# Greatest National Leader elimination game (game thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 20, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-game-thread/540098 "2010-05-20T03:40:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-game-thread/540098/61 "2010-05-28T21:42:44Z")
Menes - 2 Victoria - 2 Wellington - 1 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-game-thread/540098/62 "2010-05-28T21:49:29Z")
A word on de Gaulle, not that he’s starting to get some votes. I once said that Charles de Gaulle was the greatest politician of the 20th century. And I think that stands. Keep in mind where he started: He didn’t even have a country, France had been defeated and was half-occupied and half-run by a collaborationist regime. De Gaulle had to invent a government in exile and convince people both that France was still a great power that deserved respect and that he was its representative. And amazingly he succeeded - within five years he was the undisputed leader of a major power. And not as a dictator - he ruled with the support of his countrymen. ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-game-thread/540098/63 "2010-05-28T22:43:44Z")
It’s a matter of principle or stubbornness (you decide): Duke of Wellington – 2 Oliver Cromwell – 2 Since Santa Anna is gone, I’ll give a debut nod to Lech Walesa – 1 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-game-thread/540098/64 "2010-05-29T00:03:26Z")
Moses 2 David 2 Walesa 1 Let’s get rid of the fictional characters, shall we? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-game-thread/540098/65 "2010-05-29T00:08:22Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Moses 2 > David 2 > Walesa 1 > > Let’s get rid of the fictional characters, shall we? Hmm. I could’ve _sworn_ I saw Walesa on a news show once. The Duke of Wellington, whose best days were in uniform, not as PM - 1 Oliver Cromwell, who wanted to rule just like a king but was too much a hypocrite to actually claim the title - 2 Genghis Khan, more a destroyer than a builder - 2 ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-game-thread/540098/66 "2010-05-29T03:28:12Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Moses 2 > David 2 > Let’s get rid of the fictional characters, shall we? Already eliminated as of post #47 :). **Wellington** - 1 **Lech Walesa** - 1 **Henry V** - 1 **Meiji** - 1 **Victoria** - 1 - She was just a little less of a figurehead than Meiji, but still far more of a symbol than an actual political leader. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-game-thread/540098/67 "2010-05-29T08:53:31Z")
**Lech Walesa** - 2 points **Asoka** - 1 point **Justinian I** - 2 points ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-game-thread/540098/68 "2010-06-01T02:07:59Z")
The votes: **Lech Walesa 6 Duke of Wellington 5 Queen Victoria 5 Oliver Cromwell 4** De Gaulle, Genghis Khan, Henry V, Mandela, Menes, Nehru - 2 each Asoka, Justinian, Meiji Emperor - 1 each The top four are now gone. Not a good round for the Brits! That leaves: Alexander the Great - Macedonian conqueror, emperor Alfred the Great - Scholar, warrior, statesman Asoka - Early India leader Mustafa Kemal Ataturk - Modernized, ruled Turkey Caesar Augustus - Founded Roman Empire David Ben-Gurion - First Israeli PM Otto von Bismarck - United German kingdoms Simon Bolivar - Latin America liberator Gaius Julius Caesar - Roman dictator, general Charlemagne - Holy Roman Emperor Winston Churchill - British wartime inspiration Cyrus the Great - Great, benevolent conqueror Charles de Gaulle - Led modern France Deng Xiaoping - Remade modern China Elizabeth I of England - Shrewd, determined queen Frederick II - Ruled 1700s Prussia Gandhi - Independence through peace Genghis Khan - Mongol Empire founder Mikhail Gorbachev - Reformed Soviet Union Hammurabi - First written laws Henry V of England - Legendary warrior-king Isabella I of Castille - Unified, developed Spain Thomas Jefferson - Declaration of Independence Justinian I - Unleashed Gen. Belisarius Abraham Lincoln - Won Civil War Louis XIV - France’s “Sun King” Nelson Mandela - Overcame imprisonment, triumphed Tomas Masaryk - Czechoslovakia’s founding president Meiji Emperor - Created modern Japan Menes - Egypt-uniting pharaoh Muhammad - United all Arabia Napoleon I - French expansionist emperor Nebuchadnezzar II - Babylon’s greatest ruler Jawaharlal Nehru - Indian prime minister Rameses II - Egypt’s greatest pharaoh Franklin Delano Roosevelt - 32nd American president Peter the Great - Modernized, expanded Russia Pitt the Elder - Noted British PM Anwar El Sadat - Egyptian warrior, peacemaker Saladin - Muslim leader, warrior Shaka Zulu - United Zulu tribes Qin Shi Huang - Unified China emperor Solon - Founded Athenian democracy Tamerlane the Great - Clever, liberal conqueror Umar - Expanded Islamic empire George Washington - First U.S. president The current round of voting will end on Weds. June 2 at noon EST. Same rules as before. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-game-thread/540098/69 "2010-06-01T02:23:57Z")
Tamerlane-2 votes Tomas Masayrk-2 votes Charles DeGaulle-1 vote ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-game-thread/540098/70 "2010-06-01T02:35:35Z")
With my choices from the last round all eliminated, it’s time to pick some new guys: Meiji Emperor – 2 points Pitt the Elder – 2 points Gandhi – 1 point ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-game-thread/540098/71 "2010-06-01T03:28:33Z")
