# Green Day - Why All the Hate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 18, 2005, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-day-why-all-the-hate/312924 "2005-07-18T01:05:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-day-why-all-the-hate/312924/41 "2005-07-18T16:49:23Z")
“It’s stupid, contagious To be broke and famous Won’t someone please save us From Punk Rock 101” - Bowling For Soup Kids? I’m a 39-year-old guy who never got into punk. _Boulevard of Broken Dreams_ is my favorite song right now. And I’m looking at the song as a musician. “American Idiot” is a great album. A _concept album_ of all things! Who woulda thunk it? Of course, my favorite band of all is Rush - a band who has had thirty-one years of success while only ever having _one_ Top 40 hit (_New World Man_ peaked at #23 in 1982.) ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-day-why-all-the-hate/312924/42 "2005-07-18T17:10:09Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > They aren’t real punks because they know how to play their instruments and put some thought into their craft. Ignorant. Listen to The Clash, or the Buzzcocks, or Gang of Four, or Husker Du (or the Minutemen, or…). Plenty of punks had talent and craftsmanship. Why everyone is assuming that people (especially punk fans) who don’t like Green Day don’t like them due to elitism is just as retarded an assumption as the perceived elitism itself. How about this simplified explanation: as far as punk music goes, Green Day’s songs do not stand up to the above-mentioned artists. Or, to not make it so seemingly objective sounding: I don’t like them compared to lots of others of the same genre. Heard it all before, a thousand times, and done much better in many cases. Even without any kind of sociological context, I’d feel the same way about their music. Too juvenile for my tastes. ---
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-day-why-all-the-hate/312924/43 "2005-07-18T18:22:01Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > Both Blondie and Green Day came up through the ranks of the punk scene. They were considered punk by the scene. That is, until they caught on with the public. Then, and only then, did they nay-sayers come out. (To be fair, Blondie’s sound went through some radical changes. Green Day’s music hasn’t changed that much, style-wise). Blondie - as you said, their musical style diverged from punk, and later music was New Wave than punk, ergo - New Wave band. Blondie’s members - again were part of the punk scene - which in some ways could get your band membership in to the punk scene. But if we use that definition, then The Pretenders, and the Go-Go’s were punk too. Red Hot Chili Peppers were once considered punk because the members were part of the scene, but their music was something different. Punk as a scene used to be quite inclusive, and actually “umbrella” a lot of now defined “alternative” genres of music within it because of principles about supporting underground music - and although the Chili Peppers were not called punk music by most punks, they were still accepted in the scene. When the Chili Peppers got commercial success, that also coincided with punk becoming more of a closed genre because of punk breaking into factions such as cross-over, screamo, emo, and whatnot. The punk music scene was no longer the only “non-mainstream” musical outlet, and the mainstream was becoming more aware of genre’s outside of Pop and Rock. The Chili Peppers’ sound was always their own - and they fathered a new genre of music. Here is another band that once was punk, The Goo-Goo Dolls. They used to be this raw punk band, and now they are more “alternative”. I see Blondie, as being similar to the Goo-Goo Dolls in that they both diverged from the punk music genre, and became something else. Green Day is another story. Reading about Green Day, they just were a little too “Green” to be part of the scene - and perhaps despite their fame, as they grow musically perhaps they can embrace more of the punk ideals. It may be hard for them though, considering by being on a major label and not interacting with the “street-level” scene for them to grow into being more than mall punk. I do like it they are embracing a political stance, but I would also like it if they supported the little guys on punk scene a bit more. From what I have read about Green Day, they were a bunch of kids (somewhere between 15 & 18) when they first came on the music scene. They definitely were not established as punk before their fame - and most likely, the punk scene considered them to be kids - not punks. I don’t know what type of impact they made in their local circle, or in their state in general pre-sucess, but I thought a few of the songs off their album Dookie when I first heard them sounded a bit like Bad Religion, but not my cup of tea either. I thought Offspring was better musically, and also had more “street-cred”. Sure, Offspring “sold out” according to some people, but despite being on a major label, they play with and promote smaller bands and still are members of the punk community, because they had been there themselves. In my opinion, Green Day could not have “sold out” because they were not punk scenesters and were a bit to young to be part of the underground before commercial success, and Offspring, kudos on them for making money, and it is very cool that they give back to other punk bands and the punk scene. As WoodstockBird said, a new distinction “Mall Punk” fits just as new wave fits for Blondie & Talking Heads. Probably he knows more about Green Day’s origins than I do, and from his view point Green Day