# Greece voted against the bailout. F\*\*\* Them. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 5, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greece-voted-against-the-bailout-f-them/724353 "2015-07-05T22:23:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greece-voted-against-the-bailout-f-them/724353/81 "2015-07-08T07:30:28Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > I stand corrected, but neither humbled or interested. I think readers got my point. If the point was “russian heel is often factually wrong in his opinion”, well yes. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greece-voted-against-the-bailout-f-them/724353/82 "2015-07-08T08:19:31Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > (bolding mine) I assume you realize how that could be seen as bad portent by those who speak English? I speak English, and I don’t see the bad portent. Did you perhaps mean people who speak 'Merkin? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greece-voted-against-the-bailout-f-them/724353/83 "2015-07-08T14:43:35Z")
Every time I speak merkin, it sounds all muffled… ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greece-voted-against-the-bailout-f-them/724353/84 "2015-07-08T14:44:39Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Every time I speak merkin, it sounds all muffled… People will so not understand what you did there. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greece-voted-against-the-bailout-f-them/724353/85 "2015-07-08T15:03:58Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > Oh, Norway, a tiny sliver of ice covered fiords that got lucky because it hit oil. It also has the very important role in European affairs of making the mainland Nordic countries look less like a flaccid dong. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greece-voted-against-the-bailout-f-them/724353/86 "2015-07-08T15:10:11Z")
Did anybody hear the NPR program yesterday? About a German guy who decided to start a business , exporting Greek wine. Now he cannot buy bottles, barrels, most of the stuff he needs to make wine. Plus, he is trying to sell an inferior product in Germany, where consumers pay high prices for high quality wines. That is Greece in a nutshell-unfriendly to business, difficult to work with, and broke to boot. Just how does the government of Greece expect to pay loans back, if they kill off any business capable of generating wealth? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greece-voted-against-the-bailout-f-them/724353/87 "2015-07-08T15:33:53Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Just how does the government of Greece expect to pay loans back, if they kill off any business capable of generating wealth? Miles of pristine beaches full of beautiful women. ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greece-voted-against-the-bailout-f-them/724353/88 "2015-07-08T16:33:36Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > People will so not understand what you did there. Au contraire: I fairly wigged out with laughter… ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greece-voted-against-the-bailout-f-them/724353/89 "2015-07-08T16:42:38Z")
> [@MonkeyMensch](#): > > Au contraire: I fairly wigged out with laughter… I laughed so hard I coughed up the hair in my throat… ---
**Author:** ![RagingxMarmoset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@RagingxMarmoset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RagingxMarmoset)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greece-voted-against-the-bailout-f-them/724353/90 "2015-07-08T17:36:45Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Miles of pristine beaches full of beautiful women. I thought I read somewhere that tourism only made up 16% of their economy. That’s quite a lot, but it seems like it may fall short of propping up the whole works on it’s own. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greece-voted-against-the-bailout-f-them/724353/91 "2015-07-08T21:05:58Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > People will so not understand what you did there. That’s a bald-faced lie 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greece-voted-against-the-bailout-f-them/724353/92 "2015-07-08T22:46:10Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Would it fucking kill you to put some explanation of what the goddamn video is about? We need a new board rule for this bullshit. > > “You post a YouTube link, you explain what it is or suffer an automatic 30 day suspension.” I agree. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greece-voted-against-the-bailout-f-them/724353/93 "2015-07-09T00:50:07Z")
> [@RagingxMarmoset](#): > > I thought I read somewhere that tourism only made up 16% of their economy. The way things are going, it may soon make up 40% - with no increase (indeed, possibly some decrease) in the actual number of tourists. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greece-voted-against-the-bailout-f-them/724353/94 "2015-07-09T00:50:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Robert Reich > > People seem to forget that the Greek debt crisis – which is becoming a European and even possibly a world economic crisis – grew out of a deal with Goldman Sachs, engineered by Goldman’s Lloyd Blankfein. Several years ago, Blankfein and his Goldman team helped Greece hide the true extent of its debt – and in the process almost doubled it. When the first debt deal was struck in 2001, Greece owed about 600 million euros ($793 million) more than the 2.8 billion euros it had borrowed. Goldman then cooked up an off-the-books derivative for Greece that disguised the shortfall but increased the government’s losses to 5.1 billion euros. In 2005, the deal was restructured and the 5.1 billion euro debt was locked in. After that, Goldman and the rest of Wall Street pulled the global economy to its knees – whacking Greece even harder. > > Undoubtedly, Greece suffers from years of corruption and tax avoidance by its wealthy. But Goldman Sachs isn’t exactly innocent. It padded its profits by catastrophically leveraging up the global economy with secret, off-balance-sheet debt deals. Did any of its executives ever go to jail? Of course not. They all got fat bonuses and promotions. Blankfein, now CEO, raked in $24 million in 2014 alone. Meanwhile, the people of Greece struggle to buy medicine and food. > > Doesn’t seem right, does it? I know nothing about this issue but I am left wondering if he’s right . . . ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greece-voted-against-the-bailout-f-them/724353/95 "2015-07-09T00:58:00Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Have you ever moved between countries? > > I did, twice. I also moved within the same country at least a couple dozen times. It was a LOT harder to move between countries. I’ll let you know. Coincidentally,I think I am moving to your city in a couple of months ( I seem to remember you’re in Houston). ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greece-voted-against-the-bailout-f-them/724353/96 "2015-07-09T01:29:12Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I’ll let you know. Coincidentally,I think I am moving to your city in a couple of months ( I seem to remember you’re in Houston). Welcome. Great place. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greece-voted-against-the-bailout-f-them/724353/97 "2015-07-09T13:07:53Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The flip side of that argument is that giving significant concessions to the Greeks would also set a precedent for Portugal, Spain, Italy, and Ireland. So that cuts both ways. Certainly true, and another reason why nobody is going to be happy no matter how this turns out. > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I applaud the wisdom of the Greek people. They have suffered 20%+ unemployment since the beginning of the financial crisis: continued austerity _guaranteed_ more of the same. Only a credulous moron would stick with current policies. The question is if Greece can stick with its current policies without another influx of borrowed money. I don’t think they can, and therefore the credulous morons who think they _can_ stick with current policies are the Greeks. > [@](#): > > Oh but what about that debt? Well the Germans restructured massive debt away after WWII. In 1953 they signed an agreement cutting their debt effectively in half. Reminds me of [something similar that happened in 2011](http://www.marketwatch.com/story/greek-bondholders-to-take-50-haircut-2011-10-26). > [@](#): > > Don’t like it? Tough. That’s why lenders need to practice due diligence, rather than throwing other people’s money at any bozo offering a couple of dozen basis points in additional yield. Words of wisdom, to anyone who ever lends to Greece again. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greece-voted-against-the-bailout-f-them/724353/98 "2015-07-09T14:03:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Certainly true, and another reason why nobody is going to be happy no matter how this turns out. > The question is if Greece can stick with its current policies without another influx of borrowed money. I don’t think they can, and therefore the credulous morons who think they _can_ stick with current policies are the Greeks.Reminds me of [something similar that happened in 2011](http://www.marketwatch.com/story/greek-bondholders-to-take-50-haircut-2011-10-26). > Words of wisdom, to anyone who ever lends to Greece again. > > Regards, > Shodan I don’t recall the Greeks ever getting a haircut on their debt. What I recall was banks that held Greek bonds getting bailed out by their governments when their governments effectively paid them par for their greek debt. Can you link to a cite that shows that the Greeks got loan forgiveness like the Germans did after WWII? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greece-voted-against-the-bailout-f-them/724353/99 "2015-07-09T14:16:08Z")
Read the cite, dumbass. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greece-voted-against-the-bailout-f-them/724353/100 "2015-07-09T14:44:22Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Certainly true, and another reason why nobody is going to be happy no matter how this turns out. Well here’s how I see it: If the Greeks get significant concessions, then it’s hard to imagine that other indebted countries - and their voters and politicians - won’t demand similar concessions. Question is if the Greeks don’t get similar concessions, and leave the Euro. I can see this playing out either way, depending on how things turn out for Greece. If the Greeks suffer some temporary discombobulation but end up clearly better off for having left, then this too would spur similar movements by other countries. If the Greeks are perceived as having suffered longer-lasting harm by having left, then it would not. So ISTM that the extent to which you fear contagion if the Greeks leave depends on how strongly you believe in the benefits of the Euro for countries like Greece. If you genuinely think it’s better (long term) for them to stay in, then you shouldn’t be too worried, because the folly of them leaving will play itself out and deter others who might be contemplating the same. But if you don’t really believe that the Greeks are better off in than out, then you need to be concerned that they’ll prove by example that it’s better to leave, which could spur others to do the same. (There are those who claim it’s better for countries like Greece to stay out, and the real beneficiaries of the common currency are high-cost countries like Germany. However, Germany in this instance is taking a relatively hard-line stance.) I myself don’t know. You need to be more of an economist than I am and have a better knowledge of the Euro issues than I do to know that. But I do think I understand how public opinion works, and subject to the economic issues I see it playing out as above. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greece-voted-against-the-bailout-f-them/724353.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greece-voted-against-the-bailout-f-them/724353.md?page=6)