# Greensleeves/What Child is This? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 14, 2007, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960 "2007-06-14T04:47:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/61 "2007-06-14T17:45:56Z")
Greensleeves, when sung properly, never fails to bring a tear to my eye. I’ve always thought “What Child” was lazy for pinching the melody. Loreena McKinnit’s version brings a lump to my throat. It sounds so sad. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/62 "2007-06-14T17:55:21Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] With the lyrics of Greensleeves being what they are, aren’t you tempting fate playing it as a wedding processional? 🙂 [/QUOTE] Oof! I was thinking the same thing. There’s a world of aching heartbreak in that song of lost love. Why it’s on par with a hurtin’ country western tune in that respect. Granted a buddy of mine got married and the “wedding song” was about adultery. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/63 "2007-06-14T18:16:27Z")
[QUOTE=Yllaria] Originally learned “What Child is This”, but leaning more towards “Greensleeves” the longer I play with the SCA. I’ve heard other lyrics put to the tune, including “Breaking Up Is Hard To Do.” (The reverse sounds cooler.) [/QUOTE] “Greensleeves/What Child is This” is also remarkably similar to “I Saw Three Ships”. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/64 "2007-06-14T18:20:35Z")
[QUOTE=Annie-Xmas] I first heard this tune at summer camp as “Away With Me.” It’s from the show “How the West was Won.” Away away come away with me Where the grass grows wild and the wind blows free. Away away come away with me And I’ll build you a home in the meadow. [/QUOTE] Ditto. That was my father’s favorite movie and that’s how he sang it. I learned Greensleeves and What Child later on and about the same time. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/65 "2007-06-14T18:27:26Z")
[QUOTE=fachverwirrt] (There’s also the matter of whether it’s played/sung correctly; it rarely is. It’s wrong on the linked page. It should be Dorian, not minor; the fifth note (sixth scale degree) should be a half step higher.) [/QUOTE] Thank you. The “minor” version is not only wrong, it’s boring. And its name is “Greensleeves.” They should change “What Child is This?” to “What Song is This?” ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/66 "2007-06-14T18:28:35Z")
_Greensleeves_. I learned it as _What Child Is This_ way later, and even I was humming “Greensleeves was my heart and joy…” under my breath as I sang it. **Lute Skywatcher** , I think I’ve learned a different version of _I Saw Three Ships_ than you have… 😕 The one I know goes: middle C-F-F-G-A-C-A-G, B flat-A-F-F, A-G-middle C-middle C… ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/67 "2007-06-14T18:34:54Z")
True, but it fits _Greensleeves_ well enough. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/68 "2007-06-14T18:39:35Z")
[QUOTE=Swallowed My Cellphone] I’ve always thought “What Child” was lazy for pinching the melody. [/QUOTE] It’s not uncommon for hymns to be set to pre-existing melodies. ([Martin Luther]Why should the Devil have all the good tunes?[/Martin Luther]) If you look in a hymnal, for each hymn it’ll list the name of the tune (e.g. for “What Child Is This” the tune is “Greensleeves”). It’ll also give the composer and the lyricist, and sometimes their lifetimes don’t overlap. And if you look at the index of tunes in the back, you’ll see that more than one hymn often has the same tune. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/69 "2007-06-14T18:40:34Z")
[QUOTE=MaxTheVool] Greenfleeves. That’s a rather unlikely title… for a fong? [/QUOTE] He was Titus Andronicus. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/70 "2007-06-14T20:22:08Z")
[QUOTE=melvin coznowski] I’ve since heard it played from ice cream trucks, and have thought “What a depressing song to play!” To me, it’s like playing “Ode to Billy Joe” at a 6-year old’s birthday party… :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Yes, that surprises me too. I thought ice cream trucks were supposed to play peppy tunes. I know it as What Child Is This and was startled the first time I heard the tune in other context. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/71 "2007-06-14T21:46:04Z")
[QUOTE=jsc1953] I am \*really \*surprised by the results of this survey, particularly from US respondents (since WCIT? is apparently an American carol). You would think that most people would be exposed at an early age to more Christmas carols than they would renaissance folk tunes…so much for this being a “culturally Christian” country, I guess. [/QUOTE] I’m shocked by the results as well. I thought “What Child Is This” was one of the more popular carols. Anyway, hearing it, it sounds like WCIT as first, but there’s something not quite right about what would be the ends of lines were there words. I’d of though “Huh, they screwed up What Child Is This” before thinking of Greensleeves though I’ve heard of the WCIT/Greensleeves connection before. ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2007, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/72 "2007-06-14T23:52:01Z")
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] “Greensleeves/What Child is This” is also remarkably similar to “I Saw Three Ships”. [/QUOTE] 😕 Beyond the meter, I don’t see - er, hear much resemblance. What Child first, then Greensleeves. To thoroughly muddle up things, I’ve used the organ transcription of Vaughn Williams _Greensleeves_ as Christmas music. Speaking of ice cream trucks, one that wanders our neighborhood blares out _La Cucaracha_. I don’t know about you, but I’ll be durned if I’ll buy a food product from someone who plays a song about cockroaches. . . . ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/73 "2007-06-15T00:38:08Z")
