# Grenfell Tower fire (London) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 14, 2017, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926 "2017-06-14T05:45:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2017, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/221 "2017-06-18T16:01:59Z")
It’s possibly worth pointing out that you don’t have to be _rich_ rich to pay full council tax - just be in full-time employment, basically. As far as I can tell, Kensington is the only council in the UK that does the rebate thing. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2017, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/222 "2017-06-18T16:10:06Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I’m sorry, what? Are you outright saying rich residents got unspent taxes rebated to them from the same group crying too poor for safety measures and the better cladding where the poorer people lived? > > Sorry, but that makes so little sense. How can they both have unspent tax money AND be unable to provide money for basic safety measures, in the same district? How on earth can they be handing rebates to some, while at the same time, they are telling others, ‘There’s no money for that safety stuff!’? Seriously? > > How many people are on the council? A handful? A largish group? Aren’t there any with sense? Or integrity? Or the balls to whistleblow? Don’t these councils get any oversight! You’d think since they enjoy protection from liability there’d be something in place. > > It’s shocking that you reveal this so calmly like it’s no big deal, happens all the time. It’s a little bit stunning to people, who till now, were unaware of just how these things actually work in England. It’s easy to just assume codes are as strict and taken as seriously, as in other places. It’s quite eye opening, I must say. All that is true, except that I’m not calm about it. My disgust is deep, but if I let it run rampant outside the Pit my posts could get reported. I’m reading about this from different repports and news sites from the UK; our US press is barely poking at it and certainly isn’t focusing on the income inequality angle of it. We have more than enough examples of our own to point out; it does, in fact, happen all the time here. And no matter what the people at large want, their representatives are either in the pocket of lobbyists and interests or powerless by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/223 "2017-06-18T16:28:59Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > All that is true, except that I’m not calm about it. My disgust is deep, but if I let it run rampant outside the Pit my posts could get reported. Yeah, agreed. Outside observers shouldn’t mistake the calm discussion here and elsewhere for “acceptance”. People are angry, really deeply quietly angry, about this. This is a dangerous moment for the UK body politic, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2017, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/224 "2017-06-18T16:35:03Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > He’s lying. He’s been [contradicted](http://www.itv.com/news/2017-06-18/cladding-used-on-grenfell-tower-is-banned-in-the-uk-says-hammond/) by the manufacturer: > [@](#): > > Philip Hammond told BBC One’s Andrew Marr Show: “My understanding is the cladding in question, this cladding which is banned in Europe and the US, is also banned here.” > > The cladding panels added to the tower last year are said to be a product called Reynobond PE - a flammable hard-plastic core coated with aluminium. > > CEP Architectural Facades, a company that fabricated the rainscreen panels and windows for Harley Facades Ltd, the firm that was subcontracted to install cladding to the tower block, and replace its windows rejected the Chancellor’s comments. > > John Cowley, managing director of CEP, which is owned by Omnis, said: “Reynobond PE is not banned in the UK.” > > “Current building regulations allow its use in both low-rise and high-rise structures,” Mr Cowley added. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/225 "2017-06-18T16:47:22Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > We have more than enough examples of our own to point out; it does, in fact, happen all the time here. And no matter what the people at large want, their representatives are either in the pocket of lobbyists and interests or powerless by comparison. Not to mention the “cut regulation” memes currently in government. Recent US examples: the lead poisoning of Flint, Michigan because those responsible opted for unsafe but cheaper water, and whatever genius thought building a subdivision on the former site of lead smelter in East Chicago, Indiana that has also resulted in poisoning people. _Of course_ that land in East Chicago was cheap to build on - no one in the know wanted to live there! The whole business with the local council opting for cheaper and unsafe cladding for the Grenfell Tower is just more of the same - cut costs, cut regulations, cut oversight, and fuck the poor. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2017, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/226 "2017-06-18T17:03:05Z")
True enough, but a big difference is that people are going to jail for Flint, and people will get millions in damages in the other cases. But here, it seems the body making these choices is protected from liability. I’m pretty sure nobody is going to jail. Sounds like the fire code is loose at best, (fire escapes not mandated, hose length unspecified, sprinklers/smoke detectors optional, gas line in the escape route NOT A VIOLATION!), and they self certify, so who’s to sue or send to jail? Although living with having made those choices isn’t going to be easy regardless. Ditto for the firemen who told them all to stay in their apartments. Those will be hard shoes to walk in, I should think. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/227 "2017-06-18T20:49:21Z")
