You mean those nasty Germans are forcing countries to lend money? Could you remind us of the mechanism?
Same way that they force the Greeks to borrow.
Regards,
Shodan
What is it with you and the Germans. Foolsguinea said something about Latvians not sending money to Greece. I noted that it is a fact that they did (250 euro for every man, woman, child and pensioner - not a small sum in fact). And the latest is that Germany and France together has given Greece a 24 hour ultimatum – but that the Dutch are one-upping it saying Greece should accept the reforms now or it’s game over. Finland too demands extensive reforms in Greece, and the East European nations are saying stop (Eurozone’s poorer nations take hard line on Greece) But let’s pretend it’s all Germany lets. And at least the Greeks have Cuba and Castro on their side. And that’s got to count for something.
Well, you are conflating a lot of stuff here that I didn’t and haven’t said. What it means to ME to place part of the blame on the ‘Greek people’ is pretty simple…the people who voted in and supported the policies of their governments and politicians in the past that got them into this mess. They aren’t blameless. Sure, those folks include rich guys who don’t pay their taxes as it includes everyone else who is supposed to pay their taxes and don’t.
As to your IRS question, it’s kind of a cart and horse situation. We have a strong IRS because we have a strong rule of law. I think even when the IRS was less strong Americans generally paid their taxes (what little were on the books in the early days) unless you want to go back to when the Brits were in charge, of course. 
From what I’ve read the Greeks have pretty much never (in modern times) collected anything close to all the taxes that are or were on the books.
I wasn’t treating any of this as a morality play. That’s YOUR strawman of my position. I never said anything about the Greeks being ‘lazy’…again, your strawman, not my position.
He’s basically got his talking points narrative from some source and by the gods it’s all the Germans fault! Don’t try and confuse him with facts when he knows what he nose!
“Greece debt crisis: France ‘will do everything’ to keep Greece in eurozone
7 July 2015”
You do realize that that’s one of those fake news satire sites, right?
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/about
That is pretty funny though.
I’m sorry if I conflated your position (and in any event “lazy” was just an example trait for a clarifying example).
But you were the one who wrote “Greek PEOPLE” using the CapsLock emphasis. If you’d used a term like “Greek politics” or “Greek traditions” I’d not have taken offense.
The Greek political parties were already on the list, as I noted, and I’m totally good with both present and, especially past political parties in Greece taking their share of the blame. But the folks who actually live in Greece and voted for those folks and who benefited and actually demanded of those politicians all of the jobs and benefits also need to share in the blame if we are looking to point fingers (which is what that article was about).
Personally, I’m less inclined to place blame as to try and find solutions to the mess at this point. I think part of the issue that some of the Europeans have is they are trying to fix blame and even apply punishment instead of find solutions that will work. The Greeks fucked up by taking on enormous debt that they couldn’t possibly pay back…they aren’t the only countries to do so. The bankers and folks who loaned them money fucked up as well, as did the European agencies who initially dealt with and have continued to deal with the mess. At this point I think everyone needs to move on and see if there are any solutions not more finger pointing.
Exactly.
I just asked for the financial mechanism, is all.
In other words, not at all.
Regards,
Shodan
Here’s a pretty good BBC article on the various stances of the other European nations and their governments on this whole thing:
Long story short, looks like many of the Northern European nations are more inclined towards Germany’s take on it, while most of the Southern European nations seem more willing to compromise. I think it breaks down to whether countries think Greece leaving the EZ would adversely affect them and what their perceived exposure is, though France is the odd nation out in this respect since they seem to be for making a compromise even though their exposure isn’t as much (though they were the second highest nation holding Greek debt).
… and the new Greek Finance Minister arrives at the meeting today without the promised proposal. Delayed till Wednesday. More games.
Yeah, just saw that here. Ugh.
I really don’t know what the hell the Greek government is playing at. This latest shenanigan is amateur hour.
The Spanish seem to be much more confident about their future, not wishing to be compared with the Greeks.
Other EU countries with large amounts of public debt are trying to grow their way out of it and cut public expenditure. It hurts to do this and takes political determination.
The Greek politicians just seem to tell their electorate what they want to hear: it is someone elses fault and they should not have to suffer any austerity. Blame Germany, the IMF, anyone but themselves.
It all seems so very immature.
They have to pull a rabbit out of the hat pretty soon and offer a deal that everyone can live with.
Why not reduce entire populations to one emotion. Does it make the complexity easier to form opinions on?
Did you miss the admission last week from the IMF that the economy needs a 20-year grace period and simply cannot do what the German gov wants?
I hope this Greek crisis will finally give national debt a stigma.