Greensleeves. What child is this is a popular Christmas song, but I will identify the song as Greensleeves, which came first. I have seen carols where they gave the words to What Child is This and said sung to the melody of Greensleeves. Did you know that hymnals list what other song melodies you can use in the book as an alternative to the one on that page. Only some of the songs have the alternative melody reference. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/74 "2007-06-15T01:49:34Z")
[QUOTE=Harmonious Discord] Did you know that hymnals list what other song melodies you can use in the book as an alternative to the one on that page. Only some of the songs have the alternative melody reference. [/QUOTE] But many of them have the metric number at the bottom of the page, and then you can go to the back of the hymnal, check what other songs have the same meter and then know that you could probably sing Song A to the tune of Song B and the words would fit even if it sounded really funny. Sometimes, there are lulls during Church services. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/75 "2007-06-15T02:20:02Z")
[QUOTE=BJMoose] 😕 Beyond the meter, I don’t see - er, hear much resemblance. [/quote] Maybe it’s just me but I have trouble keeping the two melodies straight. > [@](#): > > Speaking of ice cream trucks, one that wanders our neighborhood blares out _La Cucaracha_. I don’t know about you, but I’ll be durned if I’ll buy a food product from someone who plays a song about cockroaches. . . . Nobody really knows what “La Cucaracha” is about but one thing’s for sure, [it’s not literally about cockroaches](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/010727.html). ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/76 "2007-06-15T07:10:08Z")
[QUOTE=astorian] To use an analogy, “God Save the Queen” and “America (My Country Tis of Thee”) have the same melody. So, if I heard a marching band playing that tune, how would I identify it? By geography. If I hear it played in the USA (or in an AMerican movie or TV show), I assume it’s “America.” If I hear it in the UK (or in a British movie or show), I assume it’s “God Save the Queen.” [/QUOTE] Am I the only one who thought of the Sex Pistols’ version first? Anyways, about [sub]mumble[/sub] years ago I had a very cool high tech Casio digital watch that played three happy little tunes: Clementine, Dixie, and Greensleeves. That’s what it said in the manual, and so that’s the name of the song. Yep. ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/77 "2007-06-15T14:40:28Z")
[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher] * * * Nobody really knows what “La Cucaracha” is about but one thing’s for sure, [it’s not literally about cockroaches](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/010727.html). [/QUOTE] Huh. I missed that column. Thanks for the link. Interesting that one verse of _La Cucaracha_ talks about a cockroach who hasn’t any marijuana (a roach without a roach, one could say). A while back there was a discussion on these boards about how ice cream trucks could make enough money to stay in business. Some folks averred that some trucks sold drugs on the side. Hmmmm. Mebbe I should report the _Cucaracha_ truck to the narcs. ---
**Author:** ![Flutterby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Flutterby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flutterby)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/78 "2007-06-15T16:06:18Z")
Like fachverwirrt, it depends on context. If there are no words, most of the year I assume it’s Greensleeves and around Christmas I assume What Child Is This. I’ve done this since I was a child, and it wasn’t until recently that I even noticed it was the same melody. (It was pointed out to me when I was playing What Child at my aunt’s on their piano, and she told me that Greensleeves sounded very nice..). [QUOTE=FatBaldGuy] Since I know the words to What Child Is This, and I don’t know the words to Greensleeves, the Christmas carol always runs through my head when I hear the tune, although I recognize it by either name. On a slightly related hijack, when you hear the melody only for a certain tune popular with chidren, do you immediately think of[ul] [li]Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star[/li][li]The Alphabet Song[/li][li]Baa, Baa Black Sheep[/li][/ul] Or did you even realize that they were all the same tune? [/QUOTE] I didn’t realize they were all the same tune until this thread. I knew about Twinkle Twinkle and Alphabet Song, because someone once complained that most people sing Alphabet Song wrong and explained it was the same as Twinkle Twinkle. Baa, Baa Black Sheep is a new one on me. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/79 "2007-06-15T16:11:51Z")
[QUOTE=Flutterby] I didn’t realize they were all the same tune until this thread. I knew about Twinkle Twinkle and Alphabet Song, because someone once complained that most people sing Alphabet Song wrong and explained it was the same as Twinkle Twinkle. Baa, Baa Black Sheep is a new one on me. [/QUOTE] What is it that most people get wrong about the Alphabet Song? ---
**Author:** ![Aholibah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Aholibah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aholibah)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2007, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960/80 "2007-06-15T16:19:02Z")
[QUOTE=MaxTheVool] Greenfleeves. That’s a rather unlikely title… for a fong? [/QUOTE] We’re nationalizing the monasteries. But if they offer you one, don’t take it! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greensleeves-what-child-is-this/407960.md?page=5)