# Green Light Wimps **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 19, 2004, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741 "2004-04-19T00:53:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/21 "2004-04-19T12:29:35Z")
Damn, y’all are brave. I don’t go darting out the instant the light changes either. I see the light turning green as nothing more than one clue among others that it _might_ be safe to proceed. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/22 "2004-04-19T13:17:30Z")
> [@NBIT33](#): > > If you DON’T have a red arrow, then you STILL should go out into the middle if you are the next guy in line! I don’t care if people DO keep running the red. When they are finally done, then you can go. I know of no state where this is not true. (In all fairness, I am only familiar with Colorado, Washington & Utah 😃 ) The laws basically state the oncoming traffic has a duty to “allow traffic to clear the intersection before proceeding from a red light.” or some such verbiage. So…I think someone already said “lillylivered.” That works for me. ---
**Author:** ![auntie\_em](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@auntie\_em](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auntie_em)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/23 "2004-04-19T13:43:23Z")
> [@Jayn\_Newell](#): > > Geesh, am I the only one here who took drivers ed? Nope. I, too, learned in Driver’s Ed that you’re _supposed_ to pull into the intersection to make a left turn on a solid green. In fact, I got yelled at by my instructor for “ruining the flow of traffic” when I failed to do so. It was 20 years ago, but it stuck like a groupie’s lips on a rock star’s ass. I always pull out, and secretly wish the wrath of that driving instructor upon the people who don’t. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/24 "2004-04-19T14:31:59Z")
I agree with the poster who advocated pulling up but still being able to see the lights. I myself pull up as much as I can still see the lights, unless there is an opening I see I will be able to pull in in a few seconds. With one exception. At intersections that frequently have gridlock, I do NOT pull into the intersection unless I can go. Being the idiot who keeps 10 cars in the turn lane is better than being the idiot who blocks off oncoming traffic when there is no room to turn in to the cross street. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/25 "2004-04-19T14:35:18Z")
> [@Jayn\_Newell](#): > > Am I missing something here? > > If you’re making a left turn, when you have a green you pull into the intersection. If there are cars coming the other way going right or straight, you let them go as they have right of way. You wait until it is safe for you to complete your turn. If the light turns red before you can, that means you complete your turn once all approaching traffic has stopped and it is safe for you to go. That does not mean you hang around the intersection waiting for the next green. > > Geesh, am I the only one here who took drivers ed? Considering that this thread is about people who _don’t_ do what you’ve described, and most of the posts are in agreement with the OP, ahh, I guess not, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Consumer\_Sovereignty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Consumer\_Sovereignty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Consumer_Sovereignty)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/26 "2004-04-19T15:45:53Z")
In Australia (Perth, specifically), I was taught that, when there is _no_ turn arrow, or the arrow is NOT red (i.e., green or no arrow _shown_), you are obliged to pull 1 or so car lengths ahead of the stop line in order to turn. (And turn if it is safe to do so, or wait until it is safe to turn.) ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/27 "2004-04-19T16:02:21Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > At intersections that frequently have gridlock, Location: Orlando So that would be all of them, then? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/28 "2004-04-19T16:18:32Z")
> [@auntie em](#): > > I always pull out, and secretly wish the wrath of that driving instructor upon the people who don’t. 😃 Back in high school when I was pulling out, I sure wasn’t thinking of my Driver’s Ed teacher. [sub]I was saying a little prayer. “Please, God, next time I’ll be good and buy condoms beforehand!”[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Sister\_Vigilante](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Sister\_Vigilante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sister_Vigilante)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/29 "2004-04-19T17:35:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Seems wrong, to me, to jump out into the middle of an intersection when I know I’ll still be there when my light is red. Not if you freaking **go** when the light changes. Man I hate when people don’t get out there. Wasn’t it George Carlin who said that the rule is, you’re supposed to get up far enough so that when the light starts to change, you **and three people behind you** can go? I always follow these guidelines. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/30 "2004-04-19T17:36:40Z")
