# Greatest idea in years... \[NFL may penalize racial slurs\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 23, 2014, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-idea-in-years-nfl-may-penalize-racial-slurs/682006 "2014-02-23T06:17:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-idea-in-years-nfl-may-penalize-racial-slurs/682006/41 "2014-02-26T06:07:08Z")
> [@2sense](#): > > Way to miss the point there. I’m not crusading against the unfairness of whites not being able to freely use the term “nigger”. You might have noticed that my first post was to mock that very idea. Yes, you’re crusading against black people getting a free pass for racism based on something Jesse Jackson said 20 years ago. I don’t think you’ve demonstrated any kind of widespread problem. > [@](#): > > My point is that I don’t think it helps race relations to label those who merely utter racial stereotypes as racists. So who actually is a racist, then? > [@](#): > > If instead of judging people when it happens those around that person just tried to help them see why it was wrong believe such hurtful nonsense then maybe we would be on the tract to lessen racism overall in America. I’m happy to explain those things if they’re willing to listen, but my experience is that they’re usually not. It’s 2014 and our society did not just decide yesterday that racial stereotyping and discrimination are bad things. These people are generally not curious and misinformed; they’re nasty and aggrieved and they want you to know about it. And they’re always demanding that we coddle them and spare their feelings! It’s a titanic waste of time, and that’s not an accident. They want you to talk nicely to them while they say vile things about everyone else because their feelings are the only feelings that matter. Sometimes it’s better to just call people out when they do wrong and go from there. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-idea-in-years-nfl-may-penalize-racial-slurs/682006/42 "2014-02-26T06:19:19Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Doesn’t the NHL already have rules against this? … Sure, taunting and insulting is unsportsmanlike, scattering someone’s teeth out of their head with a stick, good clean fun. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-idea-in-years-nfl-may-penalize-racial-slurs/682006/43 "2014-02-26T06:27:42Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I don’t think these things are comparable to the use of ~igger in the black community. Apples and oranges. Until recently there haven’t been that many Asians in the US. And unlike African-Americans, their individual cultures weren’t taken from them to produce a single pan-Asian-American culture. Chinese, Vietnamese, Hmong, Indian, Malaysian, etc were all able to maintain their own individual cultures in the US, unlike the experience of slaves or their descendants. It’s an incredibly superficial analysis that wonders at this lack of “taking back” a derogatory term. Asians have never been unified as African-Americans have - mainly because Asians haven’t had to deal with anything like the same level of subjugation, discrimination, or cultural eradication. Considering the vastly different experiences and history, why then would Asians choose to embrace a unifying term, when they aren’t united - in culture, history, experience, denigration, or much anything else than the continent they come from? ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-idea-in-years-nfl-may-penalize-racial-slurs/682006/44 "2014-02-26T07:31:49Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yes, you’re crusading against black people getting a free pass for racism based on something Jesse Jackson said 20 years ago. I don’t think you’ve demonstrated any kind of widespread problem. Again, I realize it’s a sensitive topic. Perhaps it would be best to take some time to get perspective before attempting to respond. I’m not crusading against black people in any way, shape, or form. I don’t think anyone should get a free pass for racist statements, assuming that means you just ignore it, but overall I think how we treat racist statements by people of color is more healthy than how we treat racist statements from whites. We criticize the statements but don’t label them a racist. I think if we let white people know that having a racist idea doesn’t mean you deserve to be an outcast or something then whites would have room to be more honest with themselves and others about the racism in their heads. I think in that sort of environment there would be less racial tension. Now maybe you think that’s pie in the sky thinking but it damn sure ain’t no attack on blacks. > [@](#): > > So who actually is a racist, then? I think it would be most useful to define it to mean those who are actively anti-minority. We’ve all met a fuckload of those types. People who aren’t ashamed of their racist attitudes. I’ve also met a lot of people, mostly older I guess, who aren’t actively working to discriminate but who just don’t believe that African-Americans can really be just Americans. They don’t hate them but refuse to recognize a kinship. Those are another kind of racist I would say. > [@](#): > > I’m happy to explain those things if they’re willing to listen, but my experience is that they’re usually not. Having been at the receiving end of your explaining when you perceive racism I can understand why you aren’t experiencing a lot of success. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-idea-in-years-nfl-may-penalize-racial-slurs/682006/45 "2014-02-26T08:21:46Z")