does not fit into the genre of punk, but deserves a new classification of Mall Punk. > [@spooje](#): > > Some people will choose to listen or not listen to a band based on their popularity with the public at large. As if this decision gives them some kind of credibility. But it just makes them morons. On a personal level, I have never been anyone to begrudge success, and when I dislike a band, it has to do with the music. I like some metal, lots of rock, some old country, blues, new wave, indie, and my music collection is very diverse. Some of the bands I enjoy are very very commercially successful. Ramones were commercial successes - they even courted mainstream with songs geared towards that end, such as Rock & Roll High School, and some of their other ballads. The Clash sold records, and even did that “This is England” song - which was geared towards mainstream. But also as someone who grew up as part of the punk scene and considers it part of my identity, it does feel like commercial music has co-opted punk, and the subculture that defined it has been ignored. Regarding Punk in general: > [@Snickers](#): > > “I can’t tell you. But man, if you were one of us, then you’d know.” I will admit punk culture (and punk music) is hard to pin down exactly, and very difficult to explain. You almost need a cultural anthropologist to tell you what it is. Punk, the subculture is like a small nation or a tribe. Punk, the music is like the tribe’s music. There are aspects of punk such as a questioning and often a rejection of societal norms. Rebellion, and independence are also cultural values, as is the Do It Yourself ethic, and a general distrust of government and other institutions. > [@SenorBeef](#): > > That’s not completely true. I hate punk, think it’s irritating as shit, and usually dislike people who have to make a big statement about their uniqueness by confirming to a “non-conforming” sub-culture. Regarding conforming to a non-confirming subculture, some people who are punks just can’t figure it out either, but yes - this culture has its own cultural norms, and there is a uniformity in the look of many people are part of the punk scene. And if they can’t see it - then they are blind. But also, just as there are cultural norms, there are those within the scene who clash with the norms - and punk is in general very accepting of that. There are also those in the punk scene who think that the punk attitude is being a jerk, or that only extreme lefties are punk - but the punk subculture has more to do with a rejection of the mainstream society in general. > [@vtynos](#): > > a scene that isn’t sure what is credible and what is isn’t The issue of credibility within the punk scene, is about participation in the punk scene - according to what I have heard Green Day do not participate in the punk scene. They seem like the Vanilla Ice of punk in a way. The music is derivative, and just as Vanilla Ice was not a rapper from the 'hood - Green Day are not punkers from the scene according to most people. Woodstockbird, as someone who was there in the scene that Green Day originates from - perhaps you can shed some light on what Green Day’s involvement was, and perhaps some of the younger kids in the scene can shed some light on their involvement with the scene now, and if the facts are there - I would be willing to accept that they have a cultural connection to the punk scene. I would continue to consider their style somewhat derivative and weak compared to some of my favorite bands - but I would give them an ounce of street cred - if they are due. ---
**Author:** ![pinkfreud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pinkfreud/32/17603_2.png) [@pinkfreud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkfreud)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-day-why-all-the-hate/312924/44 "2005-07-18T18:35:36Z")
The Green Day hating reminds me of similar backlashes in the past against artists such as Henry Rollins and Frank Zappa. Too much popularity annoys fans who would like to view themselves and their music as “counter-culture.” If someone is selling millions of albums, they are no longer perceived as sullen rebels, and some fans are bound to holler that they sold out. ---
**Author:** ![Jenny\_Haniver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Jenny\_Haniver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenny_Haniver)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-day-why-all-the-hate/312924/45 "2005-07-18T19:10:05Z")
I don’t have anything to say that’s germane to the argument at had, but I want to pop in and say: **Vtynos** , I hope that you’ll join the SDMB for real when your trial period is done. ---
**Author:** ![Stringer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Stringer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringer)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-day-why-all-the-hate/312924/46 "2005-07-18T19:21:12Z")
Just wanted to say nice post, **vtynos**. I hope you decide to join the boards. ---
**Author:** ![by-tor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/by-tor/32/266_2.png) [@by-tor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/by-tor)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-day-why-all-the-hate/312924/47 "2005-07-18T19:29:51Z")
What is up with that fake British accent they sing with? ---
