# Greatest Heist in MMO History (Eve) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 6, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-heist-in-mmo-history-eve/484736 "2009-02-06T18:57:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-heist-in-mmo-history-eve/484736/1 "2009-02-06T18:57:38Z")
BoB, the historical alliance in Eve Online was just taken down by a spy. The entire alliance was destroyed. [https://eve-files.com/media/corp/qgazq/mittani.mp3](https://eve-files.com/media/corp/qgazq/mittani.mp3) ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-heist-in-mmo-history-eve/484736/2 "2009-02-06T19:00:23Z")
Can you flesh this out for some of us? I don’t play this or know much about it, but it sounds like it might be an interesting story. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_C](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Captain\_C](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_C)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-heist-in-mmo-history-eve/484736/3 "2009-02-06T19:31:22Z")
This is huge. We are talking an alliance that has been the main force in EVE for over 5 years taken down in a matter of hours. We are talking an alliance that has a freakin’ BBQ every year in real life for its members. Thousands of players are now displaced from their homes. Uncountable amounts of in-game currency have been lost from all the destruction. Entire regions of player-controllable space are now up for conquering by the other large alliances. One guy’s turncoat actions has affected every single player of the game. That to me is amazing, the game system allows this much player control over the game environment. A good interview with the guy who pulled it off: [http://everadio.gamingradio.net/index.php?option=com\_content&task=view&id=83&Itemid=2](http://everadio.gamingradio.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=83&Itemid=2) Click the link near the bottom for the interview by Mittani, the guy who pulled it off. He explains his accomplishment well better than I could type it. For anyone who likes political intrigue and spy game type stuff, you will love this. Edit: **Whack-a-Mole** says it best in the other thread: > [@](#): > > Apparently BoB had a guy (Hoogarath or something…that is wrong but close) who was displeased with the direction BoB was taking. He approached Mittani who was dubious at first (this was a few days ago). The guy claimed to have access to various goodies and Mittani told him to put up or shut up. The guy gave Mittani access to BoB Director forums among other things (which Mittani promises to post). > > Now knowing it was for real Mittani pondered what to do. His inclination was to do a smash and grab. However, it dawned on him that this guy had Director access to the Executor Corp of the whole alliance. Mechanics being what they are he realized this guy could pull the plug on the whole alliance. No vote. No 24 hours cooldown. Just _bam_. > > And that is what they did. > > They disbanded BoB and then immediately stole the name (registered it for themselves). They reset standings all over the place so BoB corps showed red to each other and others. They plundered BNC assets to HUGE effect…walking off with something like 20-30 cap ships and other assets. > > But here is the really brutal part. When the Alliance disbanded they lost Sovereignty everywhere. All their jump bridges went inactive, all their cyno jammers (prevents enemies from warping in) went inactive, all their Player Owned Structures (POS) jumped their fuel costs by 30% or more. Any Titan or Motherships in production are now stillborn (I heard 2 Titans and a Mom…total rumor though but two Titans and a Mom constitute a MASSIVE amount of resources). > > Essentially the walls to the fortress crumbled in one fell swoop. > > Delve (where BoB lived) is hugely valuable. It is a cluster fuck of epic proportions down there as everyone and their sister is piling on it. > > BoB is trying to hold on but it is going to be spectacularly difficult for them now. They lost all the things that protected them and losing production capacity at an alarming rate. They have BNC.E intact which is huge but still…HUGE mess. > > Time will tell. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-heist-in-mmo-history-eve/484736/4 "2009-02-06T19:43:29Z")
Basically the Roman Empire fell, the barbarian hordes are plundering and killing each other over the remains. Billions and billions of isk in losses are occurring every hour. People are dying. There is a refugee crisis. It’s insane. My first link is directly to the interview with the guy who brought the Alliance down. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-heist-in-mmo-history-eve/484736/5 "2009-02-06T19:45:27Z")
Not my game, but all you need to know. [http://www.massively.com/2009/02/05/further-developments-in-eves-grand-theft-alliance-drama/](http://www.massively.com/2009/02/05/further-developments-in-eves-grand-theft-alliance-drama/) ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-heist-in-mmo-history-eve/484736/6 "2009-02-06T19:45:56Z")
