# Green Arrow question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 30, 2002, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-arrow-question/134539 "2002-10-30T14:34:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-arrow-question/134539/1 "2002-10-30T14:34:30Z")
Ok, I _know_ the real-world explaination for my question is “Because Mike Grell thought it would be more ‘realistic’ and it was during the grim’n’gritty '80s.” I understand that. What I want to know is _from the internal, inside the story_ perspective, was there ever a reason given that Green Arrow gave up his trick arrows and went for just plain ol’ pointy ones? I mean, he’s used his trick arrows to take out Despero, Starro the Conquerer and “The Doom of the Star Diamond”. All he can do with regular pointy arrows is maim people. And really…why’s the Justice League _letting_ him maim people. Putting an arrow through someone’s calf or bicep or between their shoulder and arm joint or through their kneecap would permanatly cripple them. For all that Batman’s supposed to be brutal, he doesn’t actually _hurt_ people. (Don’t forget that in a comic-book universe, knocking people out NEVER leads to “real” damage.) Any “in story” reasons given? Fenris ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-arrow-question/134539/2 "2002-10-30T14:47:39Z")
The first time GA killed someone predated Mike Grell; it was in a Denny O’Neill/Neal Adams Batman/GA crossover. Don’t recall the title (though I probably have it), but Batman required heart surgery and GA was helping to get some equipment he needed. GA sent an arrow through the heart of a drug dealer. No explanation was given, but then, you didn’t need one to kill a drug dealer. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-arrow-question/134539/3 "2002-10-30T16:56:07Z")
From what I recall, when the new series started up about 12 years ago, GA had gotten too far from his roots and felt that he was bastardizing his skills and talent, and wanted to see if he could still cut it as a crime fighter without all the trick arrows and gadgets. So, he took to the streets of Seattle in a Robin Hood outfit with a longbow and broadheads. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-arrow-question/134539/4 "2002-10-30T17:25:57Z")
By the by, Batman has on occasion lodged a batarang in somebody’s leg or arm. Not a fatal wound but certainly “maiming.” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-arrow-question/134539/5 "2002-10-30T20:33:24Z")
It was getting kinda silly, after all. “Okay, Speedy, we can escape our underwater jail cell with the acetelyne-torch arrow and them swim to the surface with our aqua-lung tip arrow and then destroy the octopus robot with our firecracker arrows.” Seriously, these arrows were used in one of Green Arrow’s stories. Have you ever seen the entries for Green Arrow, Batman (in the _Who’s Who in the DC Universe_ series) and Hawkeye (in the Marvel Universe handbooks)? They give a detailed list of the contents of GA’s and Hawkeye’s quivers of trick arrows, as well as Bats’ utility belt, but include the warning that these represent only samples and that the hero constantly revises and restocks his supply. This is clearly so the Deus Ex Machina device can be pulled out when the story requires it, as well as discourages obsessive fanboys from pointing out that Batman drew his tear gas pellets with his left hand in issue #345, but with his right in issue #376. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-arrow-question/134539/6 "2002-10-30T21:43:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bryan Ekers \* > \*\*It was getting kinda silly, after all. “Okay, Speedy, we can escape our underwater jail cell with the acetelyne-torch arrow and them swim to the surface with our aqua-lung tip arrow and then destroy the octopus robot with our firecracker arrows.” > > Seriously, these arrows were used in one of Green Arrow’s stories. > > Have you ever seen the entries for Green Arrow, Batman (in the _Who’s Who in the DC Universe_ series) and Hawkeye (in the Marvel Universe handbooks)? They give a detailed list of the contents of GA’s and Hawkeye’s quivers of trick arrows, as well as Bats’ utility belt, but include the warning that these represent only samples and that the hero constantly revises and restocks his supply. This is clearly so the Deus Ex Machina device can be pulled out when the story requires it, as well as discourages obsessive fanboys from pointing out that Batman drew his tear gas pellets with his left hand in issue #345, but with his right in issue #376. \*\* That was issue 377 sir! Page 14, bottom panel. Here, let me get that one out of the vault. Hang on, I have to get the tongs.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-arrow-question/134539/7 "2002-10-30T22:30:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by photopat \* > \*\*That was issue 377 sir! Page 14, bottom panel. Here, let me get that one out of the vault. Hang on, I have to get the tongs.😃 \*\* What, no mylar? …pfft, amateur… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-arrow-question/134539/8 "2002-10-31T00:49:29Z")
I think my favorite was the nuclear warhead arrow that GA used on a reanimated Starro the Conqueror during one of the JSA-JLA crossovers. I want to say it was issue #63, but I long sold that book and I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-arrow-question/134539/9 "2002-10-31T07:06:08Z")
I think he went back to just regular arrows in _The Longbow Hunters_ by Grell. It was a 3 issue prestige format story that took GA and Black Canary to Seattle. And it includes the second time that GA killed someone, but this time it was on purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-arrow-question/134539/10 "2002-10-31T08:15:54Z")