**Author:** ![Talon\_Karrde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Talon\_Karrde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Talon_Karrde)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-day-why-all-the-hate/312924/48 "2005-07-18T19:37:42Z")
I probably shot my mouth off a little in my post. When I think of Punk, I think of two things: 1: In the larger sense, I think of it as a loosely tied together group of bands in a scene that started in the 60’s in New York with The Velvet Underground and the New York Dolls and a little in Detroit with The Stooges and the MC5. Then I think of The Ramones as sort of the central point in Punk, with them being technically the first Punk band, and then with them carrying it into London. (Of course, Malcom McLaren brought it over earlier after being inspired by Richard Hell, but The Ramones really set it off). They did things themselves and in their own way. But Punk in the larger sense is also full of contradictions- Simple music with a humorous dumb image like The Ramones and more complicated music by intellectuals like Patti Smith and Television. In the larger sense, Punk does include New Wave and Post Punk. It’s my understanding that the term New Wave was created by the promoters so people wouldn’t be afraid to buy music labeled as Punk. Blondie, The Talking Heads, and Elvis Costello all count as Punk here. And I believe that this is what Punk was when it began, and this is what the people on the scene consider Punk. 2: There’s the musical genre punk. This is punk in the smaller sense, and I don’t think as much of this label. It seems that this is the one that people came up with later on. New Wave would be a different category, but it’s a useless distinction. Why are The Ramones punk and Blondie New Wave? The Ramones weren’t any less poppy, and especially later on their sound was cleaned up. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-day-why-all-the-hate/312924/49 "2005-07-18T21:14:49Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Don’t direct that at me. I don’t like punk music nor punk culture. It’s just pretty obvious to anyone who’s heard what’s considered punk to not look at green day as a watered down, commercialized variant of that. Oh, trust me, man, I’m not. I’m just a confused outsider that likes Green Day. I’d always heard that Green Day and Blondie could be considered examples of punk, saw their name in the title, and clicked on the thread. Where I found out that nope, absolutely not, not punk, no way no how. But as to what _is_ considered punk, I’m still rather at a loss. Names like The Ramones, Husker Du, The Clash, and Sex Pistols have been bandied about as being punk, but it seems like someone’ll come along soon and say, nope, not them either - too popular, too established, too fashionable, too well-known as a punk band to actually **be** punk, or some such reason. Leaving me even more confused: I still don’t really have a feel for what’s considered punk. I was agreeing with you about the “I’m conforming to non-conformity crowd.” Some of these youngsters you wanna whap upside the head and say, “Stop being so alternative just like everybody else.” I was thinking that perhaps Green Day could be a gateway band, a band that you’d point to for someone who’s totally unfamiliar with punk. “They’ve got a punkish sound, see if you like 'em and I can let you know what other bands to check out” sort of thing. Kind of like you might not point to Taj Mahal or Muddy Waters right away for someone whose looking into blues ; rather, you might pick out some Clapton or Lang or Tedeschi first to see if they liked the sound before directing them to the hard hitters. What are the punk ideals? What makes punk music punk? I still have no idea. And I’d always thought that the Red Hot Chili Peppers were funk. Ja, I have _no_ music cred. I’m okay with that. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-day-why-all-the-hate/312924/50 "2005-07-18T21:43:16Z")
> [@Snickers](#): > > And I’d always thought that the Red Hot Chili Peppers were funk. Ja, I have _no_ music cred. I’m okay with that. Funk metal, actually. But that’s neither here nor there. I think **Talon Karrde** ’s got the right approach here. On the one hand, punk is a musical movement that was pretty big from, say, 1976-1978 and influenced a lot of what came after. On the other hand, punk is a category on the same level as rock, metal, or country, with a lot of different genres–classic punk, post-punk, hardcore, pop punk, etc.–that fall under it. Pop punk is as good a label as any for Green Day, and if someone doesn’t want to consider that style real punk, then so be it. They should just be careful to brush up on the attributes of True Scotsmen. ---
**Author:** ![lexi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lexi/32/6806_2.png) [@lexi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lexi)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-day-why-all-the-hate/312924/51 "2005-07-18T22:05:44Z")
Chili Peppers were considered to be a funk/punk/metal crossover band in their early years until the experimental fusion of the genres gained more acceptance, and the crossover genre was accepted by funk fans. In the 80’s there was many fusion and crossover genres coming out of punk - and eventually many of them now are incorporated back into the mainstream folds instead of within punk. For example Metal punk crossover, is now just part of metal. For example is X was to come out now, they may have been considered to be rockabilly or country influenced indie music, Husker Du would be indie rock, and Minutemen as well would be indie instead. But that was in the days before every genre was hyphenated with another. I remember seeing gigs where one band would be what is now still punk style, a band with a metal sound, and another band that would be considered goth, all on one ticket. Regarding what is punk music, and how to define it any say what is