Two for the rebel, traitor and slaver Robert E. Lee.
Two for Pompey Magnus - though I hasten to add that, unlike Lee, I’ve nothing at all against the man personally. Other than the whole Sulla thing. Proscriptions aren’t cool.
And, eh, one for Clausewitz - I’m convniced he deserves to get voted off the Island.
1 - Josef Tito. More politician than general.
2 - Titokowaru. Cannibal. 'nuff said.
2 - Pompey Magnus. Not really that great as a general. Yes he beat the pirates; but when faced with a real challenge, he caved.
Titokowaru – 2 points
Pompey Magnus – 2 points
Gabriel Dumont – 1 point
Wow, already time. Looks like I got Cortez, so options are left.
Robert E. Lee - 2pt. I feel the third round is long enough. Anyway, it’s important that he goes out before Sherman, in my mind, since there isn’t a single way in which he’s better.
Curtis LeMay - 1pt. Still nothing stellar about him.
Joseph Tito - 1pt. He seems like a better choice than Charles De Gualle, and the same criticism applies. (You’re through for now, Charlie! But I’m coming for you soon!)
Charles Upham - 1pt. Nice to see he’s hanging in, even if I think he should be gone. 
I concur.
2 for Sherman
2 for Grant
1 for Sherridan
That’s “Sheridan” with one “r,” BTW.
Carl von Clausewitz - an influential thinker and writer but not a military leader, as such - 2
Zachary Taylor - just doesn’t deserve to be in such stellar company - 2
Charles de Gaulle - did much more as a politician than as a military leader - 1
Robert E. Lee - slaveholder, oathbreaker, traitor, loser - 2
Stonewall Jackson - 2
Clausewitz - 1
Interesting how this is shaping up - fighting the Civil War by proxy all over again :p.
On the one hand looking more closely at it, there are quite a few Americans on the list ( said the American ) and losing a few wouldn’t hurt. One the other hand for the reasons I stated earlier my own biases would lead me to vote for someone like O’Kane before any of those guys. He just is a rather lesser figure historically. At a threat of drawing down ire on my head I think I’d vote the CW guys off ( from first to last ) in the order of Sheridan>Grant>Lee>Sherman>Jackson. But a few others would have to go first.
Actually it’s too bad we didn’t get any Amerindian leaders on the list - folks like Little Turtle or Lautaro are certainly more than compeititive with the likes of Dumont or Titokowaru IMHO. But as noted there are a whole slew of leaders that could have made it. I blame Elendil’s Heir for not giving us 15 choices each ;).
Anyway I’ll partially suspend my unpopular campaign against the minor tactical leaders and re-order my priorities.
Clausewitz - 2. Just not at all important as a field commander.
Zachary Taylor - 2. If we have to bump an American general of this general era, I’d guess I’d take Taylor marginally before Sheridan.
Charles Upham - 1. For reasons already stated.
I’ll stick to my votes from last week:
Clausewitz - 2 votes
Pompey Magnus - 2 votes
Zachary Taylor - 2 votes.
I agree with Tamerlane that the list is very Americo-centric and it’s a shame that many diverse figures didn’t make the cut.
As the person who put forward Titokowaru I’d ask those who are for voting him out whether cannibalism really has any bearing on the issue at hand. Unlike many others on the list Titokowaru led an army inferior in numbers and equipment against the greatest power of the time and beat them three times - read Titokowaru’s War. Yes the numbers are small but to my mind that shouldn’t matter. Compared to many of the administrators on the list I believe that he should stay around for a while longer.
hey why does Lisiate get 6 votes?
Robert E. Lee 2 : getting a headache from the rebel yell
**Pompey Magnus **2: mostly based on the HBO serie, he was afraid to face Caesar even with more troops , and when forced to do battle in Greece(with tactical and numerical advantage) got his ass kicked
**Pyrrhus **:1
Pompey Magnus: 2 votes.
Robert E. Lee: 2 votes.
Clausewitz: 1 vote.
Clausewitz: 2
Tito: 2
Kesselring: 1
Good catch. Assuming lisiate ranked his generals by order of priority and not alphabetically, I’ll just knock one vote off Taylor unless lisiate returns to the thread before noon today to correct it.
Done and done. Thanks, everybody. The votes in our third round:
Pompey Magnus - 12
Carl von Clausewitz - 11
Robert E. Lee - 10
Ulysses S. Grant, William T. Sherman, Zachary Taylor, Josip Broz Tito, Titokowaru - 4 each
Stonewall Jackson, Phil Sheridan, Charles Upham - 2 each
Charles de Gaulle, Gabriel Dumont, Albert Kesselring, Curtis LeMay, Pyrrhus - 1 each
The top three are gone. The next round will conclude at noon EST on Weds. Aug. 25. Same rules as before.
Here’s our list of surviving nominees:
Akbar the Great: Conquered much of India
Alexander the Great: Conquered the known world
Attila the Hun: Scourge of God, and Rome.
Belisarius: Justinian’s hammer
Napoleon Bonaparte: Conquered most of Europe
Sir Isaac Brock: Saved Canada against overwhelming odds
Arthur Currie: Vimy Ridge; only sane WW1 leader?
