# Grenfell Tower fire (London) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 14, 2017, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926 "2017-06-14T05:45:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/1 "2017-06-14T05:45:58Z")
This could be _really_ bad. > **[Met confirms 17 dead with further fatalities expected from Grenfell blaze –...](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2017/jun/14/grenfell-tower-major-fire-london-apartment-block-white-city-latimer-road)** > > Follow the latest updates after a huge fire engulfs Grenfell Tower in Latimer Road, near Notting Hill, in West London > **[London fire: Six killed as Grenfell Tower engulfed](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-40269625)** > > The death toll is expected to rise, say police, as fire crews continue to tackle the blaze in west London. > **[12 dead, toll expected to rise after inferno rips through London tower block](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-14/deaths-confirmed-in-24-storey-grenfell-tower-fire/8617158)** > > Twelve people are dead and the toll is expected to rise after a giant fire destroyed a 24-storey London apartment block, with reports witnesses heard people crying for help and jumping from windows as the building was engulfed in flames. [http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/grenfell-tower-fire-live-updates-10619185](http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/grenfell-tower-fire-live-updates-10619185) No fire alarms unless a resident installed one. No coordination of rescue services, of which there are 100s of firefighters and EMTs. 100s homeless with no possessions. 100s more may be trapped or dead on upper floors. This could be really _really_ bad. ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/2 "2017-06-14T05:56:51Z")
Yes; BBC is just running this story currently. One eye-witness heard tell of an exploding fridge starting the fire. A local councillor just said that the building has recently passed a fire safety check, having just been refurbished… I wonder if the new outer cladding on the block was that trendy timber look which has been popular for the past few years - I imagine that wouldn’t help. I think the death toll here is likely to dwarf the recent terrorist incidents. It appears the whole block was engulfed with flame in a short time. Horrendous. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/3 "2017-06-14T05:57:13Z")
I’ve been watching news video showing streams of water from fire hoses barely reaching halfway up the building. They’ll have to get inside this thing to fight the fire. Oh so many years ago I was at the scene of a high rise nursing home fire which resulted in 16 deaths. That was horrific. This fire in London is in a building that has about 124 units, with a reasonable estimate of about 400-500 occupants, most of whom would have been sleeping at the time the fire broke out. I am fearful that this fire may result in ten times the number of deaths I saw that cold December night. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/4 "2017-06-14T07:31:25Z")
The building codes for hi-rises were changed to prevent fires like this back in the 1960’s. Better fire detection alarms, automatic fire retardant systems, and escape planning. It’s been a long time since I saw a hi-rises fire this bad. Excluding 9/11, a fire this bad in a hi-rise shouldn’t happen. There’s too much planning to prevent fires. They use treated building materials, put in sensors, water sprinklers. A lot of design and emergency planning goes into a hi-rise. This building was recently renovated and should have the latest systems. Something about this fire doesn’t seem right. Either the building didn’t have the correct fire systems or perhaps they were tampered with. ---
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/5 "2017-06-14T07:44:55Z")
Watching the images it would be a miracle if the number of fatalities is not in three figures. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/6 "2017-06-14T07:47:46Z")
The building may collapse. > **[London fire: Six killed as Grenfell Tower engulfed](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-40269625)** > > The death toll is expected to rise, say police, as fire crews continue to tackle the blaze in west London. The steel in these buildings is rated to withstand intense fires. The catastrophic failure of the steel frame was a big part of the Twin Towers investigation. I’m afraid there will be a lot of fatalities. > [@](#): > > London Fire Commissioner Dany Cotton said there had been “a number of fatalities” but she could not say how many because of the “size and complexity” of the building. > > This is an unprecedented incident," she told reporters.“In my 29 years of being a firefighter, I have never ever seen anything of this scale.” > > She said the cause was not yet known. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/7 "2017-06-14T08:04:46Z")