If repeated blunt head trauma and loss of consciousness doesn’t eventually lead to brain damage, then I have no problem with a clothyard arrow through the kneecap not leading to a life on crutches or in a wheelchair. It’s the comics; whatever doesn’t kill you will be healed by the next issue. If it _does_ kill you, then you have to wait at least six issues. ---
**Author:** ![Labdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Labdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labdad)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-arrow-question/134539/11 "2002-10-31T13:46:12Z")
I know this is veering away from the OP, but can someone tell me how GA lost his arm? In **The Dark Night Returns** , he’s pulling the bowstring with his teeth. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Elvis_Rojo)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-arrow-question/134539/12 "2002-10-31T13:48:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > \*\* For all that Batman’s supposed to be brutal, he doesn’t actually _hurt_ people. \*\* Um…that’s bullshit! There’s one storyline involving Ras Au Guold (I don’t read Batman comics often, so forgive the bastardisation of his name); the key points of the story are Batman and Ras daughter get pregnant, and the big villain is some military guy that likes to pop peoples ribcages out with his bear hands. Anyway, in the opening, Bats is fighting some terrorists, and he throws a batarang at a canister right by a guy, busting it open, and causing the stuff inside to spray the guy and **melt his face!!!** Like most, depending on who’s writing him, Batman will either make sure he doesn’t hurt someone perminantly, or make sure they never walk again. Just because current writters have him on a “live and let live, just with a few broken ribs” attitude, doesn’t mean he’s always had it. ---
**Author:** ![Legomancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/779978/32.png) [@Legomancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Legomancer)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-arrow-question/134539/13 "2002-10-31T14:34:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Labdad \* > \*\*I know this is veering away from the OP, but can someone tell me how GA lost his arm? In **The Dark Night Returns** , he’s pulling the bowstring with his teeth. \*\* The implication is that Superman removed his arm (perhaps with heat vision) to stop him from being a vigilante. ---
**Author:** ![lawoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@lawoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawoot)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-arrow-question/134539/14 "2002-10-31T14:34:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Labdad \* > \*\*I know this is veering away from the OP, but can someone tell me how GA lost his arm? In **The Dark Night Returns** , he’s pulling the bowstring with his teeth. \*\* Re-read **Dark Knight**. It is implied that, since Oliver wouldn’t quit ‘adventuring’, the government sent Superman to deal with im - and that Supes ‘removed’ his arm. Never stated just HOW he did this. Was it me, or did the missing arm switch from the original **Dark Knight** to **DK2**? ---
**Author:** ![Labdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Labdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labdad)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-arrow-question/134539/15 "2002-10-31T15:15:27Z")
> [@](#): > > It is implied that, since Oliver wouldn’t quit ‘adventuring’, the government sent Superman to deal with im - and that Supes ‘removed’ his arm. Never stated just HOW he did this. Yeah - I inferred that from **DKR**. I thought maybe there was a really cool storyline out there that I could find. Thanks for clearing it up for me. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2002, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-arrow-question/134539/16 "2002-10-31T20:54:27Z")
> [@](#): > > The big villain is some military guy that likes to pop peoples ribcages out with his **bear** hands. Typo, or unusual new super-villain? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Elvis_Rojo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2002, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-arrow-question/134539/17 "2002-11-01T13:26:39Z")
It’s an old storyline, from the mid to late 80’s I think (could be early 90’s), and no, he wasn’t a super-villain, just some crazed whack job that liked to crush people with his bare hands. He crushes some guys skull earlier on in the story as well. But yeah, did anyone else catch the part where I said Batman **Melted a guys FACE!!!** ---
**Author:** ![WSLer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@WSLer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WSLer)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2002, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-arrow-question/134539/18 "2002-11-02T00:36:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by El Elvis Rojo \* > \*\*It’s an old storyline, from the mid to late 80’s I think (could be early 90’s), and no, he wasn’t a super-villain, just some crazed whack job that liked to crush people with his bare hands. He crushes some guys skull earlier on in the story as well. > > But yeah, did anyone else catch the part where I said Batman **Melted a guys FACE!!!** \*\* It’s actually from a graphic novel called **Son Of The Demon**. In it, Batman impregnated Rahs Al Gul’s daughter, but she told Batman that she lost the baby, but the kid turned up at an orphanage at the end of the story. Now it’s considered to be an **Elseworld’s** story. ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2002, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-arrow-question/134539/19 "2002-11-02T01:57:31Z")
I dunno that it’s officially considered an Elseworlds story - I think DC just decided to ignore it. OTOH, it was pre-Zero Hour, so DC is quite free to have removed it officially. [This](http://www.rambles.net/batman_demonson.html) synopsis gives a pretty good rundown of what was wrong with the story.