. I like the beats, bass and the studio effects, but I hate most of the lyrical messages and horrible live performances. Play an instrument. At least the Beastie Boys did that. Not condemning all hip hop to this category…just sayin’… ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-female-hip-hop-artist/433825/55 "2008-01-18T05:01:24Z")
[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil] Play an instrument. At least the Beastie Boys did that. [/QUOTE] The Roots did it better. Just sayin… I actually loved the Beastie Boys. I still like them, but in a different way than I loved them in the 80s. In the 80s, they were white hip-hop artists in the way that Lauryn was a female hip-hop artist. That is to say, they were respected by fans and artists in the industry for their true talent…we weren’t saying they were good “for white rappers”. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-female-hip-hop-artist/433825/56 "2008-01-18T07:22:07Z")
[QUOTE=Nzinga, Seated] Nooo. Mary is not hip-hop. She was given the status of “Queen of Hip-Hop Soul”, and I accept that title for her, but there is a reason they tacked the ‘soul’ part on there. She is not a rapper. She will tell you that herself. That “what’s the 411” thing was just a lark. Not her real thang. Hip-Hop Soul was a term created for her to kind of let her know she is an honorary member of the hip-hop community, due to her good work with hip-hop legends like Method Man and Biggie. Other artists that may be considered both Neo Soul and Hip-Hop Soul is Jill Scott and Erycah Badu. [/QUOTE] I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree, because I consider early Mary J. to be hip-hop… definitely on the soul tip, but I guess I don’t necessarily equate hip-hop artists with rapping as their main style always. I mentioned MCs in my post but the OP asked for hip-hop artists, which I thought was more inclusive of Mary J. circa early 90s. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-female-hip-hop-artist/433825/57 "2008-01-18T07:26:25Z")
[QUOTE=Nzinga, Seated] The Roots did it better. Just sayin… I actually loved the Beastie Boys. I still like them, but in a different way than I loved them in the 80s. In the 80s, they were white hip-hop artists in the way that Lauryn was a female hip-hop artist. That is to say, they were respected by fans and artists in the industry for their true talent…we weren’t saying they were good “for white rappers”. [/QUOTE] I’m probably going to get my hip-hop credentials pulled for saying this, but I never really got down with the Beasties. Licensed To Ill was okay, but the whole Paul’s Boutique - Sabotage era lost me, especially when all the kids trying to show me how down they were would bust out a Beasties track. Respect for their longevity and branching out, but not my cup of tea. I guess their fans’ zealotry ruined it for me. White rap groups getting it done: Young Black Teenagers and one of my all time favorite crews, 3rd Bass. Serch and Pete Nice were wicked on the mic… ---
**Author:** ![Amok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f17d59/32.png) [@Amok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amok)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2008, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-female-hip-hop-artist/433825/58 "2008-01-18T18:26:57Z")
In honor of this thread, I listened to “Ready or Not” and “Fugee La” last night. Yeah, I have to say, Hill could rip shit on the mic. She was definitely superior to Wyclef and Pras, IMO. Too bad she fell off. Still, my favorite song by a female MC remains “3 The Hard Way” by Bahamadia, which also features two even more obscure female rappers, K-Swift and Mecca Star. Good, dense rhymes over a raw beat, it’s one of my favorite obscure rap songs. The video is on youtube if anyone wants to see it. > [@RickJay](#): > > I’m curious, though, as to those who discount Hill’s work as a singer: why would singing disqualify her as a hip-hop artist? Music doesn’t have to have nothing but rap to be hip hop, and there’s elements of rap throughout her singing. It’s akin to saying the Beatles stop being a rock band when they used any instruments other than guitars and drums; innovation in their arrangements ADDED to rock music, it didn’t disqualify them. That Lauryn Hill combined artiful, talented singing with the other elements of hip hop doesn’t take her out of the equation; it’s one of the things that made her work so great. It’s been years since I’ve listened to her solo album, which I didn’t particularly like, though I know it gets tons of love, but I remember iy as her primarily singing. For me, a rap song/album/whatever has to primarily feature rap. Some singing is OK, but the primary focus should be rap, or it’s not rap/hip-hop anymore, it’s R&B. Otherwise, you know, Mary J Blige could be considered a rapper, since she occasionally raps as others have mentioned, but singing is her primary thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-female-hip-hop-artist/433825.md?page=2)