Greatest Military Leader elimination game (game thread)

I also agree with Tom Scud’s proposed change to the final rounds of voting.

My picks under the current system:

Alexander - 2 votes.
Wellington - 2 votes.
Hannibal - 1 vote.

Howabout 77 votes, but you can only cast them for a single candidate. Think how impressive the totals will look! :wink:

Georgy Zhukov - 2

Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington - 2

Duke of Wellington - 2

Julius Caesar - 2

Duke of Wellington - 2

The votes in our 27th round:

Duke of Wellington - 14

Hannibal - 10
Georgy Zhukov - 8
Alexander the Great - 4
Genghis Khan - 2
Julius Caesar - 2

Interestingly, these were all in exactly the same order (two even had the same totals!) as in the previous round.

The boldfaced leader(s) above are now gone. That leaves our Top Five:

Alexander the Great: Conquered the known world
Genghis Khan: Built the perfect war machine
Hannibal: Greatest tactical genius?
Julius Caesar: Rome’s most brilliant commander
Georgy Zhukov: Led from Moscow to Berlin

Eliminated so far:

George B. McClellan
Charles the Bold
Hernan Cortez
Douglas MacArthur
Pompey Magnus
Carl von Clausewitz
Robert E. Lee
Josip Broz Tito
Zachary Taylor
John S. McCain Sr.
Titokowaru
Albert Kesselring
Curtis Le May
Sun Tzu
Gabriel Dumont
Charles Upham
Richard H. O’Kane
Charles de Gaulle
Paul von Hindenburg
Marc Mitscher
Flavius Aetius
Mehmet the Conqueror
Pyrrhus
Orde Wingate
Paul Emil von Lettow-Vorbeck
Sebastien Le Prestre de Vauban
Tsao Tsao (also Cao Cao)
Hugh Dowding
Yamamoto Isoroku
Sir Isaac Brock
Moshe Dayan
Michiel Adriaenszoon de Ruyter
Phil Sheridan
Dwight D. Eisenhower
Kong Ming/Zhuge Liang
Henry V
John Paul Jones
Vo Nguyen Giap
Attila the Hun
Togo Heihachiro
Bernard Montgomery
Erich von Manstein
George S. Patton
Philip II of Macedon
Gaius Marius
Akbar the Great
Arthur Currie
Yi-Sun Shin
George Washington
Oda Nobunaga
Erwin Rommel
Belisarius
U.S. Grant
Timur-e-Lang
Stonewall Jackson
Frederick the Great
Napoleon Bonaparte
Themistocles
Gustavus Adolphus
William T. Sherman
Lord Nelson
Subutai
Scipio Africanus
Duke of Marlborough
Khalid ibn al-Walid
Duke of Wellington

New Rules: As suggested by Tom Scud, you each now have three votes, with a maximum of two on any single candidate. We’ll go to a single vote each once we hit the Final Three.

The next round will conclude at noon EST on Fri. Oct. 22.

Hannibal - 2
Georgy Zhukov - 1

I’ll do a “reverse Tom Scud”:

Georgy Zhukov – 2
Hannibal – 1

Caesar - 2

Zhukov - 1

Farewell, Iron Duke. You had a good run!

Georgy Zhukov – 2
Hannibal – 1

Alexander -2 votes
Hannibal - 1 vote

It’ll be interesting to see if Hannibal manages to outlast Zhukov - I have a feeling that Zhukov’s support is softer than Hannibal’s among the voters.

As lisiate goes, so goes Elendil’s Heir:

Alexander - 2
Hannibal - 1

Maybe, but I’m none to sure you’re correct. He’s getting a bit more love than I would have expected going into this game.

Georgy Zhukov - 2.

Now my own biases are clear - I’d rather see Hannibal beat Zhukov head to head. I could game the system some more and just not vote for Hannibal to try and preserve Zhukov’s “lead.” But that does seem a little punkish, as Hannibal really is next in line on my hit list. And it’s not as if this is a matter of national importance ;). Oh, well…

Hannibal - 1

Hannibal 2
Alexander 1

The anti-Alexander votes intrigue me – I wonder if anyone cares to explain their reasoning? Is it because he took Daddy’s army out for a joyride? :wink:

Considering we’re talking about life and death on a societal scale (ask Hannibal’ Carthaginians what was at stake) across the full sweep of human history, at this point in the elimination process we’re making very fine (if not entirely arbitrary) distinctions between giants.

Although I have argued consistently for Zhukov’s presence on the list, I do feel there are arguments to be made against him. Chief among those would be the fact that he was not ultimately in control of grand strategy (a problem Hannibal shared) and perhaps that he was part of a very successful system – that he helped re-create after the effects of both Stalin’s purges and the 1941 collapse – but that he did not stand above that system like Alexander nor create it out of nothing like Ghengis Khan.

Although this is dangerous in that it disadvantages any modern commander, it could also be argued that Zhukov’s exercise of command from behind the front is less impressive than leading from the front lines in hand-to-hand melee…although it’s also true that personal courage and charisma will fall flat if your staff work and logistics fail you, so that argument could be made both ways.

Ultimately I suppose it comes down to my feeling that Hannibal’s achievements were entirely the result of his own efforts, and Zhukov’s were critical contributions to an enormous system to which many other people also contributed.

I also remain not entirely convinced Caesar belongs in the final three, which presents me with a conundrum: if I vote against Hannibal for reasons given last time, and weigh a tad more heavily against Zhukov, as described above, I have to vote 1 and 2 and am out of votes to make what will surely be only a protest vote against Iulius.

Frankly, I’m having a terrible time deciding if Hannibal should trump Caesar. I think Hannibal could probably have done more with less than Caesar could, but ultimately Caesar’s judgments always bore fruit (except maybe taking Brutus under his wing) and Hannibal’s entire war did not.

Zhukov - 2
Hannibal -1

Hannibal - 2. It’s time for the only loser on this list to, well, lose.

I’m holding my last vote in reserve for the moment (punkish or no), but I would suggest that Sailboat is not wholly correct in denying that Zhukov “stood above” the Soviet system. He forged the shattered and demoralized Red Army into a force that could sponge and purge and blast from the surface of the Earth every trace of Hitler’s footsteps, every stain of his infected, corroding fingers, and teach the German homeland well that war is not all war and triumph. (Apologies to Churchill.) And he killed a lot of Nazis doing it. :smiley: That’s an accomplishment at least on a par with Alexander’s.

BTW, does this mean that Hannibal, Zhukov, Alexander, Caesar and Genghis Khan were all Cylons?

One thing, and one thing only…

I want to keep Zhukov, at least for now, because he was (a) an extraordinarily talented general, and (b) is the only modern guy still left. As bloody as the 20th century was, there ought to be at least one military representative of it here.

He was a flash-in-the-pan compared with Caesar, Zhukov, and Genghis.