> [@Sternvogel](#): > > … > Meiji Emperor – 2 points… Tell me more about the Meiji Emperor. What’s your beef with him? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-game-thread/540098/72 "2010-06-01T08:20:59Z")
Henry V - 2 Jawaharlal Nehru - 1 Charles de Gaulle - 1 Solon - 1 Most of the remaining names seem truly “great.” I hope advocates will post staunch defenses for their favorites. Otherwise I might vote to eliminate, say, Tomas Masaryk, on the grounds that however great _he_ was, his country was never particularly great. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-game-thread/540098/73 "2010-06-01T09:02:31Z")
1 - Mandela - it’s really far too soon to tell 2 - de Gaulle - a bit player in WW2, obstructionist afterwards. 1 - Alexander - his empire didn’t last. 1 - Sadat - not in the same class as the rest. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-game-thread/540098/74 "2010-06-01T15:23:17Z")
Deng Xiaoping, liberalized China’s economy but still an autocrat with the blood of Tiananmen Square on his hands - 2 Genghis Khan, more a destroyer than a builder - 2 Thomas Jefferson, a hypocrite (slavery, the French Revolution) and a sneak (secretly funding an opposition newspaper while serving in Washington’s Cabinet) who’s vastly overrated as President - 1 ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-game-thread/540098/75 "2010-06-02T00:36:24Z")
Can I re-use my votes/nominations from the last round? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-game-thread/540098/76 "2010-06-02T06:12:51Z")
**Henry V** - 1pt. - Still a very short reign. **Meiji** - 2 pts. **Victoria** - 2 pts. The problem with both of the latter two above is you have to stretch to call them “national leaders.” Both were technical heads of state and both exerted a very powerful symbolic uniting presence for their respective countries. But both were also figureheads to one extent or another with sharply limited political power and no real decision-making functions. For the most part they simply didn’t _do_ much, outside of the ceremonial. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-game-thread/540098/77 "2010-06-02T06:56:20Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Victoria - 2 pts. I also think Victoria is over-rated and was surprised I didn’t vote for her this round. … Then I looked again and saw _she’s already been eliminated_. PS: No “thank you” for my nominating _you_, **Tamerlane**? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-game-thread/540098/78 "2010-06-02T13:37:50Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Can I re-use my votes/nominations from the last round? You mean you just want to vote for the same people again? I suppose - just re-post them now, if so. I’d rather not have to go back and find what people did before the last tally. ---
**Author:** ![XanderCrews](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ee59a6/32.png) [@XanderCrews](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XanderCrews)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-game-thread/540098/79 "2010-06-03T00:13:13Z")
Umar-2 Julius Caesar-2 Mandela-1 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-game-thread/540098/80 "2010-06-03T01:41:15Z")
The votes: **Charles De Gaulle - 4 Meiji Emperor - 4 Henry V of England - 3** Deng Xiaoping, Genghis Khan, Pitt the Elder, Tamerlane, Tomas Masaryk - 2 each Alexander, Gandhi, Jefferson, Mandela, Nehru, Sadat, Solon - 1 each **XanderCrews** , I didn’t count your votes, as you cast them after the noon deadline today. Please vote in the next round. The top three are now gone. That leaves: Alexander the Great - Macedonian conqueror, emperor Alfred the Great - Scholar, warrior, statesman Asoka - Early India leader Mustafa Kemal Ataturk - Modernized, ruled Turkey Caesar Augustus - Founded Roman Empire David Ben-Gurion - First Israeli PM Otto von Bismarck - United German kingdoms Simon Bolivar - Latin America liberator Gaius Julius Caesar - Roman dictator, general Charlemagne - Holy Roman Emperor Winston Churchill - British wartime inspiration Cyrus the Great - Great, benevolent conqueror Deng Xiaoping - Remade modern China Elizabeth I of England - Shrewd, determined queen Frederick II - Ruled 1700s Prussia Gandhi - Independence through peace Genghis Khan - Mongol Empire founder Mikhail Gorbachev - Reformed Soviet Union Hammurabi - First written laws Isabella I of Castille - Unified, developed Spain Thomas Jefferson - Declaration of Independence Justinian I - Unleashed Gen. Belisarius Abraham Lincoln - Won Civil War Louis XIV - France’s “Sun King” Nelson Mandela - Overcame imprisonment, triumphed Tomas Masaryk - Czechoslovakia’s founding president Menes - Egypt-uniting pharaoh Muhammad - United all Arabia Napoleon I - French expansionist emperor Nebuchadnezzar II - Babylon’s greatest ruler Jawaharlal Nehru - Indian prime minister Rameses II - Egypt’s greatest pharaoh Franklin Delano Roosevelt - 32nd American president Peter the Great - Modernized, expanded Russia Pitt the Elder - Noted British PM Anwar El Sadat - Egyptian warrior, peacemaker Saladin - Muslim leader, warrior Shaka Zulu - United Zulu tribes Qin Shi Huang - Unified China emperor Solon - Founded Athenian democracy Tamerlane the Great - Clever, liberal conqueror Umar - Expanded Islamic empire George Washington - First U.S. president The current round of voting will end on Fri. June 4 at noon EST. New rules: Each player now has eight votes, but may use no more than two against any particular leader at a time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-game-thread/540098.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-game-thread/540098.md?page=5)