No doubt there will be a terrible toll for this. It seems so shocking because we simply don’t see high-rise fires on this scale anymore. There has been a catastrophic failure of safety systems here or deliberate intervention of some kind. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/8 "2017-06-14T08:07:59Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The building codes for hi-rises were changed to prevent fires like this back in the 1960’s. Better fire detection alarms, automatic fire retardant systems, and escape planning. > > It’s been a long time since I saw a hi-rises fire this bad. Excluding 9/11, a fire this bad in a hi-rise shouldn’t happen. There’s too much planning to prevent fires. They use treated building materials, put in sensors, water sprinklers. A lot of design and emergency planning goes into a hi-rise. > > This building was recently renovated and should have the latest systems. > > Something about this fire doesn’t seem right. Either the building didn’t have the correct fire systems or perhaps they were tampered with. The people who run it have apparently been accused of safety violations for some time, complete with predictions of a catastrophic fire like this. Apparent there was no alarm system, no working sprinklers, highly flammable cladding, and only one stairway (which had a gas line running along it). ---
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/9 "2017-06-14T08:17:39Z")
Video of the fire from the early hours clearly show sheets of fire extending several stories up the outside of the tower. Surely the newly installed cladding must be the number one suspect in how the fire spread so quickly. Just watching some live interviews with residents who managed to escape. This is very harrowing and I have tears in my eyes right now. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/10 "2017-06-14T08:19:48Z")
Incredible series of pictures. > **[17 confirmed dead in West London tower block inferno](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4601902/Huge-inferno-West-London-tower-block.html)** > > 12 people are known to have died after fire engulfed Grenfell Tower in White City at 1am today but Scotland Yard says the death toll is expected to rise significantly. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/11 "2017-06-14T08:26:04Z")
Apparently the fire hazards were well known and had been constantly complained about by residents. [http://wp.me/p2tuPm-2re](http://wp.me/p2tuPm-2re) “The Grenfell Action Group predict that it won’t be long before the words of this blog come back to haunt the KCTMO management and we will do everything in our power to ensure that those in authority know how long and how appallingly our landlord has ignored their responsibility to ensure the heath and safety of their tenants and leaseholders. They can’t say that they haven’t been warned!” ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/12 "2017-06-14T08:28:07Z")
> [@ticker](#): > > Video of the fire from the early hours clearly show sheets of fire extending several stories up the outside of the tower. Surely the newly installed cladding must be the number one suspect in how the fire spread so quickly. [Apparently](https://www.thestar.com/business/2016/01/19/how-a-common-building-material-turned-a-dubai-hotel-fire-into-an-inferno.html) it’s a known problem. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/13 "2017-06-14T08:36:29Z")
I hope PM May doesn’t own a violin. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/14 "2017-06-14T08:42:02Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > [Apparently](https://www.thestar.com/business/2016/01/19/how-a-common-building-material-turned-a-dubai-hotel-fire-into-an-inferno.html) it’s a known problem. Who the hell clads a building with a flammable material? And _in the Middle East?_ ---
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/15 "2017-06-14T08:53:17Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I hope PM May doesn’t own a violin. What does this mean, and how does it relate to the likely death of sleeping families? ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/16 "2017-06-14T08:57:02Z")
I’m guessing it’s a comparison between Nero, who supposedly fiddled while Rome burned, and the PMs current political problems. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/17 "2017-06-14T08:57:39Z")
Nero fiddled while Rome burned. There will be political repercussions for allowing a high-rise to have non functioning fire safety systems. Heck, these systems are usually redundant. If one fails, then there’s a backup system. . A fire is the most devastating event that can trap people in a high-rise. Deaths used to be common a hundred years ago. That’s when engineers studied the problem and made changes. Developed all the modern fire safety systems we depend on today. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/18 "2017-06-14T09:05:26Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Who the hell clads a building with a flammable material? And _in the Middle East?_ Someone who only cares that the flammable stuff is cheap, and doesn’t worry about the consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/19 "2017-06-14T09:10:19Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Who the hell clads a building with a flammable material? And _in the Middle East?_ > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Someone who only cares that the flammable stuff is cheap, and doesn’t worry about the consequences. Y’all are whooshing, right? (Because this is London, is why I’m asking.) Carry on. ETA: You probably are. It’s late. Time to log off. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2017, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/20 "2017-06-14T09:14:12Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Y’all are whooshing, right? (Because this is London, is why I’m asking.) Carry on. > ETA: You probably are. It’s late. Time to log off. The link I was responding to was about a similar fire in a tower in Dubai. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926.md?page=2)