# Greed on display (plane crash related) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 28, 2009, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greed-on-display-plane-crash-related/483391 "2009-01-28T16:24:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bootis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Bootis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootis)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greed-on-display-plane-crash-related/483391/21 "2009-01-28T23:57:47Z")
If there is any connection at all to the prior incident with the engine of that plane- And I know some people here have blindly stated that there is none, it is a coincidence (which is a weird stance to take before any investigation- there could easily be a connection, it could be the case that engine would have been able to handle the bird if it hadn’t been perviously slightly damaged.) But, if there is a possibility of a connection between the incidents, the airline should certainly be liable for further damages, if they were at all negligent in improperly testing the engine after the stall less than a week before. (And if it is just a coincidence, it seems to be a highly unlikely one- Neither me or anyone I’ve asked has ever experienced anything like the earlier engine stall described) For 2 such rare events to happen to the same plane, within a week, it seems that a more rational stance to take would be to assume one had a hand in the other, until it can be proven that it didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greed-on-display-plane-crash-related/483391/22 "2009-01-29T00:10:01Z")
> [@Bootis](#): > > If there is any connection at all to the prior incident with the engine of that plane- And I know some people here have blindly stated that there is none, it is a coincidence (which is a weird stance to take before any investigation- there could easily be a connection, it could be the case that engine would have been able to handle the bird if it hadn’t been perviously slightly damaged.) But, if there is a possibility of a connection between the incidents, the airline should certainly be liable for further damages, if they were at all negligent in improperly testing the engine after the stall less than a week before. (And if it is just a coincidence, it seems to be a highly unlikely one- Neither me or anyone I’ve asked has ever experienced anything like the earlier engine stall described) For 2 such rare events to happen to the same plane, within a week, it seems that a more rational stance to take would be to assume one had a hand in the other, until it can be proven that it didn’t. According to the aviation experts I’ve heard interviewed on the subject (including one who worked with Sully and has similar credentials) **no** jet engine currently made can handle having a goose fed through it. **None**. If a goose went through each engine (as seems likely), there was fuck all that could have been done to keep those engines running, even if they were fresh out of the box. My understanding about the luggage is that once the crash investigation’s over, folks can get their luggage _back_, so they might not be out all that much, save some inconvience. Personally, I’ve **never** flown with $5K worth of stuff, and I don’t even really **have** $5K worth of stuff that I could take on a plane. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greed-on-display-plane-crash-related/483391/23 "2009-01-29T00:29:17Z")
This is fucking ridiculous. Where is it written that people need to be compensated for every loss? Specifically, when that loss is the result of an unavoidable accident? It doesn’t sound as if the pilot did anything incorrectly. Geese fly where planes fly. Occasionally they strike an engine and all hell breaks loose. If you’re lucky, the pilot has the skill to safely land and you get to live. At that point, material possessions seem a little unimportant. Getting in a car is a risk. Crossing the street is a risk. Flying in a plane is a risk. There’s no guarantee that you’re going to be able to do these things successfully without harm. And while most of the time it’s possible to find someone negligent or responsible, sometimes it’s not. I typically travel with clothes and my laptop, iPod, phone, that kind of stuff. My uni backs up my computer so I would not lose a lot there, but it would probably be close to $5K. (I’m assuming if you had carry on bags they’re mostly intact and can be returned after the investigation.) I think $5K is a generous, no-questions-asked compensation. (I’m assuming you can just ask for it and US Airways gives it to you.) It would be nice for them to help out in other ways, but in taking a potentially fatal accident and managing to successfully land the plane with no lives lost, I think they (through the pilot and crew) have done their job and then some. I imagine if you have PTSD your own insurance should help with treatment. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greed-on-display-plane-crash-related/483391/24 "2009-01-29T00:36:47Z")
Would homeowner’s insurance cover any of the losses? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greed-on-display-plane-crash-related/483391/25 "2009-01-29T00:55:15Z")
> [@XJETGIRLX](#): > > I know for sure that my laptop with all of my work on it, including proposals and documents for clients is worth a hell of a lot more than $5k. What if I had lost several weeks or months worth of work? If the data in your laptop is worth more than $ 5,000, you sure should have a copy of its content handy. Let alone if it contains several weeks or months worth of work. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greed-on-display-plane-crash-related/483391/26 "2009-01-29T01:10:12Z")
