# Greer gets death threats and kicked out of his church. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 27, 2005, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greer-gets-death-threats-and-kicked-out-of-his-church/296409 "2005-03-27T00:17:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greer-gets-death-threats-and-kicked-out-of-his-church/296409/221 "2005-03-30T04:27:09Z")
But cutting the capital gains tax is _not_ rendering unto Caesar–quite the opposite in fact. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greer-gets-death-threats-and-kicked-out-of-his-church/296409/222 "2005-03-30T04:28:14Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Right. Idiot it is, then. Comprehension impaired then. > [@SolGrundy](#): > > And Homebrew, you’re slipping. You’ve been so busy with the personal attacks that you actually made a post that doesn’t complain how the church is threatening gay marriage. How are people going to recognize the true enemy unless you keep telling them about it? Are you seriously accusing me of being a one-trick pony? Getting laid doesn’t mean you have to always side with the doofus.\* You’ll note that the **gobearfriend** admonished him. Perhaps you should realize that affection doesn’t require complete agreement. \*again, for **Miller** ’s sake, that was meant as an insult. ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greer-gets-death-threats-and-kicked-out-of-his-church/296409/223 "2005-03-30T04:33:05Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > Are you seriously accusing me of being a one-trick pony? Getting laid doesn’t mean you have to always side with the doofus.\* You’ll note that the **gobearfriend** admonished him. Perhaps you should realize that affection doesn’t require complete agreement. > \*again, for **Miller** ’s sake, that was meant as an insult. **SolGrundy** could just agree with **Miller** for the sake of the arguments, not just due to interpersonal familiarity. I’ve agreed with things **Miller** has said, and I’ve never even laid eyes on the man. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greer-gets-death-threats-and-kicked-out-of-his-church/296409/224 "2005-03-30T04:39:19Z")
Would you suggest I’m a one-trick pony, too? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greer-gets-death-threats-and-kicked-out-of-his-church/296409/225 "2005-03-30T04:46:30Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > Would you suggest I’m a one-trick pony, too? I’d suggest that gives you far too much credit. ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greer-gets-death-threats-and-kicked-out-of-his-church/296409/226 "2005-03-30T04:46:43Z")
Not particularly. I’ve found few real one-trick ponies though, and while you might appear to focus quite a bit on gay issues, it isn’t one-trick ponyism to me. Of course, it might appear like that to someone else. Just because I’ve agreed with someone on something before doesn’t mean I agree with every word they say. Rare is the person on these boards with whom I haven’t agreed on something or other. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greer-gets-death-threats-and-kicked-out-of-his-church/296409/227 "2005-03-30T04:47:20Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Om the subject of the OP, is it clear whether Judge Greer has been asked to leave the entire Baptist community, or merely the congregation he has been associated with? Not that I’m in support of his pastor being an asshat, but I’m curious to know how widespread and well-supported the shunning he’s received actually is. Because Baptists do not have anything equivalent to Bishops, etc. and because they claim to hold the idea of the individual in understanding and following God’s word as stated in the BF&M, it seems that Judge Greer would be free to go and join with any congregation that would have him. However, from what I was taught in Baptist Sunday School, I would question whether the pastor has the authority to kick him out of the church on his own say so to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greer-gets-death-threats-and-kicked-out-of-his-church/296409/228 "2005-03-30T04:47:27Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > And you have 24 hours from the present (10:30 EST 3/29/05) to clarify the second paragraph in your post, before I suggest that you intentionally and maliciously egregiously misrepresent the beliefs of me, **Siege, Tris, RT, Baker** and a wide collection of other people in a Pit thread devoted to your very own self. 2[sup]nd[/sup] of which post? What hellfire have I rained upon myself this time? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greer-gets-death-threats-and-kicked-out-of-his-church/296409/229 "2005-03-30T04:51:08Z")
> [@Kolak of Twilo](#): > > Because Baptists do not have anything equivalent to Bishops, etc. and because they claim to hold the idea of the individual in understanding and following God’s word as stated in the BF&M, it seems that Judge Greer would be free to go and join with any congregation that would have him. However, from what I was taught in Baptist Sunday School, I would question whether the pastor has the authority to kick him out of the church on his own say so to begin with. Good luck getting a bunch of Southern Baptists to agree on the BF&M! You’d probably end up with a few 1963 purists and such. 😛 (Not that I mind; I much prefer the 1963 BF&M, but I also no longer consider myself Baptist.) ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greer-gets-death-threats-and-kicked-out-of-his-church/296409/230 "2005-03-30T05:01:02Z")
