# Greatest National Leader elimination game (setup thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 13, 2010, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/539266 "2010-05-13T03:37:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/539266/21 "2010-05-14T01:46:48Z")
Queen Victoria- Hurrah For Empire! Kaiser Wilhelm II- WWI German Leader Robert The Bruce- 1st Scottish King Shaka Zulu- United Zulu Tribes Pancho Villa- Mexican Revolutionary General ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/539266/22 "2010-05-14T03:25:31Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > …Pancho Villa- Mexican Revolutionary General Although Villa held a Mexican state governor post for two years, and was a regional strongman, he was never a national leader as defined in the OP, I think. I’m open to persuasion otherwise. **YogSosoth** , FDR had already been nominated by **AClockworkMelon**. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/539266/23 "2010-05-14T03:32:29Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Although Villa held a Mexican state governor post for two years, and was a regional strongman, he was never a national leader as defined in the OP, I think. I’m open to persuasion otherwise. From what I can tell, during the Mexican Revolutionary War, the country was incredibly fractured, especially in the north (where Villa was operating). For all intents and purposes he was leading a country (or something approximating it; certainly a more or less autonomous area). And he’s still seen as a Mexican Hero these days, so in that sense he’s also a National Leader IMHO. If you’re still not convinced, we could add: Jefferson Davis: The Confederate President But Pancho Villa filmed his Revolution and starred in it as himself, which is far cooler than being the runner-up in the US Civil War. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/539266/24 "2010-05-14T11:46:57Z")
Moses - founder of all monotheistic religions, concept of moral laws (sorry, that’s more than three words) Thomas Jefferson - created U.S. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/539266/25 "2010-05-14T12:51:25Z")
Hmmm. I don’t think of Moses as a national leader, as such (more of a religious/ethnic leader), but I could be persuaded otherwise. And **XanderCrews** already nominated Jefferson. I’m not entirely convinced about Pancho Villa, **Martini Enfield** , but I’ll let him stay in the game, at least for the moment. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/539266/26 "2010-05-14T12:53:16Z")
Just making a prediction: Moses will be voted out immediately like he was in the other threads either for being a fictional character or for being a religious leader/military general rather than a national leader. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/539266/27 "2010-05-14T13:53:59Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Just making a prediction: Moses will be voted out immediately like he was in the other threads either for being a fictional character or for being a religious leader/military general rather than a national leader. Can’t speak for anyone else, but I’ve got at least 3 people on my hit list (4 if Jeff Dave is in) ahead of Moses. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/539266/28 "2010-05-14T16:02:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Henry V of England: Legendary warrior-king. Fair warning: I’ll need a lot of convincing or I’ll vote to eliminate him very early. England had at least 4 or 5 Kings named Henry more important, IMO, than number V. (Admittedly “important” isn’t the same as “great.”) I didn’t nominate any of those other Henry’s, going instead with Alfred, without whom Great Britain would be speaking Danish. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/539266/29 "2010-05-14T16:36:14Z")
I’m somewhat murky on what constitutes a “nation” for some of these putative national leaders. I’m not certain Ghengis Khan led “a nation;” Shaka Zulu probably _does_ count, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/539266/30 "2010-05-14T16:42:26Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > I’m somewhat murky on what constitutes a “nation” for some of these putative national leaders. I’m not certain Ghengis Khan led “a nation;” [I always thought so.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_Empire) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/539266/31 "2010-05-14T19:03:23Z")
Our nominees so far: Alexander the Great - Dude could conquer Alfred the Great - scholar, warrior, statesman Cory Aquino - Phillipine democracy restoration Asoka - 3rd century BC India Mustafa Kemal Ataturk - modernized Turkey Caesar Augustus: founded Roman Empire. Attila the Hun - humble, fearsome conqueror David Ben-Gurion - First Israeli PM Otto von Bismarck - United Germany Simon Bolivar- independent Latin America Gaius Julius Caesar - Roman Dictator and General Fidel Castro- communist Cuba Charlemagne, Imperator Romanorum Winston Churchill – British wartime inspiration Oliver Cromwell- England a republic Cyrus the Great - great, benevolent conqueror Charles de Gaulle - 20th century France David - Conquered the Philistines Jefferson Davis: The Confederate President (assuming this was a real nomination) Deng Xiaoping - Made modern China. Elizabeth I of England: Shrewd, determined queen. Frederick II - 18th century Prussia Gandhi - Independence through peace Genghis Khan - Founder of the Mongol Empire Gorbachev - Cool birthmark Hammurabi - first written laws Henry V of England: Legendary warrior-king. Adolf Hitler - Nazi German Leader Isabella I of Castille - unified & developed Spain Thomas Jefferson- Declaration of Independence Justinian I - Unleashed Belisarius. Abraham Lincoln: Won Civil War. Louis XIV – France’s “Sun King” Nelson Mandela: Overcame imprisonment, triumphed. Mao Zedong, Chinese revolutionary Thomas Masaryk – Czechoslovakia’s founding president The Meiji Emperor of Japan Menes - United Egypt Montezuma - Aztec leader Moses - founder of all monotheistic religions Muhammad - United Arabia Napoleon I - French Expansionist Emperor Nebuchadnezzar II - Babylon’s greatest ruler Jawaharlal Nehru, Indian Prime Minister Rameses II - Egypt’s greatest pharaoh Franklin Delano Roosevelt - 32nd American President Peter the Great- modernized Russia Pitt the Elder - 18th century Britain Robert The Bruce- 1st Scottish King Anwar El Sadat – Egyptian warrior, peacemaker Saladin - Muslim leader General Antonio López de Santa Anna - Mexican nationalist leader Haile Selassie – Ethiopia’s longtime emperor Shaka Zulu- United Zulu Tribes Qin Shi Huang - Made China Solon - founded Athenian democracy Tamerlane the Great - clever, liberal conqueror Umar - expanded Islamic empire Queen Victoria- Hurrah For Empire! Pancho Villa- Mexican Revolutionary General Lech Walesa - 20th century Poland George Washington: First U.S. president. Wellington: Statesman, general, gentleman. Kaiser Wilhelm II- WWI German Leader ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/539266/32 "2010-05-14T19:04:59Z")
I count 64, which is not a bad number to start with for this kind of game. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/539266/33 "2010-05-14T19:06:23Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Moses - founder of all monotheistic religions … So you [subscribe](http://www.greatdreams.com/moses.htm) to [the theory](http://www.dwij.org/forum/amarna/10_moses_akhenaten.htm) that [Moses and Akhenaten were the same person](http://store.innertraditions.com/Product.jmdx;jsessionid=91425F3D7E64DF559523B4154430000C?action=displayDetail&id=166&searchString=978-1-59143-004-9) ? Maybe; I don’t know. **Diogenes** definitely disagrees; maybe he’ll show up and argue. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/539266/34 "2010-05-14T20:34:38Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > I count 64, which is not a bad number to start with for this kind of game. True, but nominations will still close at noon EST on Weds. May 19, as provided in the OP. I reserve the right to edit the three-word (or longer) descriptions as necessary for accuracy, clarity and consistency. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/539266/35 "2010-05-19T19:53:11Z")
So. Game thread soon? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/539266/36 "2010-05-19T20:25:49Z")
Yup. Tonight, I hope. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/539266/37 "2010-05-20T03:41:59Z")
Thanks for your patience. Game thread here: [Greatest National Leader elimination game (game thread) - The Game Room - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=563867) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-national-leader-elimination-game-setup-thread/539266.md?page=1)