# Greensleeves/What Child is This? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 14, 2007, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960 "2007-06-14T04:47:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/41 "2007-06-14T14:48:43Z")
“Greensleeves” was the song played during my wedding processional. Now it’s a wedding song for me. ---
**Author:** ![Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bites_when_provoked/32/18073_2.png) [@Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bites_When_Provoked)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/42 "2007-06-14T14:52:59Z")
I’ve never heard “What Child is This?” but I’m very familiar with Greensleeves. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/43 "2007-06-14T14:54:50Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] “Greensleeves” was the song played during my wedding processional. Now it’s a wedding song for me. [/QUOTE] With the lyrics of Greensleeves being what they are, aren’t you tempting fate playing it as a wedding processional? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/44 "2007-06-14T14:59:01Z")
I first knew it as the Christmas carol, but now think of it as Greensleeves but have a hard time divesting it of Xmas connotations (but for some reason in my head I hear the two performed in different keys or something (maybe as Fachverwirrt described?). Now when I hear either, though, I am just reminded of how much I sort of like 15th c chanson but detest 16th c madrigal. Perhaps it’s because of Renaissance fair-types and Robin Hood movies? Pagan holdover? It’s so obviously 16th century. . . wonder where that idea came from? Isn’t the tune of Twinkle Twinkle Little Star et al W.A. Mozart from the Well-tempered Clavier, or am I misremembering something? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/45 "2007-06-14T15:18:19Z")
[QUOTE=capybara] Isn’t the tune of Twinkle Twinkle Little Star et al W.A. Mozart from the Well-tempered Clavier, or am I misremembering something? [/QUOTE] It’s from Hayden’s Surprise Symphony (The same tune is also used for "Bah Bah Black Sheep and the Alphabet song). The Well-Tempered Clavier is Bach, not Mozart. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/46 "2007-06-14T15:45:39Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] It’s from Hayden’s Surprise Symphony (The same tune is also used for "Bah Bah Black Sheep and the Alphabet song). The Well-Tempered Clavier is Bach, not Mozart. [/QUOTE] The original tune is a French melody called “Ah ! vous dirai-je, Maman”. Mozart wrote variations on it. Haydn may have had it in mind when he wrote the Surprise Symphony (and it may be quoted in there somewhere; I’m not that familiar with the piece), but neither he nor Mozart actually wrote the melody. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/47 "2007-06-14T15:47:01Z")
[QUOTE=Noone Special] Greensleeves. Never heard of What Child is This. [/QUOTE] Likewise. ---
**Author:** ![robz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac8455/32.png) [@robz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robz)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/48 "2007-06-14T16:01:27Z")
In answer to th OP always Greensleeves. It has been my favorite tune since a music teacher played in grade school. For some strange reason the song resonates with me, from the first time I heard it. I often listen to it and my DW thinks I am an ass for listening to Christmas music out of season. We were taught it was an old English song about a women left behind as her lover went to war. The green sleeve was a scarf worn around the arm as a token from her man. The Wikpedia has a different story. Wikpedia did mention Neil Young played the song. Anyone know which album? thanks BZ ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/49 "2007-06-14T16:03:25Z")
Originally learned “What Child is This”, but leaning more towards “Greensleeves” the longer I play with the SCA. I’ve heard other lyrics put to the tune, including “Breaking Up Is Hard To Do.” (The reverse sounds cooler.) I’ve never heard of a pagan connection. Instead, I heard that according to medieval color symbology, wearing green in art was a sign of fickleness. I’m ready to be corrected on that, though. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/50 "2007-06-14T16:07:35Z")
_Greensleeves_ But I don’ t know the words to _Greensleeves_ so if I’m singing it, it’s _What Child Is This_. And I did NOT know _Twinkle Twinkle_ and the Alphabet Song were the same tune. Ignorance fought! ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/51 "2007-06-14T16:11:04Z")