> [@if6was9](#): > > **Sample\_the\_Dog** , and The\_Dog is good! The one that REALLY makes me mad? If you’re turning left, and the opposite driver is turning left… as CLEARLY evidenced BY MY FRICKIN TURN SIGNAL… and the other guy still waits for me to actually turn til he will even move! WHAT!!! Did you think my frickin turn signal was a RUSE, to lure you into an accident!!! Did you think I was looking you in the eye and LYING to you??? Even though you use your turn signals as God intended, you put too much faith in your fellow drivers. So far as I can tell, a number of them must like the clicking noise or think “hey cool, my car lights up when I pull this lever!” And that number is high enough that I will wait until they actually begin to turn before I assume that they really mean that they’re about to go left. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/31 "2004-04-19T17:53:43Z")
> [@Algorithm](#): > > Maybe I wasn’t clear enough. The turning arrows are operating. I do not have the right of way. If I see an opening coming up in the traffic, and my light is still green, I’ll get out into the intersection and make my turn when the opening reaches me. If the traffic is very heavy, and there is no way for me to actually complete my turn until my own light has turned red, I’ll wait for the next arrow. I don’t understand something, If you have a green arrow, shouldn’t the onoming traffic have a red light? ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/32 "2004-04-19T18:06:05Z")
> [@Algorithm](#): > > Yes, as explained above. I feel like I’m inconveniencing more people by being in the middle of an intersection when cross traffic has a green light than by waiting for the next arrow. Seems wrong, to me, to jump out into the middle of an intersection when I know I’ll still be there when my light is red. It may “seem” wrong to you, but it is not. If you feel uncomfortable following the rules of the road, you really shouldn’t be driving at all. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/33 "2004-04-19T18:50:24Z")
> [@Libertarian](#): > > Damn, y’all are brave. I don’t go darting out the instant the light changes either. I see the light turning green as nothing more than one clue among others that it _might_ be safe to proceed. Brave? You misspelled suicidal, at least in the Bay Area where cars will enter an intersection at full speed picoseconds before the yellow light goes red, and often after. However, once a car is there, they should damn well move it. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/34 "2004-04-19T19:01:18Z")
I don’t know about where **Algorithm** lives but the [traffic code of the Commonwealth of Virginia](http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+TOC4602000) states: > [@](#): > > Green indicates the traffic shall move in the direction of the signal and remain in motion as long as the green signal is given, except that such traffic shall yield to other vehicles and pedestrians lawfully within the intersection. > > Steady amber indicates that a change is about to be made in the direction of the moving of traffic. When the amber signal is shown, traffic which has not already entered the intersection, including the crosswalks, shall stop if it is not reasonably safe to continue, but traffic which has already entered the intersection shall continue to move until the intersection has been cleared. [cite](http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-833) ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/35 "2004-04-19T19:30:56Z")
> [@Algorithm](#): > > Maybe I wasn’t clear enough. The turning arrows are operating. I do not have the right of way. If I see an opening coming up in the traffic, and my light is still green, I’ll get out into the intersection and make my turn when the opening reaches me. If the traffic is very heavy, and there is no way for me to actually complete my turn until my own light has turned red, I’ll wait for the next arrow. I think there’s a disconnect here. I think (and please correct me if I’m wrong) you two are confusing definitions of “operating”. I believe what \*\*Boyo Jim \*\* means by “not operating” is “working, but currently not lit” (i.e. the turn only period has ended, the general green is lit, and you need to get your ass into the intersection). It looks like you have interpreted “not operating” as “broken”. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/36 "2004-04-19T20:48:53Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > I think there’s a disconnect here. I think (and please correct me if I’m wrong) you two are confusing definitions of “operating”. I believe what \*\*Boyo Jim \*\* means by “not operating” is “working, but currently not lit” (i.e. the turn only period has ended, the general green is lit, and you need to get your ass into the intersection). It looks like you have interpreted “not operating” as “broken”. Your interpretation of my meaning is correct. I could be wrong, but I don’t think Algorithm is misinterpreting my meaning. Algorithm is just uncomfortable pulling out into the intersection in heavy traffic. I think Algorithm has simply made the wrong choice about how to act in the stated situation. I must insist that pulling into the intersection is even MORE important in roads with very heavy traffic. There are many roads in urban areas like Chicago when the ONLY chance you have to make a left is when your light is transitioning from green to red. You do not and you will not have a long enough break in the traffic flow to turn any other time. The exception seems to be NYC, if my very limited driving experience there is any indicator. I saw numerous drivers floor it and make a left the instant of (or before) their light turned green, _without_ the protection of a turning arrow. It seemed to be some kind of local unwritten rule that I’ve never seen anywhere else. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/37 "2004-04-19T21:31:46Z")
> [@Boyo Jim](#): > > . There are many roads in urban areas like Chicago when the ONLY chance you have to make a left is when your light is transitioning from green to red. You do not and you will not have a long enough break in the traffic flow to turn any other time. A nitpick here, but I think Algorithm is saying that he only does this in intersections that have a controlling green arrow. So then it wouldn’t be true that the _only_ chance you have to turn is when the light is turning red. You would in fact be able to turn at the next cycle, when you get the green arrow. However, Algorithm is wrong in making that choice. Once that green arrow changes to a solid green light, you treat it exactly the same as any other green light, and pull into the intersection so that you’re ready to make your left turn. The only time you should stop behind the limit line is if left turns are allowed ONLY on a green arrow. If that’s the case, you will get a RED arrow indicating that you must stop. Turning left after the light has turned yellow, or even red, is not something to be feared. It is a skill that is necessary to successfully operate a motor vehicle. I used to be a driving instructor, and I spent a lot of time on that, because it can be very stressful for beginners. The solution is not to _avoid_ it, but to learn the skill properly in the first place. I am very bothered by drivers who hold up others because they are afraid to follow the proper procedures. Nobody said driving a car is easy - that’s why you need a license. You can’t just avoid the difficult parts because you’re afraid. > [@](#): > > The exception seems to be NYC, if my very limited driving experience there is any indicator. I saw numerous drivers floor it and make a left the instant of (or before) their light turned green, _without_ the protection of a turning arrow. It seemed to be some kind of local unwritten rule that I’ve never seen anywhere else. That’s dangerous, but I don’t know if it’s strictly illegal. I think the laws usually say that you can turn when it’s clear. So it wouldn’t be illegal because you went first, per se, but rather because you interfered with the progress of the people coming the other way. (Or if the light hadn’t turned green yet, of course.) ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2004, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/38 "2004-04-19T23:20:17Z")
Excellent post, **blowero**. Can you come to Calgary and teach people how to merge next? ---
**Author:** ![Lando\_Griffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f17d59/32.png) [@Lando\_Griffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lando_Griffin)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/39 "2004-04-20T01:40:21Z")
I nearly always pull out past the white line, unless I see an uninturrepted flow of traffic coming from the opposite direction. In that situation, I wait behind the white line because I don’t want to risk getting hit by one of the half-dozen or so jackasses who insists on running the red light. (Yes, I’ve had several close encounters with these utter fuckwits. I also had a problem with a woman who was trying to eat, talk on a cell phone, and drive at the same time. Apparently, she decided green=go, even though I was still turning.) I also make sure not to pull out too far, as I loathe drivers who decide to be the fourth or fifth car to run the red light to turn left. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/40 "2004-04-20T01:50:18Z")
> [@Bambi Hassenpfeffer](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by Ludovic > > At intersections that frequently have gridlock, > > Location: Orlando > > So that would be all of them, then? 😛 Incorrect. “Frequently” implies the gridlock occasionally ceases. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741.md?page=3)