As someone who knows nothing more about the game than I’ve learned in the past 10 minutes, that was both supremely dickheaded and unbelievably slick. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-heist-in-mmo-history-eve/484736/7 "2009-02-06T20:09:43Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > As someone who knows nothing more about the game than I’ve learned in the past 10 minutes, that was both supremely dickheaded and unbelievably slick. The thing to understand about this is Eve is all about infrastructure. The infrastructure capacity is immense, and incredibly complex. We’re talking factories, ore specific refineries, space stations. Player owned stations are modular and it takes a lot of work to set them up. Sovereignty is a reflection of infrastructure. My alliance is a small alliance and we had at one point before we got kicked out by a big alliance claimed a small backwater, resource poor constellation. They had an entire region, think, dozens of constellations. That means hundreds of player run stations. So it’s like a country just folded. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-heist-in-mmo-history-eve/484736/8 "2009-02-06T20:25:20Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > As someone who knows nothing more about the game than I’ve learned in the past 10 minutes, that was both supremely dickheaded and unbelievably slick. Amusingly enough, the vast majority of EVE players ourselves think that it was awesome. A quick litmus test for EVE pretty much goes “Is ‘griefing’ a bad word in your mind? If so, find an other MMO.” ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-heist-in-mmo-history-eve/484736/9 "2009-02-06T20:45:36Z")
Without downplaying the magnitude of this, it’s simply not correct to say that “thousands of players have been displaced from their homes.” The corporations that made up BoB are largely intact. Black Nova Corp did lose a couple dozen capital ships and a significant chunk of cash, but relatively few of BoB’s truly valuable assets were touched and if they don’t emerge from this with most of their territory it will be because they were getting to be internally disfunctional anyways. Some truly valuable assets _will_ be lost, of course. With the loss of sovereignty rendering certain defenses inoperable, it’s quite likely that BoB will lose some capital shipyards with titans in build, get locked out of some stations with lots of stuff still inside, lose dysprosium mining operations, etc. Those won’t happen solely because of the disbanding, however. Those will happen because there are numerous large and powerful factions that really dislike BoB and will leap at the opportunity to kick them while their defenses are down. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-heist-in-mmo-history-eve/484736/10 "2009-02-06T20:45:42Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Amusingly enough, the vast majority of EVE players ourselves think that it was awesome. A quick litmus test for EVE pretty much goes “Is ‘griefing’ a bad word in your mind? If so, find an other MMO.” That sums up how everyone in my corp feels about it. This works in the favor of small alliances because all the big ones will be hammering each other. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-heist-in-mmo-history-eve/484736/11 "2009-02-06T20:46:53Z")
**Gorsnak** I’m hearing about mass exoduses and roaming capital fleets. Jump Freighters moving as much out as they can. POS’s with less functionality. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-heist-in-mmo-history-eve/484736/12 "2009-02-06T20:47:09Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > My first link is directly to the interview with the guy who brought the Alliance down. It wasn’t Mittens that brought down BoB. It was the traitor. Mittens is just taking credit. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-heist-in-mmo-history-eve/484736/13 "2009-02-06T21:01:24Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > **Gorsnak** I’m hearing about mass exoduses and roaming capital fleets. Jump Freighters moving as much out as they can. POS’s with less functionality. Well, I was flying around Delve in a cov ops last night. The Goons were shooting a capital shipyard in J-L. NOL was more or less empty except for other tourists like me. About 60 BoB were next door in FD-, where they appeared to be primarily engaged in securing assets rather than forming up to defend their POS’s. There will indeed be a lot of jump freighter activity, just to keep up with regular POS logistics operations - though I’d imagine they’ll use titans to jump portal regular freighters as well, probably a more efficient use of fuel. All their POS fuel requirements just jumped because of the sov loss, and the POS jumpbridges won’t function till sov 3 is regained in about a month (assuming it isn’t lost permanently in the meantime). Thing is, there is a _lot_ of POS infrastructure in Delve that would have to be destroyed if BoB is going to actually lose it. Most POS defenses will still operate, minus the cyno jammers. Shields, guns, etc still work. So it’s still a lot of shooting required to destroy it, and BoB’s capital fleet still exists (minus a couple dozen dreads that were stolen). All that’s happened so far is that a bunch of towers have been reinforced. It’s a long way to go from there to actually losing the space. