# "Greedo shot first" - What is this argument all about? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 11, 2005, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115 "2005-09-11T17:35:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/21 "2005-09-12T03:15:53Z")
What gets me is the CGI’d head-turn that Luke now pulls in SW when Leia kisses him before the swing. What loser turns his head before being kissed by a Princess? ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/22 "2005-09-12T03:29:27Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > What gets me is the CGI’d head-turn that Luke now pulls in SW when Leia kisses him before the swing. What loser turns his head before being kissed by a Princess? One who can smell incest a trilogy away, clearly. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/23 "2005-09-12T04:09:43Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > “I’m smarter than that?” Where’d that come from? And “kidnapping?” She broke in first. “Sexual battery?” 1) How, exactly? and 2) Gross. > > I wasn’t expressing genuine outrage that Jabba was an innocent victim; I was pointing out that, especially in a movie about spaceships and Wookiees and lightsabers, it’s okay for somebody to kill a bad guy without having to have the bad guy actually shooting first. > > Besides, my way let me make fun of George Lucas, too, for being fat and gross. Which he is. Look at the dude’s neck, for god’s sake. Uh, remember that scene with the tongue, and how Threepio says, “Oh, I can’t bear to watch?” (Right after they de-carbonite Han?) _shudder_ Plus, he was like, totally going to like, kill her friends, and that like, totally sucks. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/24 "2005-09-12T04:33:39Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Uh, remember that scene with the tongue Come on, I can’t be the _only_ person who was really turned on by that. Right? Right? ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/25 "2005-09-12T05:08:17Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > And Princess Leia is the most bad-ass rogue in the galaxy, because she strangled Jabba the Hutt to death for doing nothing more than being fat and gross and putting her in a skimpy outfit. . Actually, Jabba the hutt was one of the most well known crime bosses in the galaxy. So maybe he didn’t do anything to her specifically, but he had that strangling coming. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/26 "2005-09-12T05:29:19Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > In the original movie Greedo has Han at gunpoint. Han unholsters his blaster under the table and shoots Greedo, who dies. > > In the later versions, Greedo shoots first, manages to miss an fully grown adult human sitting at the opposite side of a small table after aiming at said human for a protracted period of time, and is then shot. > > Us Star Wars fans find the latter version silly and the change pointless. While I agree 100% with your assessment, I’d like to point out that in the book _Tales of the Jabba’s Palace_ (I think it was that one…either that or _Tales from the Mos Eisley Cantina_, it’s noted that Greedo was, essentially, a teenager trying to act all big and bad. This was his first attempt to collect a bounty. Given that Lucas has said repeatedly that the books are canon unless the trilogy contradicts the point, this could be the effect that he was going for. However, it still sucks, and should never have been altered. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/27 "2005-09-12T06:04:59Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > While I agree 100% with your assessment, I’d like to point out that in the book _Tales of the Jabba’s Palace_ (I think it was that one…either that or _Tales from the Mos Eisley Cantina_, it’s noted that Greedo was, essentially, a teenager trying to act all big and bad. This was his first attempt to collect a bounty. On the other hand, that was a really stupid fuckin’ story, one of the worst in a drastically sub-par collection. As such, I think it should be declared “too dumb for cannon” and summarily ignored. Just like _Attack of the Clones._ ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@The\_Hook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hook)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/28 "2005-09-12T06:15:14Z")
“There is no Greedo.” Well, there is not _shot_. Greedo isn’t supposed to shoot at all. But it’s not even that. Had Harrison Ford dodge the blaster shot on film and then blast Greedo, it would have set in fine with anyone watching the film. Not only would Han be a badass, he would be a _fast_ badass! What irks me is that the scene looks really fake. It would be just as bad if Han’s dialogue were dubbed with a South African accent for that one brief scene. All in all, a true WTF moment. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/29 "2005-09-12T06:36:29Z")
Has Lucas ever _spoken_ on this matter??? One can surmise that it’s a “Han must be moral” kinda thing, but I’d like to hear his own explanation for why he thinks the “fixing” actually works as a fix. Every quote I’ve ever read from him about the changes to the original trilogy only makes mention of the technological restrictions he originally faced that he could now transcend. The Greedo thing obviously doesn’t fit into this category. When I got the DVDs, the first thing I did was turn on the commentary track, then skip ahead to this scene thinking there was no way they could ignore it. They ignored it. The commentary focuses solely on the Huttese language. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@The\_Hook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hook)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/30 "2005-09-12T06:47:00Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > One can surmise that it’s a “Han must be moral” kinda thing, but I’d like to hear his own explanation for why he thinks the “fixing” actually works as a fix. Every quote I’ve ever read from him about the changes to the original trilogy only makes mention of the technological restrictions he originally faced that he could now transcend. The Greedo thing obviously doesn’t fit into this category. The only thing I can think of that links to this is the fact that they had to reshoot the scene without Harrison Ford and a different actor playing Greedo. It wouldn’t make sense, though, because Han would still be trying to dodge it on the original footage. My guess is that the scene probably made one of Lucas’ daughters cry. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_B.Phart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Capt\_B.Phart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_B.Phart)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/31 "2005-09-12T14:00:35Z")