I have to say the biggest surprise about this thread is that racial vilification is still allowed in American sport. It has been banned for decades in Australia. In fact last year [Adam Goodes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Goodes), the current Australian of the Year, had a spectator thrown out of a game for calling him an ape. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-idea-in-years-nfl-may-penalize-racial-slurs/682006/46 "2014-02-26T08:49:16Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Sure, taunting and insulting is unsportsmanlike, scattering someone’s teeth out of their head with a stick, good clean fun. Hey, if you can’t take the getting slammed straight into a wall at high speed, get out of the kitchen. It might just be Gordon Ramsey’s kitchen though. ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-idea-in-years-nfl-may-penalize-racial-slurs/682006/47 "2014-02-26T09:21:18Z")
scattering someone’s teeth out of their head with a stick is high sticking 2 minutes ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-idea-in-years-nfl-may-penalize-racial-slurs/682006/48 "2014-02-26T13:22:35Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > From a practical (not legal) standpoint, I think it would be really hard. The field is huge and the stadium is loud. There are 22 players on it at all times, not counting players who go on and off between each play. Guys are probably jawing at each other after every play and players on the sideline might get involved too. At least some of the refs have other responsibilities, including watching how the players are lined up. And they’re also supposed to listen for inappropriate language? Refs assign penalties to the wrong players all the time - either by simply mistaking the numbers or getting confused in a quick play. With a holding call it’s not a big deal. But if they throw a “bad word” flag and get the wrong player (can you be sure who says what in the middle of a fumble scrum?) that player is stigmatized in a real way. Refs really can’t afford to get it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-idea-in-years-nfl-may-penalize-racial-slurs/682006/49 "2014-02-26T14:11:12Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > So one Asian artist who thinks that it would be cool to try and coin a catchphrase uses the phrase “chinked-out” to describe the act of making hip hop and R&B sound more Asian. I don’t think these things are comparable to the use of ~igger in the black community. I don’t see Asians accepting and adopting the term chinkout despite the fact that one twenty something Asian singer/songwriter/record producer/actor/film director in Taiwan that I have never heard of thinks we need to reclaim the word chink the way blacks have “reclaimed” the word ~igger. Its not helpful to serious discussions. Three seconds of googling would have shown you that he’s [one example among many](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reappropriation#Race_and_ethnicity). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-idea-in-years-nfl-may-penalize-racial-slurs/682006/50 "2014-02-26T15:44:18Z")
> [@2sense](#): > > I’m not crusading against black people in any way, shape, or form. I didn’t say you were crusading against black people. Please read the full sentence before responding. > [@](#): > > overall I think how we treat racist statements by people of color is more healthy than how we treat racist statements from whites. I don’t think they’re treated differently, and I find your assertions of differing treatment (backed up by one quote from Jesse Jackson) unconvincing in the extreme. > [@](#): > > I think if we let white people know that having a racist idea doesn’t mean you deserve to be an outcast or something then whites would have room to be more honest with themselves and others about the racism in their heads. I think in that sort of environment there would be less racial tension. Well, again, I don’t think the solution to racism involves protecting the feelings of white people. I think it involves tackling economic and legal and social issues. The most important thing about racism is not how white people feel about racism. > [@](#): > > I think it would be most useful to define it to mean those who are actively anti-minority. In other words the word should be used for the smallest, most extreme, most easily identifiable group of people and the broader implications of the problem should be avoided so people don’t feel bad. (This is usually followed by an explanation of how being called a racist is the worst thing that can happen to a white