Moshe Dayan: Eye-patched Israeli commander
Charles de Gaulle: Led Free French forces
Michiel Adriaenszoon de Ruyter: Dutch admiral, naval star
Hugh Dowding: Won Battle of Britain
Gabriel Dumont: Metis guerrilla warfare strategist
Dwight D. Eisenhower: Defeated Nazis in Western Europe
Flavius Aetius: Scourge of Attila
Frederick the Great: Prussian king and battlefield genius
Gaius Marius: Most important military reforms ever?
Genghis Khan: Built the perfect war machine
Vo Nguyen Giap: Won Dien Bien Phu, Vietnam
Ulysses S. Grant: Won final victory for Union
Gustavus Adolphus: Made Sweden a great power
Hannibal: Greatest tactical genius?
Henry V: Warrior-king; won at Agincourt
Thomas J. “Stonewall” Jackson: Embodiment of maneuver and offense
John Paul Jones: Great American, Russian naval commander
Julius Caesar: Rome’s most brilliant commander
Paul von Hindenburg: German field marshal
Albert Kesselring: Defended Italy from Allies
Khalid ibn al-Walid: Architect of the Arab conquests.
Kong Ming/Zhuge Liang: Great Chinese tactician
Curtis LeMay: Reorganized Strategic Air Command
Paul Emil von Lettow-Vorbeck: Evaded the British in Africa
Erich von Manstein: His plan conquered France
Duke of Marlborough: Master of early modern war
John S. McCain Sr.: American admiral in Pacific
Mehmet the Conqueror: Took Constantinople
Marc Mitscher: Master of operational carrier warfare
Bernard Montgomery: British commander at El Alamein
Lord Nelson: Royal Navy admiral; Trafalgar victor
Oda Nobunaga: First great unifier of Japan
Richard H. O’Kane: Top U.S. submarine captain, WW2
George Patton: Armored warfare advocate
Phillip II of Macedon: Alexander’s father, set the stage
Pyrrhus: King of Epirus; opposed Rome
Erwin Rommel: Germany’s Desert Fox
Scipio Africanus: Stopped Carthage and Hannibal
Philip “Little Phil” Sheridan: Grant’s troubleshooter; Indian fighter extraordinaire
William Tecumseh Sherman: Logistics, maneuver as strategic warfare
Subutai: Genghis Khan’s top general
Sun Tzu: General; influential Chinese military theorist
Zachary Taylor: American general; Mexican War hero
Themistocles: Victor of Marathon, Artemisium, Salamis
Timur-e-Lang: The scourge of Western Asia
Josip Broz Tito: Kicked Germans out of Yugoslavia
Titokowaru: Beat the British twice
Togo Heihachiro: Japanese naval victor against Russians
Tsao Tsao (also Cao Cao): Chinese emperor, general
Charles Upham: Modern hero in ancient mould
Sebastien Le Prestre de Vauban: Great French military engineer
George Washington: Determined general; won American independence
Duke of Wellington: Successes in India; thrashed Napoleon
Orde Wingate: Unorthodox leader in Africa, Asia
Yamamoto Isoroku: WW2 Japanese naval leader
Yi-Sun Shin: Noteworthy Korean admiral
Georgy Zhukov: Led from Moscow to Berlin
Eliminated:
George B. McClellan
Charles the Bold
Hernan Cortez
Douglas MacArthur
Pompey Magnus
Carl von Clausewitz
Robert E. Lee
Titokowaru: 2. I have a similar bias as Tamerlane, as I think that if a leader is going to be renowned for his tactical achievements, those achievements have to be extremely impressive (on the level of Hannibal). Titokowaru seems like a cunning guerrilla leader, but I don’t think he achieved anything that couldn’t have been thwarted by a larger force commitment by the British.
Josip Broz Tito: 2
Gabriel Dumont: 1
to speed this along, i’m not going to vote 2’s anymore.
de gaulle
aetius
lemay
grant
taylor
Ooooh, I can’t believe Marse Robert is gone!
Unforeseen side effect of pushback against the Sherman/Grant hatred, I guess. I have a hard time believing that Lee, for all his faults, is out, and Tito, Dumont, Dayan, Kesselring and the like soldier onward. Lee may well have been a traitor; but he was daring and resourceful as an underdog. IMHO his faults were perhaps too much commitment to offense for his troop strength to bear, and, first and foremost, a fixation on Virginia that limited his strategic thinking when it came to the Western theater.
Ah well.
Note to the Sherman/Grant haters: do you really think Sherman’s daring departure from a firm supply base and adventure deep into enemy territory, and Grant’s seizing on every moment of weakness in the West and relentlessly grinding down his tricky foe in the East (and winning) make them lesser military figures than a couple of bush guerillas, a communist strongman, and some armchair theorist(s)?
These men led large armies for years against highly-regarded opposition, and their triumph (though galling to you personally) was complete. No one is asking if Genghis Khan helped little old ladies across the street, are they?
Well said, Sailboat. Very well said indeed. I never did get around to voting against Lee, loathe him as I do for being (in Ken Burns’s memorable phrase, which got him booted out of the Sons of Confederate Veterans) “responsible for more loyal U.S. troops’ deaths than Hitler and Tojo combined,” because I agree with you that he was a lot better as a military commander than many who remain.
My votes this round:
Albert Kesselring - I don’t like Nazis, and he wasn’t their best field commander - 2
And as before:
Zachary Taylor - just doesn’t deserve to be in such stellar company - 2
Charles de Gaulle - did much more as a politician than as a military leader - 1
Tito: 2
McCain: 2 (He seems to have been no more than a minor WW2 admiral?)
Taylor: 1