# Greatest Human Killer Ever? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 6, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-human-killer-ever/538466 "2010-05-06T01:53:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![boilercake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@boilercake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boilercake)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-human-killer-ever/538466/1 "2010-05-06T01:53:07Z")
By WHATEVER means, intentionally or otherwise, and I do mean killer – I’m not limiting the query to some kind of legally defined “murderer;” but an individual who was flat-out responsible directly or indirectly, ultimately or any other way responsble for the most direct/indirect deaths! Mao? Stalin? Hitler? Attila? Genghis? Bush? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-human-killer-ever/538466/2 "2010-05-06T02:07:51Z")
The top three would be Hitler, Stalin, and Mao; the only exercise is to determine which order. Bush? Much as I dislike all his administration did, he wasn’t even in the top ten US presidents as far as deaths he was responsible for. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-human-killer-ever/538466/3 "2010-05-06T02:14:56Z")
I’ve seen estimates of the death-toll in the Americas due to diseases contracted from Europeans up to 80 million (of course, I’ve also seen much lower estimates). So for a very broad definition of “responsibilty”, I’ll vote Columbus. ---
**Author:** ![toofs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4491bb/32.png) [@toofs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toofs)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-human-killer-ever/538466/4 "2010-05-06T02:20:59Z")
Jesus Christ? Prophet Muhammad? You used the word “indirectly” in your op. ---
**Author:** ![boilercake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@boilercake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boilercake)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-human-killer-ever/538466/5 "2010-05-06T02:37:06Z")
> [@toofs](#): > > Jesus Christ? Let me amend the OP: Greatest Human Killer Ever that We Know Actually Existed? ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-human-killer-ever/538466/6 "2010-05-06T02:43:21Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Bush? Much as I dislike all his administration did, he wasn’t even in the top ten US presidents as far as deaths he was responsible for. Can we make this list? It’d be fun. The first order of business would be to decide if when we sell a friendly dictator tons of weapons and military equipment and they use that to wreck havoc – does that count? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-human-killer-ever/538466/7 "2010-05-06T02:43:57Z")
Actually, I think Jesus was a pretty cool guy (eh fights deamons and doesn’t afraid of anything.) I don’t think that even by a stretch you could put the blame on the (tens of) millions of killings that have been done in his name on him, even if he was unmistakably a person of his times in his social views. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-human-killer-ever/538466/8 "2010-05-06T02:44:19Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The top three would be Hitler, Stalin, and Mao; the only exercise is to determine which order. No, not even close. The guy who first contracted HIV/AIDS and brought it to humans is responsible for far more (about 25 million total according to [this](http://www.avert.org/worldstats.htm)). ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-human-killer-ever/538466/9 "2010-05-06T02:48:07Z")
“Indirectly”? My vote goes to (St.) Paul of Tarsus. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-human-killer-ever/538466/10 "2010-05-06T02:58:11Z")
Sorry, we can’t play the “indirectly” game. Hitler rose to power because of dissatisfaction with the Treaty of Versailles. The Treaty was written because Germany lost WW1. WW1 was started by the assination of archduke ferdinand. His mother was \_\_\_\_\_\_\_. This can go back forever, making Adam the biggest murderer in history. I would suggest a variation of the Kevin Bacon game with a maximum of 5 degrees of separation. But, in keeping with the spirit of this game, i’ll go with the person who invented alcohol. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-human-killer-ever/538466/11 "2010-05-06T03:38:32Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > No, not even close. The guy who first contracted HIV/AIDS and brought it to humans is responsible for far more (about 25 million total according to [this](http://www.avert.org/worldstats.htm)). Yes, very close. Probably in the order Mao, Stalin, Hitler. If you include the first American who got a bit too chummy with his pigs and was the first to contract the flu virus started the 1918 pandemic you can credit them with 50 million. Which would give them a podium finish, if you want to macabre. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-human-killer-ever/538466/12 "2010-05-06T03:56:52Z")
[Try this](http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/atrox.htm) which lists them as: Hitler: 55,000,000 (does not list it as Hitler but WWII which you might lay at Hitler’s feet) Mao: 40,000,000 Stalin: 20,000,000 Of course those numbers are debatable. I have seen Stalin (for one) listed as responsible for 30,000,000 deaths. That said the numbers seem good ballpark figures. The link then goes on to make an analysis of atrocities as a percentage of a given population which is interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-human-killer-ever/538466/13 "2010-05-06T06:24:43Z")
Smallpox. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-human-killer-ever/538466/14 "2010-05-06T06:40:58Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > [Try this](http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/atrox.htm) which lists them as: > > Hitler: 55,000,000 (does not list it as Hitler but WWII which you might lay at Hitler’s feet) > Mao: 40,000,000 > Stalin: 20,000,000 > > Of course those numbers are debatable. I have seen Stalin (for one) listed as responsible for 30,000,000 deaths. That said the numbers seem good ballpark figures. That WWII figure includes the entire war, including the Pacific theater and the Sino-Japanese war. I don’t think we can blame all that on Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-human-killer-ever/538466/15 "2010-05-06T08:37:00Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > Sorry, we can’t play the “indirectly” game. We can’t? > [@](#): > > The first man who, having fenced in a piece of land, said “This is mine,” and found people naïve enough to believe him, that man was the true founder of civil society. From how many crimes, wars, and murders, from how many horrors and misfortunes might not any one have saved mankind, by pulling up the stakes, or filling up the ditch, and crying to his fellows: Beware of listening to this impostor; you are undone if you once forget that the fruits of the earth belong to us all, and the earth itself to nobody. Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Discourse on Inequality, 1754 ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-human-killer-ever/538466/16 "2010-05-06T08:39:20Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > That WWII figure includes the entire war, including the Pacific theater and the Sino-Japanese war. I don’t think we can blame all that on Hitler. OTOH I recall from somewhere there is more recent scholarship that the Soviets lost far more people during WWII than previously thought – something on the order of 50 million. Really, it’s kinds tough to say who should get credit for them between Hitler and Stalin. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-human-killer-ever/538466/17 "2010-05-06T08:58:12Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > But, in keeping with the spirit of this game, i’ll go with the person who invented alcohol. Alchoholic drinks may have saved more people than they have killed over the whole of human history. Many cultures did not have access to sanitary drinking water, so alchoholic drinks such as [small beer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_beer#Small_beer) were a staple part of their diet. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-human-killer-ever/538466/18 "2010-05-06T10:09:34Z")
[Thomas Midgley, Jr.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley,_Jr.) deserves a mention, even if I can’t find any hard numbers on actual _deaths_. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Great\_Philosopher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3ec8ea/32.png) [@The\_Great\_Philosopher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Great_Philosopher)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-human-killer-ever/538466/19 "2010-05-06T10:20:24Z")
If you’re talking about more direct killing, it’s fair to say whichever pilot deployed the Little Boy atomic bomb over Hiroshima is personally and directly responsible for the immediate deaths of about 70,000 people. Besides the Nagasaki bombing, I can’t think of anyone else in history who was even close to personally causing that many immediate deaths. Can anyone else? ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-human-killer-ever/538466/20 "2010-05-06T11:03:03Z")
What about Henry Ford? He’s the twit who put automobiles into the hands of the masses. . . [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-human-killer-ever/538466.md?page=2)