person because of the _dire consequences._) I don’t think that’s going to be very productive. > [@](#): > > We’ve all met a fuckload of those types. No we haven’t. They’re pretty rare, in fact. Most people acknowledge at this point that our society has agreed that racial prejudice is bad, and as a result you have to be a seriously hardcore bigot to voice those kind of sentiments in public. Which means those prejudices are expressed in terms of other issues. > [@](#): > > They don’t hate them but refuse to recognize a kinship. Rejecting the idea of your common humanity with people based on their skin color or ethnic background seems pretty hateful to me - and again, I don’t see the point in kissing the butts of people who feel differently. They’re not going to change their minds, and I think a firm rejection of this kind of crap is more productive than sending the message that everybody has to put their own feelings aside - including the people being bashed and discriminated against - so some ignorant white people don’t feel bad. > [@](#): > > Having been at the receiving end of your explaining when you perceive racism I can understand why you aren’t experiencing a lot of success. 😃 Stellar reading comprehension. I didn’t say they don’t listen _to me_. I said they don’t listen. Usually you can tell exactly how these people feel and how the conversation is going to go from way they raise the issues and how they talk about them. Some people really ask questions, and others just make declarations about how they feel and how they don’t give a fuck. I don’t object to answering questions. But I don’t think we need to take a credulous, accepting attitude toward prejudiced people who demand that they be given a reason to treat people as individuals instead of stereotypes. ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-idea-in-years-nfl-may-penalize-racial-slurs/682006/51 "2014-02-26T21:12:36Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I didn’t say you were crusading against black people. Please read the full sentence before responding. I always read several times before responding. You should try it. It still seems to me that you accused me of a form of crusading against black people: against their getting a free pass on racism. > [@](#): > > I don’t think they’re treated differently, and I find your assertions of differing treatment (backed up by one quote from Jesse Jackson) unconvincing in the extreme. I don’t blame you. Unfortunately I’m not great at finding this sort of information. I’m open to ideas. Anyone? > [@](#): > > Well, again, I don’t think the solution to racism involves protecting the feelings of white people. I think it involves tackling economic and legal and social issues. The most important thing about racism is not how white people feel about racism. If only we lived in a world where we could explore more than one idea at the same time. Too bad we live here in Marley’s Way instead of the Milky Way. > [@](#): > > In other words the word should be used for the smallest, most extreme, most easily identifiable group of people and the broader implications of the problem should be avoided so people don’t feel bad. I’m not suggesting we ignore the broader racism I just don’t think it helps if we include everyone who has racist ideas inside their heads in the definition of racists. Because I think that would make pretty much all of us racists, even Reverend Jackson. Precise terminology can help reduce confusion which is important with touchy subjects. > [@](#): > > (This is usually followed by an explanation of how being called a racist is the worst thing that can happen to a white person because of the _dire consequences._) I don’t think that’s going to be very productive. I find your inner monologue uninteresting. 2 stars > [@](#): > > No we haven’t. They’re pretty rare, in fact. Most people acknowledge at this point that our society has agreed that racial prejudice is bad, and as a result you have to be a seriously hardcore bigot to voice those kind of sentiments in public. Which means those prejudices are expressed in terms of other issues. I don’t know what your social situation is but I grew up in rural Michigan and live in suburban Western PA. I’ve encountered casual racism all my life. The neighbors’ dad and grandfather would mock my parents for having black friends to my face. I had a friend when I was young that tried to convince me to hate black people. I worked in a redneck bar where nigger jokes were told. At my current job I had a coworker explain that he wouldn’t date a girl because her previous boyfriend was black. When I called him on that bullshit his defense was that the guy was really really black. Strangers occasionally will just assume that because you are white it’s OK to make racist statements in your presence. And that’s not to even mention my family. I wish you were right but that’s not been my experience. > [@](#): > > Rejecting the idea of your common humanity with people based on their skin color or ethnic background seems pretty hateful to me - and again, I don’t see the point in