# Gregggate. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 13, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gregggate/485693 "2009-02-13T15:45:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gregggate/485693/21 "2009-02-13T17:23:42Z")
**Shodan** and **jayjay** , there already is a thread full of party-line sniping. If that’s what you’re into, please go there. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gregggate/485693/22 "2009-02-13T17:35:13Z")
> [@furt](#): > > **Shodan** and **jayjay** , there already is a thread full of party-line sniping. If that’s what you’re into, please go there. Sorry. I lost sight of the actual purpose of this thread. For what it’s worth, I don’t think that Gregg was aiming to embarrass the administration. I DID think that, when it looked like there was deliberately no coordination on the withdrawal and Gregg had ambushed them with his surprise presser. But now it looks like it actually was discussed, so I’m off that theory. I DO think it was more that Gregg was “got to” by his party, both national and state. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gregggate/485693/23 "2009-02-13T17:38:34Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > Because it appears to be a calculated “mistake” based on the fact that he had to know in advance that his worldview was different enough from Obama’s that it was going to be difficult to reconcile working for an administration to which you are politically diametrically opposed. And yet he wants us to believe that after so many years of political experience, he was simply blinded by the wonderful opportunity to serve this fine administration and he didn’t consider that? I would think it’s safe to assume he’s not stupid, so it’s got to be calculated. What else would it be? > [@gonzomax](#): > > His differing views are the reason he was offered the position. Obama said he would include repubs to get their input in crafting policy. If Gregg says he quit because he did not agree with the dems, I am shocked he could not figure that out earlier. Some decision take time to evaluate, and changing one’s mind is not a crime against humanity. Statements like these indicate a need to find sinister motives everywhere. The guy changed his mind. That’s all that happened. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gregggate/485693/24 "2009-02-13T17:38:35Z")
It seems to me it’s difficult to assess who’s in the wrong here. It’s possible that Obama (or his people) pulled the rug out from under Gregg. It’s also possible that Gregg made some outrageous demand. Or that he was vetted and a skeleton was discovered in his closet. People who flame Gregg (or Obama) over this are only displaying their own partisanship, ISTM. They are projecting their own bias onto a blank screen. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gregggate/485693/25 "2009-02-13T17:42:20Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > They are projecting their own bias onto a blank screen. Realize that I say this as an Obama supporter and a registered Democrat, but I think that’s largely what a lot of people on the more leftward side of the Democratic party have done with Obama in general. I’m guilty of a little of that, too, but at the same time I realized that he was more a pragmatic than a progressive. He may WANT to do everything the way the folks at Daily Kos want him to do it, but he realizes that he can’t. Period. If he tried, he’d have not only the Republicans, but a good half of the Democratic caucus in both houses forming a living wall between him and his goals. I’ve actually been more shocked and saddened by a lot of the criticism from the left against him than I have from the right. ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gregggate/485693/26 "2009-02-13T17:44:20Z")
Fair 'nuff. Thanks for the info about the possible leak, **furt** and **Jophiel** ; I hadn’t seen or thought of that possibility. With that, as far as I can tell, it pretty much breaks down like this: [ul] [li]Gregg thought he wanted the job[/li][li]Decided he didn’t want it after all[/li][li]Announced it when he did so he’d have some control over the message[/li][li]Isn’t doing it to be self-serving since he doesn’t intend to run for re-election[/li][/ul] Right? I do think it’s sad that he didn’t realize he couldn’t accept the job earlier. I don’t really think he has malicious reasons – it’s a huge job during very difficult times, and is for an administration that isn’t his party. I’d really like to see a truly bipartisan cabinet, and I think Obama has made good-faith efforts toward that end. I guess I just don’t see this as making either party look particularly bad. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gregggate/485693/27 "2009-02-13T19:30:29Z")
I’m guessing something has happened to change his mind about his prospects for re-election, since he was on record as saying, previously, that he intended to run. A good guess would be that said unknown reason prompted his decision to bail on Obama’s cabinet, but it would only be a guess. So, there’s something pretty substantial that we simply don’t know, and he is not eager to have us know. My guess? Something along the lines of a dead hooker/live boy sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gregggate/485693/28 "2009-02-13T19:35:30Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Most, of course, are ignoring that Greg definitely had no problems until after Obama announced his plan to administer the census from the White House. This is probably simple reaction to that, and nothing more. :rolleyes: [Oh, please.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=505967) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gregggate/485693/29 "2009-02-13T19:46:11Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I’m guessing something has happened to change his mind about his prospects for re-election Could be just the bluing of NH. He’d be in trouble in 2010 anyway. So add Gregg to the list of Bond, Martinez, Brownback, Voinovich, Hutchison, and probably Bunning among the “permanent majority” Senators who won’t be around in 2011. > [@](#): > > My guess? Something along the lines of a dead hooker/live boy sort of thing. Or unpaid taxes. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gregggate/485693/30 "2009-02-13T20:02:30Z")