Thanks for looking up the cladding lie, Quartz. Shitty that he’s trying to get away with lying. The fire brigade have released photos and a video of the inside of one of the flats (a flat whose occupants all survived). There’s just nothing left. These are not open plan flats, though they look it now - the internal walls have simply vanished. [Harrowing photos and footage show destruction of Grenfell Tower fire as police release first haunting pictures inside building - Mirror Online](https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/harrowing-photos-show-destruction-grenfell-10644605.amp) ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/228 "2017-06-19T00:02:04Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …being as delicate as possible: but it is very likely that entire families no longer exist. And I mean that literally. If, as suspected, there are over a hundred people unaccounted for, then what are people supposed to do, but continually check the hospitals and the refuge centres? Could you just sit at home, waiting for the phone to ring, if it were your family that were missing? As Lily Allen put it [today](http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/current-affairs/lily-allen-calls-for-updated-london-fire-death-toll-in-emotional-tv-interview/news-story/362f4d813d327c92f63eb818744259c7): > > ““I appreciate that, but these are families. When you have to identify a body, you have to report it to the next of kin. There are no next of kin.” > > I’m sure that the Salvation Army are doing all that they can. As are the Red Cross, the churches, the mosques, and all the other volunteer organizations. But this is an extraordinary situation. Nobody has experience in this. If anyone should be stepping up: it is the government organizations, and not the voluntary ones. For a long time, the Salvation Army was the group specifically tasked with matching missing people in disastors up to global proportions. Freeing the the civilian and militory authorities to do things like burying the dead and clearing the roads. The Salvation Army did this through two world wars and massive refugee crises. This situation is not “extrodinary” on that scale: they used to have procedures and institutional experience with events bigger and smaller than this. So I’m curious. Have they abdicated this area? Lost the skills? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/229 "2017-06-19T09:10:57Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > So I’m curious. Have they abdicated this area? Lost the skills? Are they still around in sufficient numbers? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/230 "2017-06-19T09:29:07Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Thanks for looking up the cladding lie, Quartz. Shitty that he’s trying to get away with lying. > > The fire brigade have released photos and a video of the inside of one of the flats (a flat whose occupants all survived). There’s just nothing left. These are not open plan flats, though they look it now - the internal walls have simply vanished. [Harrowing photos and footage show destruction of Grenfell Tower fire as police release first haunting pictures inside building - Mirror Online](https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/harrowing-photos-show-destruction-grenfell-10644605.amp) It looks as though the walls may have been internally lined with something - that pattern of protrusions on the wall in the first photo is, I think, blobs of construction adhesive onto which some sheet material had been glued. I wonder if this internal cladding (and the sheet material for the internal non-structural walls) was all made from something flammable such as MDF. I know plaster board can decompose in a fire, but it looks like the walls actually contributed to the fire here. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/231 "2017-06-19T10:43:31Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > For a long time, the Salvation Army was the group specifically tasked with matching missing people in disastors up to global proportions. Freeing the the civilian and militory authorities to do things like burying the dead and clearing the roads. The Salvation Army did this through two world wars and massive refugee crises. This situation is not “extrodinary” on that scale: they used to have procedures and institutional experience with events bigger and smaller than this. > > So I’m curious. Have they abdicated this area? Lost the skills? …who **tasked** them to do this? That should answer your question. This isn’t a disaster of global proportions. This is a highly localised disaster in the capital city of one of the most important cities in the world. The roads were clear the next day and respectfully “burying the dead” is something that is a process that will take weeks, maybe months. I’m sure the Salvation Army is probably involved in some way. But there is no need for them to take the lead here, and what happened here doesn’t say anything about the Salvation Army’s ability to do anything. And you miss exactly why you were hearing continuing reports of people looking for people, checking all the hospitals and all the refuge centres. In the day after the event: what was it you expected people to do? People were missing. You check the hospitals. You check the refugee centres. You check the churches. You check the mosques. You can’t find them. What do you do next? You check them all again. Because they are distraught and upset and they are living with the hope that maybe the person they were looking for was missed off a list, or just been rescued, or had been moved. What you are describing is simply normal behaviour, and the Sallies, the Red Cross, the Army, or the civilian authorities wouldn’t have changed anything. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/232 "2017-06-19T13:02:45Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > 1. It’s a typo, they mean ‘full council taxpayers’ - my guess is that means those paying a full(er?) amount of council taxes. They got a rebate of unspent taxes that remained due to the austerity measures which put that less expensive cladding up and skipped paying for a more comprehensive fire and smoke alarm system. > The rich get richer, the poor get poorer, that’s how it goes. And everybody knows. _It’s the same the whole world over It’s the poor wot gets the flame It’s the rich wot gets the rebates Isn’t it a bloomin’ shame…_ Meanwhile here’s a purported timeline of culpability from Facebook. Apply as many grains of salt as you like; I’ve double-checked some but not all statements: > [@Facebook](#): > > 2009 - Lakanal House tower block catches fire killing 6 people. The local authority is prosecuted for lapses in fire safety. A review is promised by the Labour government after pressure from the Fire Protection Association (FPA). > > 2010 - Building Regulations Act is published, including provisions for fire safety. Conservatives win election, a review is promised by the new government after more pressure from the FPA and warnings that the BR act does not go far enough. > > 2013 - Boris Johnson overrules the ruling body of the London Fire Brigade and uses legal action to inflict £29m in cuts. Closing 10 fire stations, cutting firefighters by 552, losing 14 fire engines and cutting minimum staffing levels from 5 to 4. By the time he steps down as Mayor of London he inflicts a further £100m in cuts on the fire service to £130m total and the Tories oversee a national loss of over 10,000 firefighters. Fire prevention measures carried out by the service drop by over 25%. [When challenged by a committee on fire safety on how cutting the fire service would not increase deaths, Boris replies “get stuffed”.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN3e-aYUusc) > > 2013 - [All Party Parliamentary Group on Fire Safety and Rescue produces a report strongly recommending installation of fire suppression systems and sprinklers in 4000 tower blocks throughout Britain](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40302745). The Grenfell residents action group publishes a report warning that their landlord is putting their safety at risk by restricting the access ways to their car park. They are ignored by their landlord. > > 2013 - 2016 [Conservative housing ministers sit on All Party report without action](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/grenfell-tower-fire-safety-rules-sprinklers-brandon-lewis-warn-house-building-social-housing-tory-a7790921.html), promising they are “looking at it”, including housing minister Gavin Barwell. > > 2016 - Conservatives vote against a Labour motion to make sure all landlords and housing associations ensure residences are fit for human occupation, including provisions for fire safety. The motion is denied by 312 votes to 219. 72 of the MP’s voting against are landlords. The Grenfell residents action group publish a report warning people will die in a fire before the landlord takes notice of their poor fire safety provisions. They are ignored by their landlord. Tenants were also [threatened with legal action](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-fire-london-dead-legal-action-campaign-fire-safety-mariem-elgwahry-nadia-choucair-a7795586.html?cmpid=facebook-post) for complaining, and Tory cuts to legal aid meant they couldn’t fight it in court. > > 2017 - Ex housing minister Gavin Barwell becomes Prime Minister Theresa May’s chief of staff. He never actions the All Party Parliamentary report recommendations. Nick Hurd, one of the 72 landlord MP’s who voted against making all rented properties fit for human habitation, is made Policing and Fire Minister on the day that Grenfell Tower is reduced to rubble with the deaths of at least 70 residents. A fire spreads through the building in 4 minutes. It has no fire suppression system or sprinklers. The stairwell is not adequate for a full building evacuation. The emergency lighting is missing from half of the floors. The fire service struggle to reach the building due to previous car park modifications causing access issues as warned by the resident action group in 2013. I’ve seen some other FB posts implicating Labour figures in odd ways, including claiming that Ed Miliband chose the cladding, but have been unable to verify any of those claims thus far. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/233 "2017-06-19T13:03:25Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > It looks as though the walls may have been internally lined with something - that pattern of protrusions on the wall in the first photo is, I think, blobs of construction adhesive onto which some sheet material had been glued. I wonder if this internal cladding (and the sheet material for the internal non-structural walls) was all made from something flammable such as MDF. I know plaster board can decompose in a fire, but it looks like the walls actually contributed to the fire here. Sheetrock/plasterboard/drywall/wallboard is fire resistant, not fire proof. It resists fire at least in part by having water chemically bonded into the materials. The fire driving off that water is where the resistance comes in, but doing so chemically changes the composition of the board. When the water is all driven off the board physically crumbles. It basically works by ablation, so it won’t resist a fire forever, just slow down the spread - which is no small thing, if it buys people time to escape and/or be rescued. In other words, in a really hot fire the wallboard turns to dust and crumbles, mixing with ash and other debris - basically the effect seen on the video. The interior walls are gone, the concrete shell remains with signs of wallboard having been attached, but the wallboard gone. Rated fire materials will give the result seen with a fire hot enough and/or long enough. I don’t claim to be entirely conversant with fire codes anywhere, but back when I worked in construction we never used anything but drywall/wallboard for interior walls and surfaces. Maybe a private individual might use it for something involving changing the interior, but the industry wouldn’t. Aside from fire codes, wallboard is a LOT easier to cut and shape than MDF. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/234 "2017-06-19T13:08:50Z")