kissing the butts of people who feel differently. Your butt-kissing preferences, while not germane, are noted. I think it’s more fear of blacks because they are different. Lets not get all Jedi Master on this but fear can easily turn to hate. I think there is a qualitative difference between people who fear minorities and those who actively hate and work against them. The fearful and the hateful. Obviously I wouldn’t want either type running HR for a company but I can tolerate the former as merely ignorant, if stubbornly and hurtfully so. I don’t see the point in pushing them into the arms of the hateful. > [@](#): > > They’re not going to change their minds, and I think a firm rejection of this kind of crap is more productive than sending the message that everybody has to put their own feelings aside - including the people being bashed and discriminated against - so some ignorant white people don’t feel bad. As I’ve said, we shouldn’t let it slide when anyone produces some racist bullshit. And I agree that changing hearts and minds isn’t easy. But if it’s going to happen it will happen by criticizing the behavior and not by insulting the person. Look, we know that most of these people are going to go to the grave without changing their attitude but they are going to die someday and it’s their kids and grandkids that are the hope for the future. “Grannie came from a time when people were taught hurtful things” is a more productive conversation with those descendants than “Grannie was a bigot. Fuck her.” > [@](#): > > Stellar reading comprehension. I didn’t say they don’t listen _to me_. The evidence of your obtuseness certainly didn’t auger well for your analysis. > [@](#): > > I said they don’t listen. Usually you can tell exactly how these people feel and how the conversation is going to go from way they raise the issues and how they talk about them. Some people really ask questions, and others just make declarations about how they feel and how they don’t give a fuck. I don’t object to answering questions. But I don’t think we need to take a credulous, accepting attitude toward prejudiced people who demand that they be given a reason to treat people as individuals instead of stereotypes. I was wrong though. This makes perfect sense. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-idea-in-years-nfl-may-penalize-racial-slurs/682006/52 "2014-02-26T21:57:51Z")
> [@2sense](#): > > It still seems to me that you accused me of a form of crusading against black people: against their getting a free pass on racism. Not at all. I’ll grant you that I could’ve worded it differently (like “you’re claiming people of color are treated differently when they say racist things and objecting to that treatment”), but either way, it’s a daft way of reading what I wrote. > [@](#): > > I don’t blame you. Unfortunately I’m not great at finding this sort of information. I’m open to ideas. Anyone? Perhaps you could have figured out if your claims was true _before_ posting it. Good luck finding a cite for it. > [@](#): > > If only we lived in a world where we could explore more than one idea at the same time. To begin with, there’s the matter of priorities. And perhaps more importantly, this is a theme that recurs in discussions of racism: the idea that we must never offend anyone who is not being as hateful as humanly possible. Why is that so important? > [@](#): > > I’m not suggesting we ignore the broader racism I just don’t think it helps if we include everyone who has racist ideas inside their heads in the definition of racists. We’re not talking about what people have inside their heads. We’re discussing what they say and do. > [@](#): > > I think it’s more fear of blacks because they are different. And in your opinion, that kind of judgment and fear _shouldn’t_ be called racist? Think about the consequences that kind of fear has: it sure explains a lot about the state of our legal system and Stand Your Ground shootings, for instance. > [@](#): > > I think there is a qualitative difference between people who fear minorities and those who actively hate and work against them. The fearful and the hateful. There can be differences in behavior and there could be different motivations. But they’re both racist. You can’t tell me that someone who is irrationally fearful of people of another race just because they’re another race isn’t a racist. > [@](#): > > I don’t see the point in pushing them into the arms of the hateful. Again: I am still not talking about pushing anyone anywhere. > [@](#): > > And I agree that changing hearts and minds isn’t easy. But if it’s going to happen it will happen by criticizing the behavior and not by insulting the person. “Racist” isn’t an insult. Sometimes it’s an entirely appropriate description of a person or their behavior or a system.