# Green Light Wimps **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 19, 2004, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741 "2004-04-19T00:53:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/41 "2004-04-20T02:14:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Location: Orlando > > So that would be all of them, then? > [@](#): > > Incorrect. > > “Frequently” implies the gridlock occasionally ceases. haha yall 🙂 No, I actually live east of Orlando. In Orlando per se, traffic is indeed always bad (or at least always THERE, even at o-dark-thirty.) But at Alafaya and Colonial, an intersection east of Orlando (near UCF) I used to live near, there was genuine gridlock during rush hour at least once a week. Meaning, people were trying to go East on Colonial, but traffic going east had backed up, but people STILL turn into the intersection when they get a left turn light. Then, the left turn light ends and the “regular” green light begins. But the people cannot proceed because cars are still blocking their way. Sometimes an entire light cycle (make your own Tron joke here) would go through where no one could go in more than 2 of the 4 directions. ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/42 "2004-04-20T02:35:51Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > but traffic going east had backed up, but people STILL turn into the intersection when they get a left turn light. Then, the left turn light ends and the “regular” green light begins. But the people cannot proceed because cars are still blocking their way. Sometimes an entire light cycle (make your own Tron joke here) would go through where no one could go in more than 2 of the 4 directions. That happens to me at about 3 of the ~12 intersections I pass through on my 7-mile (25-minute!) commute. Frustrating, but part of life in a county of 1 million people crammed into its 35-mile length. It’s abating somewhat now that the foreigners (read: non-Floridians) are fleeing the approaching summer. Our traffic around here isn’t too awful, but I giggle when I read about “rush hour” in other parts of the country – we have two kinds of traffic: packed and packeder. The only relief is between 3a - 5a, and not always then, especially if you’re returning from Ybor or another of the clubbing spots. ---
**Author:** ![galt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@galt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galt)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/43 "2004-04-20T03:04:52Z")
> [@Algorithm](#): > > I feel like I’m inconveniencing more people by being in the middle of an intersection when cross traffic has a green light than by waiting for the next arrow. That’s why you’re officially one of the pussies in question. Sorry to tell you. The idea is that you creep out there, and as your light turns red, giving the green to the cross-traffic, you complete your turn. Since the cross-traffic does not magically zoom through the intersection the nanosecond the light turns green, you have plenty of time to perform this maneuver without getting your timid little ass handed to you. The alternative is to unnecessariliy delay other people while you ignore the rules of the road, which understandably makes them pissed off at you, because it’s fucking annoying. A question: do you practice this annoying behavior at lights where there is no green arrow at any point in the cycle? If so, your method means you could be sitting there holding up traffic indefinitely. That’s why we don’t do it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Jaade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@Jaade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaade)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/44 "2004-04-20T04:27:07Z")
Hmmm, I thought this thread was going to be about people who brake when going through a GREEN light and then continue driving straight…I have never understood that. ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/45 "2004-04-20T07:52:53Z")
In California, the rules of the road indicate that you should wait at the white line until you can complete the turn: > [@](#): > > Do not enter an intersection, even when the light is green, unless you can get completely across before the light turns red. If you block the intersection, you can be cited. [cite](http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/pgs16thru17.htm) This situation very seldom comes up, though, as the vast majority of intersections where I drive have dedicated left turn signals with green and red left turn arrows. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/46 "2004-04-20T10:33:51Z")