> [@furt](#): > > You’re just asserting the topic of the thread – I don’t think it appears to be any such thing. Well, I can accept that your perspective differs from mine. > [@](#): > > I have no idea what he “had to know” or even what he did know. Neither do you. Well, I’m looking at it from a common sense point-of-view. If I were a Democrat asked to serve in the Bush WH, it would give me considerable pause. I’m not sure I’d feel all that comfortable in that situation, either, whether I respected Bush or not. But it wouldn’t come as a surprise to me once I’d accepted his nomination. I probably would have given it considerable enough thought to have declined, knowing it would likely be problematic. I’m not sure why that wasn’t readily apparent to Gregg. It doesn’t look good for someone that seems to have some political savvy, though. I suppose I could be wrong. Maybe I’m injecting common sense and political savvy that isn’t there. > [@](#): > > Neither do either of us know any of the specifics of what was said between either party on how much latitude he’s be given to shape policy, publicly differ from the administration, or what responsibilities he’d have. I will grant you this. But he seems to have looked at it as a tremendous opportunity, or so he tells us in his press conference. Just not one that he could personally feel effective in taking. After the fact. Was something said behind closed doors? I don’t know. He doesn’t say either, nor does the Administration, so it’s safe to conclude that all he wants us to is know that he wasn’t thinking too critically when he initially said yes. > [@](#): > > I dunno … a mistake? Smart people do make them. That’s a pretty huge mistake, I must say, if it is to believed, which is somewhat difficult given his seeming intelligence and reputation as a three-term senator. A mistake like that would be amateurish. It sort of seems as if he’s planned out his political career without such indecisive bumps in the road…up until now. The biggest career move of his life and he missteps because he didn’t give it enough thought, as he says? Sorry. Skeptical. > [@](#): > > I once applied for a better-paying job, interviewed, and was hired … then backed out before starting because I realized that, upon reflection of somethings discussed in the interview, I’d hate the job and be miserable, even though the money was good. Was this a calculated effort to screw the company on my part? You were offered a position and then you declined or were you offered a position, accepted it, and then as you were introduced to shareholders to be vetted and confirmed, you declined in not one, but two, announcements to the public? Were you aware or might it have occurred to you that stepping down in this manner at that time might cause the company some grief and unnecessary delays as they had to shop for another candidate? Just how similar was your experience to Gregg’s? > [@](#): > > If the shoe don’t fit, don’t put it on. I wasn’t thinking of you, which is why I didn’t name you. If you think that’s not an apt description of others in that thread, we’ll have to agree to disagree. Ok, fair enough. I just assumed from what you posted that you’d given up in the other thread because there was no discussion of value. I must have been mistaken. Anyway, thank you for taking the time to respond to my comments. > [@](#): > > Because they’re jackasses. Heh. _whistles nonchalantly_ Upon preview, I see I have some catching up to do. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gregggate/485693/31 "2009-02-13T20:24:03Z")
Honestly, for once I think a politicians reason for withdrawing from a post are more or less what he said they were. He seemed pretty honestly apologetic and embarrassed, I think he just realized at the last minute that the job wasn’t what he wanted to spend the next four years doing, for reasons he should have forseen earlier but for whatever reason thought he could deal with until recently, and so decided to bail. I’m sure many dopers have had last minute cold feet in similar situations, and none of the other explanations make a lot of sense. I feel bad for the woman who was going to get his senate seat, kinda sucks to start making plans to move to DC for two years and then have the rug pulled out from under you. I hope she got a pretty good personal apology. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gregggate/485693/32 "2009-02-13T20:31:14Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > ETA: I forgot to add, if it doesn’t make Obama look bad, why are so many conservatives anxious to crow there goes Obama, screwing up again? It wouldn’t be the first time. In the absence of negative optics, some can always be manufactured. OH MY GOD HE ATE JELLY BEANS, IT’S A SCANDAL, if repeated sufficiently often with sufficient reinforcement from the usual gang, can actually cause jelly beans to turn into a scandal. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gregggate/485693/33 "2009-02-13T22:14:45Z")
> [@Brown Eyed Girl](#): > > ETA: I forgot to add, if it doesn’t make Obama look bad, why are so many conservatives anxious to crow there goes Obama, screwing up again? Well, conservatives are not the only ones saying Obama [screwed up](http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/02/03/1779622.aspx). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gregggate/485693/34 "2009-02-13T22:38:08Z")
Let me just say a thank you to **furt** for attempting to keep the partisan sniping and stupidity out of this thread. Too bad there are posters dead set on engaging in both of those. As to the OP, I don’t think Gregg’s resignation was some kind of “nefarious plot” to make Obama look bad. I do think there are some facts we don’t know (and, to be honest, his new decision not to run for re-election raises red flags for me), but I think Gregg’s phrasing was fine. Seems like a bad situation handled as best as it could. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gregggate/485693/35 "2009-02-13T23:26:45Z")
Obama wanted to hire a Republican for the job of Commerce Secretary and then says he’s going to cut his nuts off in a politcal power grab of the census. That’s not reaching across the aisle, that’s Chicago politics at it’s worst. Senator Gregg would have been Republican window dressing for a corrupt Democratic census. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gregggate/485693/36 "2009-02-13T23:37:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Senator Gregg would have been Republican window dressing for a corrupt Democratic census. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gregggate/485693/37 "2009-02-13T23:48:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Well, conservatives are not the only ones saying Obama [screwed up](http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/02/03/1779622.aspx). Interestingly, that article has nothing to do with my comment seeing as how it pre-dates the Gregg affair, which is specifically what I was referring to. Go check the other thread for conservatives gloating over Gregg’s departure. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gregggate/485693/38 "2009-02-14T00:02:28Z")
i was boggled by why sen. gregg wanted the job, he is on record for thinking that there shouldn’t be a commerce department. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gregggate/485693/39 "2009-02-14T00:04:17Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Cite? You need a cite that Senator Gregg didn’t want to be a stooge? ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gregggate/485693/40 "2009-02-14T00:05:54Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You need a cite that Senator Gregg didn’t want to be a stooge? No, I want a cite that the Census was going to be corrupt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gregggate/485693.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gregggate/485693.md?page=3)