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-heist-in-mmo-history-eve/484736/14 "2009-02-06T21:01:35Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > It wasn’t Mittens that brought down BoB. It was the traitor. Mittens is just taking credit. Fair enough. Bottom line, BoB was taken down. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-heist-in-mmo-history-eve/484736/15 "2009-02-06T21:31:05Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > All that’s happened so far is that a bunch of towers have been reinforced. It’s a long way to go from there to actually losing the space. Not really all that long. Putting POS’s in reinforced is the step right before you blow them out of the sky. And BoB won’t be able to keep them all repped up and defended. Even a small strikegroup of Armageddons can take out an undefended POS’ shields without wasting ammo. It will be interesting to see what gets destroyed, though. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-heist-in-mmo-history-eve/484736/16 "2009-02-06T22:26:40Z")
I heard that it’s the corps known as BoB ‘pets’ that are fleeing. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-heist-in-mmo-history-eve/484736/17 "2009-02-06T22:54:50Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Not really all that long. Putting POS’s in reinforced is the step right before you blow them out of the sky. And BoB won’t be able to keep them all repped up and defended. Even a small strikegroup of Armageddons can take out an undefended POS’ shields without wasting ammo. > > It will be interesting to see what gets destroyed, though. On SHC “Kenny”\* are reporting that the POS put into reinforced yesterday in J-L have been repped without opposition. Putting a POS into reinforced is largely meaningless unless you are set up to bring it when the thing comes out. \*Kenzoku? WTF is it with those guys and Japanese? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-heist-in-mmo-history-eve/484736/18 "2009-02-06T23:07:57Z")
Oh, to be sure there are probably POS’s that go into reinforced which aren’t brought down. But some of those BoB doesn’t protect can and will still be eliminated. It at least puts BoB on the defensive, forcing them to be in certain locations to rep POS’s back up if they want to guarantee that they’re kept. And we haven’t even seen the first full weekend of combat. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-heist-in-mmo-history-eve/484736/19 "2009-02-06T23:10:09Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > There will indeed be a lot of jump freighter activity, just to keep up with regular POS logistics operations - though I’d imagine they’ll use titans to jump portal regular freighters as well, probably a more efficient use of fuel. All their POS fuel requirements just jumped because of the sov loss, and the POS jumpbridges won’t function till sov 3 is regained in about a month (assuming it isn’t lost permanently in the meantime). > > Thing is, there is a _lot_ of POS infrastructure in Delve that would have to be destroyed if BoB is going to actually lose it. Most POS defenses will still operate, minus the cyno jammers. Shields, guns, etc still work. So it’s still a lot of shooting required to destroy it, and BoB’s capital fleet still exists (minus a couple dozen dreads that were stolen). All that’s happened so far is that a bunch of towers have been reinforced. It’s a long way to go from there to actually losing the space. Apparently BoB (or whoever they are now) regained Sov-1 in a single day. The clever buggers, probably thinking of more normal avenues to losing sovereignty, had a backup corp place POS in all their systems. So, as soon as they lost the alliance the game looked for anyone else with POS to gain sovereignty. Normally takes a week but then those other POS have been there a long time. That helps a lot. Still a huge blow from where they were but it does give them at least some advantage. They get the 25% fuel reduction, access to their outposts back and capital ship arrays back. I am not sure now if the Moms/Titans in the oven got destroyed when Sov. was lost. I think they just stopped but are still there. With Sov back I _think_ they can start them up again. Not sure though. I think BoB will be harder to knock over than people suspect. Goons need to really organize rather than run in like hooligans wanting to smash the place up a bit. If Goons and the rest cannot kick BoB after this then I think BoB is essentially invulnerable. It will take them months to fully recover even so (assuming they survive). ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-heist-in-mmo-history-eve/484736/20 "2009-02-06T23:11:11Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Oh, to be sure there are probably POS’s that go into reinforced which aren’t brought down. But some of those BoB doesn’t protect can and will still be eliminated. It at least puts BoB on the defensive, forcing them to be in certain locations to rep POS’s back up if they want to guarantee that they’re kept. > > And we haven’t even seen the first full weekend of combat. Does a POS in reinforced still count towards Sovereignty or does it need to be wiped completely? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-heist-in-mmo-history-eve/484736.md?page=2)