[QUOTE=Aspidistra] Greensleeves. Even if I heard it round Christmas my reaction would be “oh yeah, it’s that carol to the tune of Greensleeves” [/QUOTE] Yep. It’s a fun song to filk, too, both versions. ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/52 "2007-06-14T16:14:25Z")
Greensleeves for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/53 "2007-06-14T16:25:14Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Did you know that 90% of songs printed in books will fit to the tune of Greensleeves? Try it! You might have to Alanis a few of the words to fit, but it makes those boring “poems” a lot more interesting when you read them aloud to your kids: **Song of Nimrodel** (by JRR Tolkien) An Elven-maid there was of old, A shining star by day: Her mantle white was hemmed with gold, Her shoes of silver-grey. A star was bound upon her brows, A light was on her hair As sun upon the golden boughs In Lórien the fair. [/QUOTE] Dear heavens. That song also works with _The Yellow Rose of Texas_ :eek: . In fact, it scans \*better \* with _The Yellow Rose of Texas_. Tolkien will never be the same to me. [Note: I thought of _The Yellow Rose of Texas_ because you’re supposed to be able to sing all of Emily Dickenson’s poems to that, so it’s sort of my default “tune” when thinking of poems and music.] Oh, yeah, and as far as \*What Child is This/Greensleeves \* goes, I tend to hear both overlapping, which makes for a great confusion in my brain. Ow! ---
**Author:** ![Labdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Labdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labdad)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/54 "2007-06-14T16:29:51Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] But I don’ t know the words to _Greensleeves_ so if I’m singing it, it’s _What Child Is This_. [/QUOTE] I’m sure there are a bunch of verses, but the opening verse and chorus (as I know them) are: "Alas, my love, you do me wrong, To cast me off discourteously. When I have loved\* you so long, Delighting in your company. Chorus: Greensleeves was all my joy Greensleeves was my delight, Greensleeves was my heart of gold, And who but my lady greensleeves." “loved” is pronounced “luv-ed” (two syllables) here ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/55 "2007-06-14T16:36:44Z")
When I first heard What Child is This, I thought “They made a Christmas song out of Greensleeves? Since when?” Born and raised Catholic, too. Am I the only one who thinks of Family Ties whenever I hear Greensleeves? Or Kathleen Woodiweis? I think so. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/56 "2007-06-14T17:00:39Z")
[QUOTE=Idle Thoughts] But my roomate and I are arguing over this tune. He was singing it and I said “Singing Christmas songs this early?” [/QUOTE] Okay, I’m confused. If he was singing it, wouldn’t he have been singing the words to one or the other? Wouldn’t you have been able to tell by the words that it wasn’t the Christmas carol? Anyway, to answer the question, I first learned “What Child Is This?” and know the lyrics to the carol but not to Greensleeves, so that would be the first thing I think of. However, I’ve known for as long as I can remember that “What Child” is “to the tune of Greensleves” and have heard the tune in non-Christmas contexts (e.g. Vaughan Williams’s “Fantasia on Greensleeves”). I wonder if British people and/or anglophiles are more likely to associate the tune with Greensleeves, that being an English folk (?) song. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/57 "2007-06-14T17:01:48Z")
I am \*really \*surprised by the results of this survey, particularly from US respondents (since WCIT? is apparently an American carol). You would think that most people would be exposed at an early age to more Christmas carols than they would renaissance folk tunes…so much for this being a “culturally Christian” country, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![ASAKMOTSD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@ASAKMOTSD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASAKMOTSD)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/58 "2007-06-14T17:03:38Z")
[QUOTE=astorian] I learned it as the theme to “Lassie” long before I knew of either “Greensleeves” or “What Child Is This”! [/QUOTE] Close, but not the same tune. ---
**Author:** ![hawksgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ed655f/32.png) [@hawksgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawksgirl)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/59 "2007-06-14T17:21:48Z")
What Child every time. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/60 "2007-06-14T17:29:03Z")
Greenfleeves. That’s a rather unlikely title… for a fong? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960.md?page=4)