Since when do we expect a payout for every single bad thing that happens to us? Shit happens. God doesn’t hand out out reimbursement checks for every bad day. Why do we expect US Air to? It’s nice of them to have given anything. Makes you wonder. There are people out there right now watching their kids die from a lack of a five dollar malaria drug. People who have truly, deeply been shafted by life. But we bandy about words like “justice” when someone’s suit gets ruined. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/59ef9b/32.png) [@Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_fight_the_hypothetical)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greed-on-display-plane-crash-related/483391/27 "2009-01-29T01:17:33Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Would homeowner’s insurance cover any of the losses? Excellent point. Isn’t insuring your stuff _your_ responsibility and not the airlines? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greed-on-display-plane-crash-related/483391/28 "2009-01-29T01:31:59Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > And isn’t he glad he’s alive \*after a plane crash \*to whine about his luggage? Which isn’t what he’s doing…he’s complaining about PTSD and such. > > As for me, I’d just be happy I walked away from a plane crash. Luggage is replaceable. Yes, it might be inconvenient, but in the grand scheme of things…they survived a plane crash (or a forced water landing, however you want to call it.) I agree, Id be fucking thrilled to be alive. I dont travel with anything irreplaceable, my laptop is expensive, but it can be replaced, as can my phone, ipod, clothing, glucometer and meds. I might go for therapy vis-a-vis any trauma from going crunchsploosh, but I cant see them being responsible for goose attack. Id be happy with getting my stuff replaced, and my medical bills dealt with, and maybe a replacement set of tickets and perhaps in case i was headed on a vacation already paid for like a cruise, that replaced. Id have to work a nonpaid amount of time for that replacement cruise, but that is my issue, and nobody elses. Id have been a bit upset if it caused me to miss my parent/sibling/progeny’s deathbed scene, but that is about the only thing that would really upset me. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greed-on-display-plane-crash-related/483391/29 "2009-01-29T01:55:26Z")
Not to hijack, but this is pretty unbelievable: [Aussie crash survivor’s writes tribute to hero US Airways pilot](http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24970466-5012974,00.html) > [@](#): > > AUSSIE singer Emma Cowan went to New York for creative inspiration and found it in the form of a plane wreck in the icy Hudson River. > > Plane ditch survivor Ms Cowan has composed a song for the hero pilot behind the miraculous water landing that saved her life - and 154 others. > > Called Send Another Prayer, the tune is the Perth performer’s own heartfelt expression of gratitude to veteran airman Chesley B Sullenberger, who safely downed the massive Airbus in the water after a flock of geese struck its engines 12 days ago. > > “It’s a thank you to the pilot and a thank you to God for my life,” Ms Cowan told the Herald Sun. > > “It’s such a amazing thing they’ve done.” > > Ms Cowan, who performs under the surname Sophina, is in New York recording with Grammy-winning producers Marc Swersky and Tony Black at their New Jersey studio. > > \*\*She acknowledged that Mr Sullenberger not only saved her life, but worked miracles for her profile as a musician. > > “It’s expanded my career which is realy cool,” she said. \*\* (bolding mine) And… > [@](#): > > Mr Swersky was among the first to speak with her after the plane went down and he has spent the past week working on the track with her. > > “We’ve spent the last five days in the studio with her and she never ceases to amaze us,” Mr Swersky said. > > “She’s an unbelievable singer.” > > Mr Swersky devised some original lyrics and the melody, both of which Ms Cowan revised and changed to better convey her terrifying ordeal in the cabin of US Airways flight 1549. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greed-on-display-plane-crash-related/483391/30 "2009-01-29T01:57:20Z")
Does the City of New York own and operate the airport? If so, perhaps the passenger should sue the city for not getting rid of the geese. Actually, I have heard (from extremely unreliable sources) that the city has made efforts to reduce the geese population, and were hampered in their efforts by animal-rights groups. Perhaps he should sue PETA? I’m not really serious in either of the above paragraphs (although I suppose that anything detrimental to PETA must be considered a Good Thing). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greed-on-display-plane-crash-related/483391/31 "2009-01-29T02:28:39Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Yes, but the 5K offer was for luggage. I can and will be against folks trying to make money off of this accident, and this guy might be one of them, but if he’s talking about compensation for lost luggage then he has a case. Why? Do you believe an airline becomes an insurer of baggage while it is in their possession no matter what causes its loss? Have you read the contract? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greed-on-display-plane-crash-related/483391/32 "2009-01-29T02:29:11Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > if he’s talking about compensation for lost luggage then he has a case. Samsonite? ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greed-on-display-plane-crash-related/483391/33 "2009-01-29T02:42:41Z")
> [@XJETGIRLX](#): > > I know for sure that my laptop with all of my work on it, including proposals and documents for clients is worth a hell of a lot more than $5k. What if I had lost several weeks or months worth of work? What about the loss of items that are sentimental in value or irreplaceable? What about them? They are gone. See, there was an\* accident\*. The airline is not responsible for that because it was _accidental_. If you don’t have backup copies of any important files that were on a lost laptop then that’s YOUR stupidity–not US Airways. See-- they didn’t fuck-up–YOU did (in this hypothetical). All THEY did was save your life (oh… and give you $5000 for immediate replacement needs with the possibility of more $$ where and if appropriate). I think I need a piping hot cup of coffee from a McDonald’s drive-thru. I want to play LegalLotto too!!! Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greed-on-display-plane-crash-related/483391/34 "2009-01-29T03:02:36Z")