\* Again, this is what you get when people insist we have to make nice with bigots (the feelings of the people they’re hurting be damned). > [@](#): > > Look, we know that most of these people are going to go to the grave without changing their attitude … wait, I thought you were saying we have to be nice to these people so we don’t alienate them and have a chance at changing their minds. This is closer to what I was saying a few posts ago: these people usually won’t change their minds anyway, so why do we have to coddle them? Now you’re saying they’re probably going to stick to their prejudices, but we still need to be nicey-nice because their _children and grandchildren_ might be offended? The goal here is becoming more and more elusive. Given the choice, I would really rather stick up for someone who is being stereotyped or discriminated against than spare the feelings of a bigot. Part of my objection here is that you’re treating the bigot’s feelings as if they are more important. People who think in stereotypes and lack the curiosity to try to see past them do not deserve to be spared offense. > [@](#): > > “Grannie came from a time when people were taught hurtful things” is a more productive conversation with those descendants than “Grannie was a bigot. Fuck her.” Pretty sure I didn’t say “fuck Granny.” We’re all products of our time, and there’s nothing wrong with pointing out that we all reflect the prejudices of the times and places we come from. If you meet someone who sticks to a prejudice because that’s what their parents or grandparents believe, they’re extremely closed-minded. And if they refuse to be tolerant because they think that criticizing an outdated point of view is an insult to an elderly relative, that person is an oversensitive twit. My grandparents were good people but they _did_ sometimes say things that were a little racist. I had no problem calling them on it, and I think that’s the right thing to do. \*I want to emphasize that I’m speaking as a poster and not a mod here; my reasons for sometimes modding the word “racist” as applied to a poster are separate. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-idea-in-years-nfl-may-penalize-racial-slurs/682006/53 "2014-02-26T23:57:08Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > scattering someone’s teeth out of their head with a stick is high sticking > > 2 minutes Minor penalty ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-idea-in-years-nfl-may-penalize-racial-slurs/682006/54 "2014-02-27T00:33:33Z")
For those who claim our society can properly interpret the intent of racial words see the guy in DC who had to resign for referring to a budget as niggardly. There is something rather distasteful about billionaire white men telling their black employees what words they can and can’t call each other. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-idea-in-years-nfl-may-penalize-racial-slurs/682006/55 "2014-02-27T02:32:25Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > For those who claim our society can properly interpret the intent of racial words see the guy in DC who had to resign for referring to a budget as niggardly. > > There is something rather distasteful about billionaire white men telling their black employees what words they can and can’t call each other. They already do. There’ve been plenty of black professional athletes fired for saying things their coaches or owners don’t like. ---
**Author:** ![Cugel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cugel/32/1199_2.png) [@Cugel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cugel)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-idea-in-years-nfl-may-penalize-racial-slurs/682006/56 "2014-02-27T05:51:39Z")
The [Australian Football League’s rules](http://www.aflcommunityclub.com.au/index.php?id=734). Of course, in Australia there general laws about hate/vilification speech which presumably sports persons aren’t exempt from. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-idea-in-years-nfl-may-penalize-racial-slurs/682006/57 "2014-02-27T23:47:16Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > scattering someone’s teeth out of their head with a stick is high sticking > > 2 minutes What little teeth they have left. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-idea-in-years-nfl-may-penalize-racial-slurs/682006/58 "2014-02-28T04:09:03Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Apples and oranges. > > Until recently there haven’t been that many Asians in the US. And unlike African-Americans, their individual cultures weren’t taken from them to produce a single pan-Asian-American culture. Chinese, Vietnamese, Hmong, Indian, Malaysian, etc were all able to maintain their own individual cultures in the US, unlike the experience of slaves or their descendants. > > It’s an incredibly superficial analysis that wonders at this lack of “taking back” a derogatory term. Asians have never been unified as African-Americans have - mainly because Asians haven’t had to deal with anything like the same level of subjugation, discrimination, or cultural eradication. > > Considering the vastly different experiences and history, why then would Asians choose to embrace a unifying term, when they aren’t united - in culture, history, experience, denigration, or much anything else than the continent they come from? OK, I see there are