> [@lel](#): > > Good luck getting a bunch of Southern Baptists to agree on the BF&M! You’d probably end up with a few 1963 purists and such. 😛 (Not that I mind; I much prefer the 1963 BF&M, but I also no longer consider myself Baptist.) I understand exactly what you are saying. Old joke: If you ask 100 Baptists what they believe you’ll get 100 different answers. I don’t consider myself Baptist anymore either. Mostly because they seem to have forgotten their history and what that stood for. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greer-gets-death-threats-and-kicked-out-of-his-church/296409/231 "2005-03-30T05:11:41Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > You may well be right, and I for one would be very happy to see **Duffer** say that is what he did in fact mean. Essentially that’s what I meant. The main point was challenging someone whom doesn’t believe in Christ as the Savior, yet tries to cite Him in trying to tell Christians what His teachings mean and how we should follow Him. Then backs away by saying he sees Jesus as a philosopher, and that somehow excuses his animosity towards anyone that follows His teachings. I ain’t perfect folks. I’ll never be anywhere near the man Jesus was, but I do know that I’ve grown enough in life to not spread the hate blanket over a group of people based on the broadest commonality I can find. I see hating Christians based on Benny Hinn-types akin to hating gays for same-sex pedophilia. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greer-gets-death-threats-and-kicked-out-of-his-church/296409/232 "2005-03-30T05:17:59Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > I see hating Christians based on Benny Hinn-types akin to hating gays for same-sex pedophilia. I’ll probably regret this but…not such a great analogy **duffer**. Few same-sex pedophiles would identify themselves as gay. But most Benny Hinn-types would identify themselves as Christians. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greer-gets-death-threats-and-kicked-out-of-his-church/296409/233 "2005-03-30T05:25:31Z")
> [@Kolak of Twilo](#): > > I’ll probably regret this but…not such a great analogy **duffer**. Few same-sex pedophiles would identify themselves as gay. But most Benny Hinn-types would identify themselves as Christians. Why would you regret it? It probably wasn’t the best analogy (now I have to try to find stats). It’s late, I’m turning in before I do any more damage. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greer-gets-death-threats-and-kicked-out-of-his-church/296409/234 "2005-03-30T05:28:41Z")
OK, I have had it with your lies, **Duffer** : Here’s my first response to your request for a cite of “left-wing” Christians: > [@](#): > > I’d say Jesus himself would qualify, but how about Sojourners, the Quakers, and groups within the mainline churches. Sr. Helen Prejean and Martin Sheen are examples of the Catholic left. In general, the Christian left emphasizes social justice instead of personal righteous, compassion over condemnation. **Siege** and **Polycarp** both fall into the leftish side of their church. Here’s my response after you indicated that you didn’t understand the first post: > [@](#): > > What does my belief have to do with anything? You asked for cites of “left-wing” Christianity, and I offered the example of its founder, who told his followers to feed the hungry and clothe the naked, who forgave sinners and dined with the dregs of society. Jesus said to love another, yet he oddly forgot to mention cutting the capital gains tax. > > Is Duffer saying that a non-believer may not discuss a religion’s tenets? Or that one must believe in the veracity of its claims to discuss those claims? I can talk about The Lord of the Rings quite ably, yet I assure you I do not believe in the existence of orcs. Now point to where I A. try to tell Christians what His teachings mean B.back away by saying I see Jesus as a philosopher C. that somehow excuses [my] animosity towards anyone that follows His teachings. (which I have repeatedly told you is not so, yet you keep repeating) Do it! You are a stupid, stupid man, or you are a deliberate liar, I can’t tell. I have had enough of being lied about, when the damn responses to your questions on are the same damn page! I have tried hard to be nice, but contrary to what some other people wish to believe, I am nobody’s motherfucking martyr! You want to know why certain segment’s of the faithful exasperate me, well here’s exhibit A! ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greer-gets-death-threats-and-kicked-out-of-his-church/296409/235 "2005-03-30T06:34:11Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > OK, I have had it with your lies, **Duffer** : > [@](#): > > You are a stupid, stupid man, or you are a deliberate liar, I can’t tell. So, how’s that “kinder gentler **gobear** ” thing workin’ out? 