> [@Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](#): > > Excellent point. Isn’t insuring your stuff _your_ responsibility and not the airlines? i believe that by the rules established at the Warsaw Convention airlines are only responsible for up to $500 for lost/damaged baggage on domestic U.S. flights. > [@](#): > > NOTICE OF BAGGAGE LIABILITY LIMITATIONS > > ``` > Liability for loss, delay, or damage to baggage is limited as follows unless a higher value is declared in advance and additional charges are paid: (1) for most international travel (including domestic portions of international journeys) to approximately US $9.07 per pound (US $20.00 per kilo) for checked baggage and US $400 per passenger for unchecked baggage; (2) for travel wholly between US points, to US $500 per passenger on most carriers (a few have lower limits). Excess valuation may not be declared on certain types of valuable articles. Carriers assume no liability for fragile or perishable articles. Further information may be obtained from the carrier. > > ``` (from [here](http://www.aviation.go.th/airtrans/airlaw/LiabilityLimitation.html) at the bottom of the page). It’s printed on every ticket you buy (or comes up on your computer screen), and _you agree_ to that arrangement by purchasing the ticket. $5000 is WAY beyond the pale! Anytime you choose to get on a plane with let’s say $20,000 or so worth of American Privileged-People Toyz you need to know that you will only get $500 compensation if it is lost. It’s on you, bub. My suggestion? Don’t take that much valuable stuff on a plane trip unless you have extra insurance. Quit whining! This is just the kind of greedy, “me-first!” shit that Obama keeps trying to tell us needs to stop if we’re to have any hope for our country. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greed-on-display-plane-crash-related/483391/35 "2009-01-29T03:04:28Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Yes, but the 5K offer was for luggage. I can and will be against folks trying to make money off of this accident, and this guy might be one of them, but if he’s talking about compensation for lost luggage then he has a case. No he doesn’t. See above. ---
**Author:** ![atomicbadgerrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@atomicbadgerrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atomicbadgerrace)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greed-on-display-plane-crash-related/483391/36 "2009-01-29T03:08:41Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Why? Do you believe an airline becomes an insurer of baggage while it is in their possession no matter what causes its loss? Have you read the contract? **Thank you!** I don’t understand all the “well, if they were carrying more than $5000 worth of stuff, US Airways should pay out.” Um, no. The Contract of Carriage is pretty clear about baggage liability, even **when** the airline is negligent. I haven’t read US Airways’ specifically, but I’d put money on it being less than $5000. You want more? Buy luggage insurance. It’s available. US Airways has more than provided for these people. Yeah, it sucks. I get it. But you know what? It sucks for US Airways, too. Given that it **wasn’t their fault** , I’d be happy to walk away with my life, a refund or alternate transportation to my destination, and whatever the Contract of Carriage provided for lost/damaged/destroyed luggage. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greed-on-display-plane-crash-related/483391/37 "2009-01-29T04:10:13Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > Does the City of New York own and operate the airport? If so, perhaps the passenger should sue the city for not getting rid of the geese. No, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey does. There was actually an article in one of the Idiot Rags this morning[sup]1[/sup] blaming the PAPD for not enforcing “no feeding the birds” rules against cabbies who park in special lots at LGA. [sub]1. I just glance at the headlines, I swear.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greed-on-display-plane-crash-related/483391/38 "2009-01-29T20:32:35Z")
> [@HookerChemical](#): > > Yes, there should be negligence to win a suit, but there may be a case to be made. If there have been a large number of bird strikes and near misses using the route the jet was on, something should have been done to prevent a potentially dangerous situation. That could mean rerouting the path the jet takes, preventing birds from using the area, or other measures. Even if that was the case, the airline is not responsible for the departure routing of the aircraft. The initial departure route is given by ATC. The pilots can refuse a clearance but only if they have a good reason to do so, and they wouldn’t be privy to statistics on bird strikes in the area. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greed-on-display-plane-crash-related/483391/39 "2009-01-29T20:38:19Z")
[quote=“1920s Style “Death Ray”, post:38, topic:483391”] Even if that was the case, the airline is not responsible for the departure routing of the aircraft. The initial departure route is given by ATC. The pilots can refuse a clearance but only if they have a good reason to do so, and they wouldn’t be privy to statistics on bird strikes in the area. [/QUOTE] I think we should license all birds and allow them to fly only when given permission by ATC. This willy-nilly flying on a whim without filing a flight plan is unsafe for man or bird. And furthermore… ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greed-on-display-plane-crash-related/483391/40 "2009-01-29T20:47:05Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > If you store all of your critical data in only one place, on your laptop, and you never take the time to back it up, is that the airline’s fault? > > Maybe this incident will be a wakeup call for you? That’s what I was thinking. Sounds like someone’s workplace needs to review their business continuity plan if more than $5,000 in files would be lost if one single computer went tits up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greed-on-display-plane-crash-related/483391.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greed-on-display-plane-crash-related/483391.md?page=3)