# "Greedo shot first" - What is this argument all about? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 11, 2005, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115 "2005-09-11T17:35:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/41 "2005-09-12T18:50:20Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Well, killing an armed bounty hunter who’s pointing a pistol at you while gloating about killing you is pretty foul. Nobody can come back from that. Slaughtering a roomful of defenceless children? Pfft. That’s, like, a misdemeanor at worst. A little community service, and Vader’s totally rehabilitated. Actually, if all the younglings were like that twerpy, scruffy little British bootblack (" 'ello Master Anakin!"), I couldn’t agree with you more. ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/42 "2005-09-12T19:01:24Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Of course, I think they need to restore the original, but at least we don’t get to see Greedo miss that stupid ass shot. Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. This is the first I’ve _ever_ heard about Greedo aiming for Han’s butt. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/43 "2005-09-12T19:09:05Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > Come on, I can’t be the _only_ person who was really turned on by that. Right? > > Right? Dude, I thought you were gay. But then, Hutts are hermaphrodites. (read the trilogy where Jabba’s uncle becomes his aunt!) ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/44 "2005-09-12T19:14:27Z")
> [@Bytegeist](#): > > I hear that in the next, next re-release of Star Wars, Han and Greedo recognize each other as old high-school classmates. > [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > Actually, if you’ve seen the deleted scenes on the Ep1 DVD, you’ll see that a rodian named Greedo picks a fight with little Ani, only to be summarily warned by Qui-Gon. So that would’ve put Greedo as the same age as Vader… Okay, so Greedo was held back maybe — had to take senior year twenty or thirty times. You know, _No Child Left Behind_ and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/45 "2005-09-12T19:36:23Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > Has Lucas ever _spoken_ on this matter??? > > One can surmise that it’s a “Han must be moral” kinda thing, but I’d like to hear his own explanation for why he thinks the “fixing” actually works as a fix. Every quote I’ve ever read from him about the changes to the original trilogy only makes mention of the technological restrictions he originally faced that he could now transcend. The Greedo thing obviously doesn’t fit into this category. > > When I got the DVDs, the first thing I did was turn on the commentary track, then skip ahead to this scene thinking there was no way they could ignore it. > > They ignored it. The commentary focuses solely on the Huttese language. I have seen a website that backs up the “morality” theory. In addition to the Han/Greedo edit, in the new version of the movie, Lucas edited out all of the scenes that _showed_ the good guys shooting the Imperial officers when they were on the death star. I don’t have it bookmarked, but it showed frame by frame screen caps from the original and the edit, and all of the frames where the shots hit the Imperials are now gone. I guess the laser fire just scared them so badly that they fainted, right George? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/46 "2005-09-12T19:43:29Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > I have seen a website that backs up the “morality” theory. In addition to the Han/Greedo edit, in the new version of the movie, Lucas edited out all of the scenes that _showed_ the good guys shooting the Imperial officers when they were on the death star. I don’t have it bookmarked, but it showed frame by frame screen caps from the original and the edit, and all of the frames where the shots hit the Imperials are now gone. I guess the laser fire just scared them so badly that they fainted, right George? :dubious: I’d never heard that. Wow. Just when I thought I couldn’t despise George Lucas any more. Can you maybe find a link to that site for me? ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/47 "2005-09-12T19:44:00Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > I have seen a website that backs up the “morality” theory. In addition to the Han/Greedo edit, in the new version of the movie, Lucas edited out all of the scenes that _showed_ the good guys shooting the Imperial officers when they were on the death star. I don’t have it bookmarked, but it showed frame by frame screen caps from the original and the edit, and all of the frames where the shots hit the Imperials are now gone. I guess the laser fire just scared them so badly that they fainted, right George? :dubious: Not exactly accurate. All the shots hitting the Imperial officers are still there, but the pyro work (chests quickly bursting with flames where a laser blast hits) have been diminshed so they’re just…shot and fall over. Less graphic, this is more of a “Won’t someone think of the children!” edit than a “I’m rewriting history 'cuz I want to” edit. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/48 "2005-09-12T21:47:00Z")
> [@Capt B. Phart](#): > > He got what he wished for. > (Control over actors, technology with no limits, bottomless money pit, endless schedules and a chorus of “That’s just Genius, George” greeting every decision) That’s the shame of it: the original cantina scene is a model of tight, intelligent film-making, as well as being frickin’ cool. It’s so easy to forget now that the guy used to have _chops_, and now he’s like the Vegas Elvis of film-making - this bloated _thing_ that just churns out product for money. Memo to Peter Jackson: you let **Kong** go to your head and I _will_ hunt you down. ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/49 "2005-09-12T22:07:14Z")