> [@Case Sensitive](#): > > Jesus, George, what the fuck _happened_ to you? How did you get from **Star Wars** to **Phantom Menace**? He got what he wished for. (Control over actors, technology with no limits, bottomless money pit, endless schedules and a chorus of “That’s just Genius, George” greeting every decision) Mel Brooks (who also neglected to buy a return ticket when he boarded the bus to Sucksville) called it “The Green Awning syndrome” - when you’re hot Hollywood will give you money to make your pet project film about flies crawling on a green awning How much better would Kubrick’s later stuff have been if he’d had a soulless bean-counter leaning over his shoulder bitching about every re-take, every day over schedule? ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/32 "2005-09-12T14:58:01Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > Has Lucas ever _spoken_ on this matter??? One can surmise that it’s a “Han must be moral” kinda thing, but I’d like to hear his own explanation for why he thinks the “fixing” actually works as a fix. From an Entertainment Weekly interview, snarkily reproduced [here](http://www.bobanddavid.com/doug.asp?artID=137): > [@George Lucas](#): > > The thing that really caused the trouble on STAR WARS is the whole question of whether Han Solo or Greedo shoots first. He didn’t shoot first. In my mind [Greedo] shot first or at the same time. We like to think of [Han Solo] as a murderer because that’s hip … I mean, I don’t see how you can redeem somebody who kills people in cold blood. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/33 "2005-09-12T16:21:04Z")
The real tragedy is that Greedo was easily the most competent bounty hunter in the **Star Wars** universe, insofar as he came the closest to actually managing to collect a bounty on his own merits. (I refer only to the first five movies here: maybe there were multiple incidents of supremely effective bounty hunting in **Revenge of the Sith** , but I wouldn’t know. I tend to doubt it though.) No letting the Empire do all the heavy lifting; no subcontracting his bounties to lesser minions; no elaborate Wile E. Coyote-like death traps involving flying remote drones and killer millipedes. He managed to discreetly track his quarry and catch him off guard, even while wearing a fluorescent hunting vest. His one fatal mistake was taking time out to gloat, but that could happen to anyone, really. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/34 "2005-09-12T17:32:06Z")
Original GL quote: > [@](#): > > The thing that really caused the trouble on STAR WARS is the whole question of whether Han Solo or Greedo shoots first. He didn’t shoot first. In my mind [Greedo] shot first or at the same time. We like to think of [Han Solo] as a murderer because that’s hip … I mean, I don’t see how you can redeem somebody who kills people in cold blood. He can’t? Really? Then why even bother making 3 prequels that do exactly that–attempt to re-create a cold-blooded murderer as a misunderstood/disillusioned/flawed/“tragic” hero? At least Han does a lot more substantial to redeem himself than Vader ever does. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/35 "2005-09-12T17:41:57Z")
> [@George Lucas](#): > > The thing that really caused the trouble on STAR WARS is the whole question of whether Han Solo or Greedo shoots first. He didn’t shoot first. In my mind [Greedo] shot first or at the same time. We like to think of [Han Solo] as a murderer because that’s hip … I mean, I don’t see how you can redeem somebody who kills people in cold blood. In that case, the early scene where Darth Vader casually strangles an Alliance officer should’ve been modified so Vader was only giving him a great big noogie. “Where’s the plans? Where’s the plans? Say ‘uncle’!” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/36 "2005-09-12T17:45:43Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > Original GL quote: He can’t? Really? Then why even bother making 3 prequels that do exactly that–attempt to re-create a cold-blooded murderer as a misunderstood/disillusioned/flawed/“tragic” hero? At least Han does a lot more substantial to redeem himself than Vader ever does. Well, killing an armed bounty hunter who’s pointing a pistol at you while gloating about killing you is pretty foul. Nobody can come back from that. Slaughtering a roomful of defenceless children? Pfft. That’s, like, a misdemeanor at worst. A little community service, and Vader’s totally rehabilitated. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/37 "2005-09-12T18:19:23Z")
In the remixed revised extended extra special edition Greedo is not a bounty hunter but a credit counselor and he helps Han get out of debt by consolidating his loans into one low monthly payment. ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/38 "2005-09-12T18:23:13Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > In the latest, latest rerelease, Greedo fires first and Han quickly reaches for his blaster, only to find that it has become a walkie-talkie. So he bludgeons Greedo to death with it. I hear that in the next, next re-release of Star Wars, Han and Greedo recognize each other as old high-school classmates. They spend their time in the cantina chatting and laughing about the good old days, then they exchange phone numbers (and a few punches on the arm) before going their separate ways. In the next re-release planned after that, Han Solo is going to drop by the hospital to visit Greedo, who’s dying of cancer, and will ask Han to adopt his two small children. Then there’s a tender goodbye scene that won’t leave a dry eye in the house, unless you’re just made of wood or something. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/39 "2005-09-12T18:34:53Z")
Side note: if you Google some variant of “Greedo ‘shoots first’”, the results, well … you’d swear the internet was invented solely as a medium for this debate. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/40 "2005-09-12T18:43:18Z")
> [@Bytegeist](#): > > I hear that in the next, next re-release of Star Wars, Han and Greedo recognize each other as old high-school classmates. They spend their time in the cantina chatting and laughing about the good old days, then they exchange phone numbers (and a few punches on the arm) before going their separate ways. Actually, if you’ve seen the deleted scenes on the Ep1 DVD, you’ll see that a rodian named Greedo picks a fight with little Ani, only to be summarily warned by Qui-Gon. So that would’ve put Greedo as the same age as Vader… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115.md?page=3)