> [@galt](#): > > A question: do you practice this annoying behavior at lights where there is no green arrow at any point in the cycle? Why don’t we take a quick peek at the _very first sentence_ that algorithm posted. > [@](#): > > In intersections that have green arrows, I’ll wait at the line if the arrow isn’t lit up. Oh, and how’s about the first line of his second post, too? > [@](#): > > Maybe I wasn’t clear enough. The turning arrows are operating. Dude, the guy posted 3 times in this thread and said twice that he was specifically talkiing about lights with arrows, and mentioned waiting for the arrow in the third post. I think it’s safe to say that he only does this at lights with arrows. ---
**Author:** ![BoBettie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@BoBettie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoBettie)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/47 "2004-04-20T11:55:43Z")
Here’s what is probably a dumb semi-related question. If I’m waiting to make a right and the light has a red arrow, do I HAVE to wait until I get a green arrow (assuming there is no “no right on red” sign or other signage)? I never really know and I always forget to ask. I live in NC. (I usually do go, but I always just hope I don’t get a ticket for it) ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/48 "2004-04-20T12:08:42Z")
It varies from state to state Zette. I know in Missouri it is legal to turn right on a red light unless otherwise stated. I do believe in Kansas it is not legal, however. I have never actually looked in the Kansas law books though, I am just going on what other people have said. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Bruce\_Daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Daddy)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/49 "2004-04-20T12:18:33Z")
> [@Zette](#): > > Here’s what is probably a dumb semi-related question. If I’m waiting to make a right and the light has a red arrow, do I HAVE to wait until I get a green arrow (assuming there is no “no right on red” sign or other signage)? I never really know and I always forget to ask. I live in NC. (I usually do go, but I always just hope I don’t get a ticket for it) If there is also a green/yellow turn light, I would say so. The green arrow would be to let you know to go if the perpendicular traffic is turning left. Since the traffic to the right of you is turning left there is no one coming from the left so you’re clear to turn right, therefore the green right-turn arrow. But if there is no “No turn on red” sign, if you’re clear to go, do it. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/50 "2004-04-20T13:26:29Z")
Just an additional note to turning right on red lights (which is legal everywhere in Canada except Quebec, I believe); it’s still a red light for you, and you still HAVE TO STOP FIRST!!! I almost never see a driver coming to a stop then turning right on a red; I do, because I can’t afford tickets (and the whole safety thing), and I’m sure some dim bulb is going to plow right into the back of my car someday, and get mad at _me_ because I made my legal stop. ---
**Author:** ![MarkofT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@MarkofT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarkofT)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/51 "2004-04-20T16:27:14Z")
> [@Boyo Jim](#): > > You are still not clear. > > If you have a green arrow, you should be turning. > If you have a red arrow, you should wait before the intersection. > If you have no arrow, you should be out in that intersection waiting to turn, unless there are other cars witing ahead of you in line. > > Do you take issue with this? The last statement I do disagree with. How is pulling out into the intersection to turn left any different the pulling into the middle of the intersection and stopping due to the road straight ahead being blocked? You are still blocking the intersection. > [@if6was9](#): > > **Sample\_the\_Dog** , and The\_Dog is good! The one that REALLY makes me mad? If you’re turning left, and the opposite driver is turning left… as CLEARLY evidenced BY MY FRICKIN TURN SIGNAL… and the other guy still waits for me to actually turn til he will even move! WHAT!!! Did you think my frickin turn signal was a RUSE, to lure you into an accident!!! Did you think I was looking you in the eye and LYING to you??? > > Sorry… breathing… this is just a real pet peeve… Yes, actually. I do think you are lying to me and trying to get me into an accident. It’s not paranoia if they really are out to get you. > [@Jean Grey](#): > > Not if you freaking **go** when the light changes. > > Man I hate when people don’t get out there. Wasn’t it George Carlin who said that the rule is, you’re supposed to get up far enough so that when the light starts to change, you **and three people behind you** can go? > > I always follow these guidelines. Last I checked, George Carlin was a satiricaly comedian, not a driving instructor. > [@featherlou](#): > > Just an additional note to turning right on red lights (which is legal everywhere in Canada except Quebec, I believe); it’s still a red light for you, and you still HAVE TO STOP FIRST!!! I almost never see a driver coming to a stop then turning right on a red; I do, because I can’t afford tickets (and the whole safety thing), and I’m sure some dim bulb is going to plow right into the back of my car someday, and get mad at _me_ because I made my legal stop. I’m pretty sure I’ll get run over in those same instances. In any case, the crux of the problem is that the local road department needs to either lengthen the green arrow or add a green arrow if one isn’t present in order to properly allow the flow of traffic. Everyone running a red light to turn left does not let the road department know that they need to modify traffic the traffic flow in that intersection. Complaints that noone can turn left will get their attention. ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/52 "2004-04-20T16:39:52Z")
> [@Zette](#): > > Here’s what is probably a dumb semi-related question. If I’m waiting to make a right and the light has a red arrow, do I HAVE to wait until I get a green arrow (assuming there is no “no right on red” sign or other signage)? I never really know and I always forget to ask. I live in NC. (I usually do go, but I always just hope I don’t get a ticket for it) From [here](http://www.dmv.dot.state.nc.us/driverlicense/DriversHandbook/Chapter5/TrafficSignals.html), in reference to circular red signals: > [@](#): > > Unless there is a sign indicating “NO TURN ON RED," you can turn right on red after stopping and making sure that the turn can be made safely. North Carolina law requires the red signal to be placed at the top of the signaling unit and the green signal to be placed at the bottom. However, the same page, in reference to red arrows, without specifying a direction: > [@](#): > > A red arrow means turning traffic must stop. I know for a fact that in Florida, a red arrow overrides the permission to turn right on a red. If it’s a protected right-turn lane (as some in my area are), then there is usually a red circle and a green arrow – you can turn on the red (if clear) or on the green; however, there are also intersections near here that have a protected right-turn lane with a red arrow and a green arrow. FHP likes to sit at these and ticket people who turn right on the red arrow. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/53 "2004-04-20T16:42:20Z")
[QUOTE=Number Six] In California, the rules of the road indicate that you should wait at the white line until you can complete the turn: > [@](#): > > Do not enter an intersection, even when the light is green, unless you can get completely across before the light turns red. If you block the intersection, you can be cited. ]/quote] > [cite](http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/pgs16thru17.htm) Virginia has that too but it doesn’t apply to turning vehicles here. ---
**Author:** ![D.E.S.K.Top668](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@D.E.S.K.Top668](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D.E.S.K.Top668)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/54 "2004-04-20T17:24:51Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > Turning left after the light has turned yellow, **or even red** , is not something to be feared. It is a skill that is necessary to successfully operate a motor vehicle. I used to be a driving instructor, and I spent a lot of time on that, because it can be very stressful for beginners.bolding mine At least in Irwindale, Ca. and Henderson, Nv., it can also get you a ticket. I speak from experience. Please note, **blowlero** , I’m not arguing with you in theory, but I’ve received tickets in both places for turning left on red. When I mentioned that I was in the intersection and people had run the yellow instead of stopping, the reply was {paraphrasing)“If the turn arrow wasn’t lit, you should have been behind the line unless you were sure you could make the turn before red” One of my pet peeves is people behind me who “know” what I should do better then I do. I’m not talking about anybody in this thread specifically. At my employer’s previous location, at one intersection it was almost impossible to turn (at least from 5:00 to about 5:30) unless you had a green arrow, . Hell, you’d be lucky if there weren’t cars stuck in the intersection at the red. You could tell what people were regulars in the area because they didn’t pull out. For those that did, there was usually a cop sitting there to hand out tickets for a left turn on red. Peace - DESK ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/55 "2004-04-20T17:41:30Z")
> [@MarkofT](#): > > The last statement I do disagree with. How is pulling out into the intersection to turn left any different the pulling into the middle of the intersection and stopping due to the road straight ahead being blocked? You are still blocking the intersection. You’re blocking it for about 2 seconds. And if you check you will find that there are precious few intersections where it turns green one way the instant it turns red in the other. Nearly all of them have about 2-3 seconds where it’s red in _both_ directions. Wanna guess why they’re designed that way? > [@galt](#): > > Since the cross-traffic does not magically zoom through the intersection the nanosecond the light turns green, you have plenty of time to perform this maneuver without getting your timid little ass handed to you. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/56 "2004-04-20T17:48:17Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > No, I actually live east of Orlando. That wouldn’t be in a town with a demolition derby in it, would it? > [@](#): > > But at Alafaya and Colonial, an intersection east of Orlando (near UCF) I used to live near, there was genuine gridlock during rush hour at least once a week. Tell me the story of my life. I live at Alafaya and University, and I can assure you it’s just as bad going southbound. When UCF and the research park disgorge at 5, it can take 20 minutes to get from University to Colonial. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/57 "2004-04-20T17:51:14Z")
> [@D.E.S.K.Top668](#): > > At least in Irwindale, Ca. and Henderson, Nv., it can also get you a ticket. I speak from experience. > Please note, **blowlero** , I’m not arguing with you in theory, but I’ve received tickets in both places for turning left on red. When I mentioned that I was in the intersection and people had run the yellow instead of stopping, the reply was {paraphrasing)“If the turn arrow wasn’t lit, you should have been behind the line unless you were sure you could make the turn before red” I won’t argue with you, but I would have taken it to court, because that’s just absurd. I drive through intersections all the time that have no controlling arrows. If one were not allowed to turn left after the light has changed, there are many places where it would be literally impossible to make a left turn. You would just be sitting behind the limit line all day. What’s more, sometimes when there _is_ a green arrow, it will go off after a certain interval so that only a solid green circular light remains. If one were to come to such an intersection, one wouldn’t know if a green arrow were coming on the next cycle or not. Are you just supposed to wait and hold up traffic _just in case_ a green arrow might be coming, maybe? Sometimes the green arrows only operate during certain hours. Remind me to stay out of Irwindale.😉 That’s contrary to everything I was taught, everything I taught my students, and the way that everyone does it. You can do it that way, but I hope you like the sound of horns honking at you. > [@](#): > > One of my pet peeves is people behind me who “know” what I should do better then I do. I’m not talking about anybody in this thread specifically. At my employer’s previous location, at one intersection it was almost impossible to turn (at least from 5:00 to about 5:30) unless you had a green arrow, . Hell, you’d be lucky if there weren’t cars stuck in the intersection at the red. You could tell what people were regulars in the area because they didn’t pull out. For those that did, there was usually a cop sitting there to hand out tickets for a left turn on red. > Peace - DESK Wow, I didn’t know Barney Fife was still around. ---
**Author:** ![D.E.S.K.Top668](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@D.E.S.K.Top668](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D.E.S.K.Top668)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/58 "2004-04-20T19:03:07Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > Remind me to stay out of Irwindale.😉 That’s a good idea just on general priciple 🙂 > [@blowero](#): > > Wow, I didn’t know Barney Fife was still around. Barney Fife would have been an improvement. Now I think about it, Barney the Dinosaur would have been an improvement. Peace - DESK ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/59 "2004-04-20T19:19:02Z")
> [@D.E.S.K.Top668](#): > > Barney Fife would have been an improvement. Now I think about it, Barney the Dinosaur would have been an improvement. > > Peace - DESK Now I’m picturing a purple dinosaur with mirror shades riding around on a motorcycle. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Phedre\_no\_Delaunay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/839c29/32.png) [@Phedre\_no\_Delaunay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phedre_no_Delaunay)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741/60 "2004-04-20T19:23:29Z")
In Tennessee you have to stop at the white line while waiting to make a left turn. > [@](#): > > You should not pull into an intersection to make a turn until your path is clear. [cite](http://www.state.tn.us/safety/graphics/chaptr8.pdf) (it’s PDF, sorry) Scroll down to page 7. I was going to look at info for other states, but I got sick of wading through mounds of PDF documents. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/green-light-wimps/240741.md?page=4)