> [@Nonsuch](#): > > I’d never heard that. Wow. Just when I thought I couldn’t despise George Lucas any more. > > Can you maybe find a link to that site for me? [This it?](http://www.dvdfile.com/software/cut_list/index_2.html#Star%20Wars%20Special%20Edition) ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2005, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/50 "2005-09-12T23:59:23Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > Not exactly accurate. All the shots hitting the Imperial officers are still there, but the pyro work (chests quickly bursting with flames where a laser blast hits) have been diminshed so they’re just…shot and fall over. Less graphic, this is more of a “Won’t someone think of the children!” edit than a “I’m rewriting history 'cuz I want to” edit. Of course, the BEST thing to do would have been to have the blaster bolts go THROUGH the Imperial officers, who then burst into flames while screaming and spraying blood everywhere. All while the heros play Grand Theft Auto: Vice City. 😉 Speaking of suprisingly graphic sci-fi, anybody remember Star Trek II? ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/51 "2005-09-13T00:02:54Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > Of course, the BEST thing to do would have been to have the blaster bolts go THROUGH the Imperial officers, who then burst into flames while screaming and spraying blood everywhere. All while the heros play Grand Theft Auto: Vice City. 😉 Don’t you mean GTA: Cloud City? ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/52 "2005-09-13T00:19:02Z")
What are you talking about? There is no Episode II! Supposedly Episodes I-III were planned but Lucas never got around to making them. _Living in a cave._ _On Mars._ _With my fingers in my ears._ ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/53 "2005-09-13T00:49:34Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > Not exactly accurate. All the shots hitting the Imperial officers are still there, but the pyro work (chests quickly bursting with flames where a laser blast hits) have been diminshed so they’re just…shot and fall over. Less graphic, this is more of a “Won’t someone think of the children!” edit than a “I’m rewriting history 'cuz I want to” edit. That’s exactly what I was saying. You don’t see the shots hit anymore. And some of the frames have been cut. See the link that tanstaafl posted, I’m pretty sure that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/54 "2005-09-13T01:15:33Z")
Well, that may be exactly what you meant, but it’s not exactly what you said: > [@](#): > > Lucas edited out all of the scenes that showed the good guys shooting the Imperial officers when they were on the death star. To “edit out all of the scenes” would mean to completely remove altogether. Maybe a few frames (fractions of seconds) are gone, but the primary manipulation was changing the content of the shot, not excising the shot completely. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@The\_Hook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hook)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/55 "2005-09-13T01:49:17Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > That’s exactly what I was saying. You don’t see the shots hit anymore. And some of the frames have been cut. See the link that tanstaafl posted, I’m pretty sure that’s it. No, that site sucks. Try this one: [http://www.dvdanswers.com/index.php?r=0&s=8&n=1&k=Star+Wars&c=28](http://www.dvdanswers.com/index.php?r=0&s=8&n=1&k=Star+Wars&c=28) It’s a much more comprehensive list of the changes made. As for the shots, I’m not as outraged as other people are (considering some were left intact, it was a partial mellowing). So they don’t light up like a Christmas tree. Big deal. It’s not like they originally burned their clothes and were incinerated to death. It was a cheap, sci-fi glow. On my quest to find the above website, though, I stumbled upon this: [Han and Greedo Comic Strip](http://willow.club.fr/Greedo_Comic/Greedo_Comic_Intro.htm) If you share the previous link with 10 of your friends, Greedo might have a chance to survive after all! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/56 "2005-09-13T04:03:22Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > Well, that may be exactly what you meant, but it’s not exactly what you said:To “edit out all of the scenes” would mean to completely remove altogether. Maybe a few frames (fractions of seconds) are gone, but the primary manipulation was changing the content of the shot, not excising the shot completely. Way to selectively quote. I said: > [@](#): > > all of the frames where the shots hit the Imperials are now gone It’s pretty clear that what I meant was that the hits were edited out. You said it better, but we’re talking about the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/57 "2005-09-13T16:54:59Z")
Except, as The Hook’s link shows, they weren’t “edited out”, they were digitally altered. The frames are still there, but the content of those shots have been manipulated to look differently (less graphic). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Bird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Little\_Bird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Bird)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115/58 "2005-09-13T17:45:50Z")
> [@tanstaafl](#): > > [This it?](http://www.dvdfile.com/software/cut_list/index_2.html#Star%20Wars%20Special%20Edition) Oh for the love of Pete! The second one looked more like the officer was ducking for cover than getting shot! Is the next re-cut gonna have them ticking them into submission? \ ***BIRD SMASH!!!** \* :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greedo-shot-first-what-is-this-argument-all-about/321115.md?page=2)