or isn’t punk - there are many theories about that. Punk music started as a garage/deconstructionist musical genre which once accepted many other forms of music under a blanket of punk, and slowly became more defined and codified. Some people think punk is defined by a musical style. Some think it is defined as a cultural style. But to be honest punk is an evolving genre - and it is slowly reaching adulthood. Perhaps punk as a musical genre is still too young to define what is is conclusively. Only 15 years ago it was still a bucket for bands that mainstream rock didn’t know where to place would get lumped in with - and punk was associated with little or no commercial success or even chance of commercial success. Perhaps it is better to take an inclusive view and see it as a genre ripe with sub-genres as much as it’s parent genre of rock is - after all it started as a very inclusive genre musically. I think Mall Punk or Pop Punk are good enough labels for Green Day - and as someone else here mentioned, they perhaps can act as a gateway band for many kids who want to taste what punk is like musically before getting into the genre. As for the cultural genre - until I have evidence of Green Day’s participation in the punk community I will not see them as punks in the cultural sense. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-day-why-all-the-hate/312924/52 "2005-07-19T01:00:29Z")
Personally, I don’t like some of what passes for “punk” these days (Avril Lavigne? Blink 182?) but I give Green Day a lot of props for what they’ve done within the pop-punk movement. They have great songwriting, know their way around a hook, and managed to infuse punk with traditional pop sensibilities. While my musical tastes gravitate towards punk and post-punk (favorite bands include Wire, Gang of Four, X-Ray Spex), Green Day have somehow managed to make punk more radio friendly without stripping it of its soul. When _Dookie_ became popular, I was somewhat dismissive of Green Day, lopping them in with all those other pseudopunk bands. However, a few laters I came back to that album and realized that these guys knew what they were doing. They were writing great, catchy songs with an edge of the punk aesthetic. They weren’t poseurs in any of the word. If people hate Green Day, it shouldn’t be for Green Day themselves, but rather for all the knock-off bands they’ve inspiried. Their latest effort, _American Idiot_, ranks as one of my favorite albums of 2005 so far. ---
**Author:** ![gfloyd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d2c977/32.png) [@gfloyd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gfloyd)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-day-why-all-the-hate/312924/53 "2005-07-19T01:04:41Z")
I really like Green Day’s music. I liked them from the first time I heard them in the late 90s (I think). I like their old stuff, I like their new stuff. What I can totally understand is hating some of their fans. Particularly the mall rat, 12 year old girls in plaid pants and black tee shirts who think they are SO punk. My roommate and I went to the Warp tour last summer. She and I have been into to punk music since we were like 11. However, we did not feel the need to dress like the aformentioned fans, as well, that’s just not us. All of these bratty teenagers looked at us like we had no right to be there. Like we were trying to take over their subculture. Why we would want it, I’m not sure. I think a lot of the hatred for Green Day comes from the backlash of dealing with these people, not from the band in and of itseld. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-day-why-all-the-hate/312924/54 "2005-07-19T03:43:56Z")
> [@Snickers](#): > > Oh, trust me, man, I’m not. I’m just a confused outsider that likes Green Day. I’d always heard that Green Day and Blondie could be considered examples of punk, saw their name in the title, and clicked on the thread. Where I found out that nope, absolutely not, not punk, no way no how. But as to what _is_ considered punk, I’m still rather at a loss. Names like The Ramones, Husker Du, The Clash, and Sex Pistols have been bandied about as being punk, but it seems like someone’ll come along soon and say, nope, not them either - too popular, too established, too fashionable, too well-known as a punk band to actually **be** punk, or some such reason. Leaving me even more confused: I still don’t really have a feel for what’s considered punk. > > I was agreeing with you about the “I’m conforming to non-conformity crowd.” Some of these youngsters you wanna whap upside the head and say, “Stop being so alternative just like everybody else.” > What are the punk ideals? What makes punk music punk? I still have no idea. As I said, I have no problem lumping in Blondie or Green Day (or The Pretenders or the B-52s) under “punk”, because it all came from the same place, and punk, philosophically, is definitely inclusive (despite the elitism of some hardcore purists), but I find “New Wave” useful to distinguish the difference in sound. And, though Green Day definitely has the punk sound, it doesn’t come from the same set of circumstances as the late 70s-mid 80s punk/post-punk bands did. Record sales/popularity aren’t the issues - context is. As far as punk ideals, there are a number of books that pin it down better than I could. _Lipstick Traces_ by **Greil Marcus** is an excellent (if highfalutin) examination of the art/poltical/sociological influences that shaped the ethos (and, similarly, his _Ranters & Crowd Pleasers: Punk in Pop Music 1977-92_ has insightful essays on the subject); _England’s Dreaming_ by **Jon Savage** gives a nice social