🙂 Tris ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greer-gets-death-threats-and-kicked-out-of-his-church/296409/236 "2005-03-30T06:54:10Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > Are you seriously accusing me of being a one-trick pony? Getting laid doesn’t mean you have to always side with the doofus.\* You’ll note that the **gobearfriend** admonished him. Perhaps you should realize that affection doesn’t require complete agreement. I’m accusing you of being a comically irrelevant twat. I’m sketchy on what this whole thread was supposed to be about before I got summoned into it, but I was under the impression it was about Christianity or churches or some such. But apparently, it’s really all about sexual orientation: > [@Homebrew](#): > > You know, Miller, ever since you announced that you are bi, you’ve been a sanctimonious bitch, especially here in the Pit and particularly towards gay folks who disagree with you. Quit trying to prove whatever it is you’re trying to prove. Everyone knows we don’t march in lockstep, so you don’t have to make a point of demonstrating it. So at this point I can only assume that you’re trying to use excessive irony to bend the forces of space and time. Saying that homos don’t all march in lockstep, while simultaneously acting like some gay Dr. Zaius and admonishing “Fag shall not attack fag!” Perhaps you should realize that there are a hell of a lot more important things than sexual orientation, that I’d recognize you for a total dickweed even if I were single, and that when adults discuss things, they respond to what they say instead of resorting to gossip about the other person’s personal life. I’m sure **Metacom** would love to see a “prize-fight,” and **duffer** for some reason gets off on seeing the SDMB as a big pink Thunderdome and watching the gays squabbling, but you know, some of us can recognize the whole thing as juvenile and tiresome. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greer-gets-death-threats-and-kicked-out-of-his-church/296409/237 "2005-03-30T07:12:00Z")
> [@F. U. Shakespeare](#): > > [ > While this does _not_ equate to a more lockstep religious population, it opens up the possibility. E.g., **CJ** and **Polycarp** are proof that one can be both very religious and knowledgeable and flexible. But people like them may be rarer now than in the past. I’ll have to look for that book in my library. And I agree, CJ and Poly are highly intelligent, thoughtful people, and people like that are rarer now then they were in the past. But I think also people like the simple, one sentence, answer to all their woes, and hate thinking things through. I think it is from the destruction of the school system in so much of the country, myself. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greer-gets-death-threats-and-kicked-out-of-his-church/296409/238 "2005-03-30T07:36:12Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I may be wrong, here, but isn’t Greer’s priest himself making this a public issue? If he’d approached Greer privately and said he was no longer welcome in his parish, that would be one thing, but if he does it via press conference, it seems to me that he is inviting comments from the public at large. To get back to the OP 🙂 public or private doesn’t concern me. Nor does whether the minister has the authority to kick Greer out. It is the misunderstanding of the role of a public servant. Greer’s job is to interpret the law, no matter what his beliefs are. Not withstanding they will affect his findings, he is not at liberty to misrule in an open and shut case like this one because his minister or even his personal religious beliefs tell him so. That is downright unAmerican. Kerry’s answer in the debate about abortion actually was quite good. How can we get these people to respect the church and state boundary is the real question. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greer-gets-death-threats-and-kicked-out-of-his-church/296409/239 "2005-03-30T09:09:50Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Greer’s job is to interpret the law, no matter what his beliefs are. Not withstanding they will affect his findings, he is not at liberty to misrule in an open and shut case like this one because his minister or even his personal religious beliefs tell him so. That is downright unAmerican. …and the way I was instructed, _ **downright unBaptist.** _ I know Baptist is a kinda dirty word, but what I was always taught we stood for as opposed to what _they_ are now are two very different things. Look at[Roger Williams](http://www.rogerwilliams.org/biography.htm). He is the person that was always held up to me as a child in the SBC as being the first person to establish the Baptist ideal in America. Look at what he stood for and look at how far off the mark these people are… ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greer-gets-death-threats-and-kicked-out-of-his-church/296409/240 "2005-03-30T09:19:27Z")
So this is a better story of [Roger Williams and Baptists](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Williams_(theologian)). I thought the previous post had this information but I was wrong. Oh well… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greer-gets-death-threats-and-kicked-out-of-his-church/296409.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greer-gets-death-threats-and-kicked-out-of-his-church/296409.md?page=13)