Greek default seems to be inevitable...what's the fallout?

The good PM made an ass of himself demanding “Dignity”, (and the people backed him by 60%), the Finance Minister’s assured them that a NO vote would “force” the hated Troika to capitulate.

You think maybe even the French hardened their view a bit?

After that performance, I’d suggest that anyone who thinks the current government can be trusted is a fool.

Let them go their own way, with all the dignity they want - when they actually implement the policies being “promised”, they can come back and talk.

LOL. ‘trust’ vs. ‘dignity’ this morning - and I see the Telegraph has gone all Flash Gordon for the third time this week:

Flash, I love you! But we only have fourteen hours to save the Earth!

Looks like Finland, Slovakia, the Netherlands, Slovenia, Lithuania, Estonia and Germany are going to tell Greece: Oxi!

Better late than never.

The original (2010) bailout was financed by private banks. When the payments stopped coming (if the Greeks ever did make a payment), their governments bought the loans - at half their face value.

How many people have to lose how much before they see a pattern?

“People”? It’s not a 19th century trans-continental railway.

Banks or institutions loan or buy debt for profit and/or strategic reasons.

The constant, relentless desire to turn this into a bogus, homesy, two personality matter is kind of pathetic: ‘gee, you let the bank down, Homer’

You can follow a very useful Twitter list about the Greek crisis:

https://twitter.com/GreekAnalyst/lists/greek-crisis

created by The Greek Analyst

Well, no one corrected me, so I needed to fight my own ignorance. In case anyone else is still unsure:

I found out that emergency funds go through the ESM (European Stability Mechanism), which has a different voting procedure:

So if Donnerwetter is correct, the vote will be blocked. Talks will continue later today, so it’s not over yet.

It is really impossible to predict anything at this point. All bets are off. There might be no decision today after all.

The largest private institutions buying debt are pension funds. In other words: people.

Hey Govmints is people, too!

Well, looks like no deal for today. Greece slips closer to the edge, but they are still talking.

There is a brutal massacre going on in Brussels right now. Absolutely stunning and unprecedented.

My in-laws went to Crete last week for three nights. They were smart enough to bring about 1000 euros with them in cash.

Hm. From the latest reporting, it seems that Tsipras’ clowning around in the last few weeks have so hugely damaged the relations between Greece and EU and so incredibly undermined any trust that some (seems like half of) EU members have towards Greece that nothing less than a complete Greek capitulation and ceding of financial sovereignty will produce any deal now.

Tsipras, I think, will be cited for the next few hundred years as a textbook of example of how NOT to negotiate.

And how will history remember Merkel?

Depends if EU falls apart or not. If it does, not kindly. If it doesn’t, and actually becomes stronger without Greece - as a genius.

Regardless of how Greece eventually, decades later, comes out of this, Tsipras’ shenanigans will definitely go down in history as some of the most inept negotiating tactics ever.

As for short term, Merkel seems to be getting stronger politically in the last few days. Tsipras, on the other hand, if he manages to survive as PM for the next month, I will be amazed.

Is there any precedent for Tsipras’ level of screw-up?

He had an deal much kinder to Greece on the table and walks away, demanding his populace vote it down, based on the theory that rejecting that (by then withdrawn) deal would “force” the lenders to throw money at them.

He is now faced with demands for hard collateral for a new loan, the requirement to enact laws backing up what he is promising.
So much for Europe.
Maybe he can hit up the IMF (with which he has already missed a payment) - IMF says "“Go get Europe’s permission”

Well, China is using its wealth to buy access, maybe they will be good for a buck or two.
Well, it seems that China has already bought a Greek port, spent a boatload of money re-building it.
Then Tsipras re-nationalizes it.

How about Russia? Well, he got a lovely 8x10 of himself shaking Putin’s hand, but not a peep - not even a note of sympathy.

Which leaves the money th Greeks who didn’t get theirs out of Greek banks have sitting there not doing anything.
Cyprus raided its citizen’s piggy banks, so…

If there weren’t so many people getting crushed, this would be funny - the ultimate in “Dumb Criminals”-type slapstick.

Come Monday, Tsipras needs to be out of a job and the most recent Greek leader with some credibility needs to be named acting PM.

“An EU official describes it as ‘extensive mental waterboarding’”

Merkel needs to be seen to be revving German tanks on the Greek Finance Ministry lawn. What I love about Germans is they really embrace hard ball. You absolutely know what you’re going to get.

Fuck the Germans.

That attitude is pretty much what destroyed Greece’s credibility. We got the money - fuck 'em.

233 Billion (with a B) later and the original lenders losing 50% on loans to Greece, and they still have a corrupt civil service and wholesale tax evasion.

When the lenders demand a VAT, it means they don’t think you could get any money from your people unless you hold their purchases hostage and demand the tax as condition of purchase.

Do you think that maybe this time (the 3rd bailout in 5 years) the message has gotten through?

It hasn’t - they still won’t pay taxes or demand a cleanup of the Civil Service.

Tsipras is supposed to be an extreme Leftist. Don’t Leftists generally think the rich should pay taxes?
How did Greece get to the point that, when broke, demand foreign entities give them money? Isn’t the usual to raise taxes internally?

The No vote was absolutely breathtaking. An entire nation demanding a handout instead of looking at domestic problems. We demand free money and nobody can tell us how to spend it!

In how many countries could such an attitude develop? You want “Dignity”? Show a bit of “Pride” and stop begging.