history of the first wave British punk scene; _Please Kill Me_ ed. by **Legs McNeil** and **Gillian McCain** is a good oral history of the New York scene that gave rise to The Ramones, Blondie, Talking Heads, Television, etc.; _Our Band Could Be Your Life: Scenes from the American Indie Underground 1981-1991_ by **Michael Azerrad** is an excellent account of the circumstances that went into creating the postpunk/hardcore/indie scene that gave us Husker Du, The Replacements, Black Flag, et al.; and there are a couple anthologies out by critic **Lester Bangs** (as well as his contemporaries **Robert Christgau, Richard Meltzer** and **Nick Tosches** ) that contain more punk theory (The essay on the Clash in Bangs’s _Psychotic Reactions And Carburetor Dung_ is particularly good). There are also documentaries out on The Clash, The Sex Pistols and THe Ramones on DVD that can help shed some light on the topic. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-day-why-all-the-hate/312924/55 "2005-07-19T08:53:11Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Why does this burn you up? It’s just as ignorant, to me, to claim there aren’t any opportunistic bandwagon-jumpers as it is to have an elitist view of music based solely on underground status. If you think there weren’t or aren’t poseurs, or that record companies don’t start looking for bands with the current hit sound (or encourage established artists to change their styles to fit new trends), you’re being naive. Does an artist’s motivation to make the music affect your enjoyment of it? Do you hear a song and like it, then dismiss it when you find it was made by “poseurs” or “sellouts”? I’m not claiming that artists can’t be opportunistic or be out to make a buck. I’m only saying that using\* that\* to base your opinion on (and I’m not saying that you do this), and not judging the music on it’s own merits, is the act of a poseur. I listen to music and either I like it or I think it sucks. The motivation or “cred” of who made it doesn’t factor in to my decision. Maybe because I’m older and I don’t have time to care about such things. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-day-why-all-the-hate/312924/56 "2005-07-19T10:48:42Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Personally, I don’t like some of what passes for “punk” these days (Avril Lavigne? Blink 182?) I have to give props to Avril for not trying to ride that bandwagon. I read an interview she gave and explictely stated that she wasn’t a punk. ---
**Author:** ![singular1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ba9def/32.png) [@singular1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/singular1)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-day-why-all-the-hate/312924/57 "2005-07-19T11:38:01Z")
> [@DeathOnTwoLegs](#): > > I don’t mean to make such a big deal out of this or anything, but when a friend of yours blocks your SN briefly just because you told them that you like Green Day, you tend to wonder just what is wrong. [hijack] I got no dog in this race, but I gotta know - what’s a SN? [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-day-why-all-the-hate/312924/58 "2005-07-19T12:25:33Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > I have to give props to Avril for not trying to ride that bandwagon. I read an interview she gave and explictely stated that she wasn’t a punk. She’s obviously changed her tune in recent years, because quotes like this is exactly how I remember her: > [@](#): > > “I created Punk for this day and age. Do you see Britney walking around wearing ties and singing punk? Hell no. That’s what I do. I’m like a Sid Vicious for a new generation.” Avril Lavigne (Seventeen Magazine, 2002) ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-day-why-all-the-hate/312924/59 "2005-07-19T12:39:07Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > Does an artist’s motivation to make the music affect your enjoyment of it? Do you hear a song and like it, then dismiss it when you find it was made by “poseurs” or “sellouts”? > > I’m not claiming that artists can’t be opportunistic or be out to make a buck. I’m only saying that using\* that\* to base your opinion on (and I’m not saying that you do this), and not judging the music on it’s own merits, is the act of a poseur. > > I listen to music and either I like it or I think it sucks. The motivation or “cred” of who made it doesn’t factor in to my decision. Maybe because I’m older and I don’t have time to care about such things. No, I think it has more to do with the motivation seeming apparent when I hear the song. I’m too old to worry about being cool, too - if I like something, I’m not going to worry about whether or not it’s going to be considered retarded by my peers (I’ve got plenty of guilty pleasures). But when I hear a song and the artist obviously has no stake in what they’re singing, or they’re trying to simulate emotion using vocal technique, or it just comes across as pro forma, it comes across, and I usually find it disgusting and crass. If it’s catchy enough, though, sometimes I’ll give in to the dark side. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2005, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-day-why-all-the-hate/312924/60 "2005-07-19T16:32:29Z")
Green Day earned my respect with their Live 8 set. However, when you do “We are the Champions” in front of a few hundred thousand people, are you still punk? They’re a great rock band. Isn’t that enough? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-day-why-all-the-hate/312924.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-day-why-all-the-hate/312924.md?page=4)