diff differences and Asians do not share a common history any more than ancestral blacks share a common history with blacks from the caribbean and Africa. Asians were never exactly enslaved and certainly not to the extent that blacks were but [Coolie - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coolie#History_of_the_Coolie_trade). Asians suffered quite a bit of discrimination (see internment camps) but perhaps the cultural eradication was not there. So how does the eradication of a culture make the common use of a derogatory term useful where where more uplifting terms had previously been used? > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Three seconds of googling would have shown you that he’s [one example among many](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reappropriation#Race_and_ethnicity). OK, so I clicked on the word chink on that list and got this page: [Chink - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chink) There is a subsection entitled: [Chink - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chink#Offensiveness_and_reappropriation) And the example they give is that SAME GUY: > [@](#): > > Similar to the controversial reappropriation of the word nigger, the word chink has sometimes been used in a positive manner.[19] For example, Leehom Wang, a Taiwanese American musician, named his Asian hip-hop fusion genre chinked-out in order to neutralize the term. Eventually Wang hopes the term will become “cool” ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-idea-in-years-nfl-may-penalize-racial-slurs/682006/59 "2014-02-28T06:00:54Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > We’re all products of our time, and there’s nothing wrong with pointing out that we all reflect the prejudices of the times and places we come from. If you meet someone who sticks to a prejudice because that’s what their parents or grandparents believe, they’re extremely closed-minded. And if they refuse to be tolerant because they think that criticizing an outdated point of view is an insult to an elderly relative, that person is an oversensitive twit. My grandparents were good people but they _did_ sometimes say things that were a little racist. I had no problem calling them on it, and I think that’s the right thing to do. Do you feel that you coddled your grandparents? I don’t. I think that you treated them with common courtesy. All I am suggesting here is that we behave that same way toward people who make racist comments. Call them on it and criticize the behavior but not in an insulting manner. I mean, if they aren’t being hostile. If you see a guy in a Confederate flag hat calling adult black men “Boy” and telling them to learn their place or something then you know right away what kind of jackhole you are dealing with and should act accordingly. And lets not forget that we are the product of our times too. Racism didn’t disappear back in the 50s. As you pointed out, racism isn’t (usually) as direct as it used to be but kids are still learning it. I believe that if we are able to be more open and honest with ourselves about our own racism we are in a better position to stop the cycle of teaching hate. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-idea-in-years-nfl-may-penalize-racial-slurs/682006/60 "2014-03-01T07:06:49Z")
> [@2sense](#): > > Do you feel that you coddled your grandparents? I don’t. I think that you treated them with common courtesy. I’m not sure I was that courteous. I told them they were wrong because they were; beyond that there wasn’t anything to do because they weren’t going to get clued in and they weren’t going to hurt anyone. > [@](#): > > All I am suggesting here is that we behave that same way toward people who make racist comments. Call them on it and criticize the behavior but not in an insulting manner. I mean, if they aren’t being hostile. I’ll say it again, then: Saying “that’s wrong and racist” is not insulting anyone. And I think you’ve changed your proposal a couple of times. And I’ll reiterate that I’m supportive of being polite to people who actually want to listen. But when they’re not, I think we should treat them accordingly instead of being extra nice for fear of offending them (or their grandchildren or whomever). And I think you’re wrong if you think we should reserve the word “racist” only for people who are deliberately trying to oppress people. That’s not where most racism comes from and I’m argue it’s not even the most significant kind. It’s just the easiest to spot. > [@](#): > > I believe that if we are able to be more open and honest with ourselves about our own racism we are in a better position to stop the cycle of teaching hate. And these days I’m less concerned about everybody’s feelings and more with the systemic effects of racism in our society. It’s very nice if people are open about their own flaws, but since the kind of open racism we’re discussing has been in decline for decades, how much difference does it make? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-idea-in-years-nfl-may-penalize-racial-slurs/682006.md?page=2)