[The number is now 79.](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_BRITAIN_LONDON_FIRE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-06-19-06-26-25) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/235 "2017-06-19T13:18:32Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Sheetrock/plasterboard/drywall/wallboard is fire resistant, not fire proof. It resists fire at least in part by having water chemically bonded into the materials. The fire driving off that water is where the resistance comes in, but doing so chemically changes the composition of the board. When the water is all driven off the board physically crumbles. It basically works by ablation, so it won’t resist a fire forever, just slow down the spread - which is no small thing, if it buys people time to escape and/or be rescued. > > In other words, in a really hot fire the wallboard turns to dust and crumbles, mixing with ash and other debris - basically the effect seen on the video. The interior walls are gone, the concrete shell remains with signs of wallboard having been attached, but the wallboard gone. Rated fire materials will give the result seen with a fire hot enough and/or long enough. Sure - the question is though, what was the fuel? I guess the kitchen cabinets will have been chipboard, and there will have been soft furnishings etc. Maybe that’s enough to have caused this sort of damage. > [@](#): > > I don’t claim to be entirely conversant with fire codes anywhere, but back when I worked in construction we never used anything but drywall/wallboard for interior walls and surfaces. Maybe a private individual might use it for something involving changing the interior, but the industry wouldn’t. Remember the context. We’re already talking about a building that was ‘made over’ by sheathing it with flammable plastic. What _should have_ happened and what _did_ happen are already at odds. > [@](#): > > Aside from fire codes, wallboard is a LOT easier to cut and shape than MDF. Sure, but there are other materials - including boards with foam core etc. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/236 "2017-06-19T14:29:16Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Say what will you about the usefulness of royalty but when shit goes to hell, the Queen shows up to try to make people feel better in her own way. She’s willing to look bad things in the face and call it like it is. She represents the nation, not a party. That gives her moral authority and freedom of action not avaialble to lesser figures. That she does not abuse it, only increases her moral authority. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/237 "2017-06-19T14:34:37Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > The fire brigade have released photos and a video of the inside of one of the flats (a flat whose occupants all survived). There’s just nothing left. These are not open plan flats, though they look it now - the internal walls have simply vanished. [Harrowing photos and footage show destruction of Grenfell Tower fire as police release first haunting pictures inside building - Mirror Online](https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/harrowing-photos-show-destruction-grenfell-10644605.amp) That’s a stunning level of destruction. That flat must’ve burned kiln-hot. Finding human remains in that will be VERY challenging - It’s a virtual crematorium there. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/238 "2017-06-19T14:41:22Z")
I’ve never, even in a tower block, seen a real made of MDF. Plasterboard, yes, with a render. There are quite a lot of differences between UK and US building terms so I’m not sure when we’re using the same terminology. The kitchens will mostly have looked like this: [https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=decent+homes+standard+kitchen+layout&client=ms-android-cubot&prmd=isnv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjxpZuoicrUAhWJIcAKHbP2AEYQ\_AUICSgB&biw=360&bih=560#imgrc=\_h\_Il1ZisCDRyM:](https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=decent+homes+standard+kitchen+layout&client=ms-android-cubot&prmd=isnv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjxpZuoicrUAhWJIcAKHbP2AEYQ_AUICSgB&biw=360&bih=560#imgrc=_h_Il1ZisCDRyM:) The “decent homes” standard meant that all kitchens over 30 years old in social housing were replaced if they were in poor repair (and the standards were so defined that most kitchens were in poor repair). I had the same kitchen at my old place and at my new place. Colour varies slightly but that’s it. Lino on the floor, MDF cupboards and chipboard work surfaces with some sort of water resistant veneer. The private flats won’t have had them but almost all the social ones will. I really hope they don’t turn out to be a contributor to the fire because replacing all of them would be impossible. Btw I did mean full council tax payers, not fill. Sorry - I’m on my phone and sometimes miss predictive text errors. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/239 "2017-06-19T15:12:29Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Meanwhile here’s a purported timeline of culpability from Facebook. Point of order: Johnson’s cuts to the fire brigade [were reviewed](https://www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/mayoral/overall-the-service-has-coped-well-with-cuts) last year by the current mayor, Sadiq Khan, who did not change them and indeed continued with further cuts of £23.5M. And the fire brigade responded admirably anyway. > [@](#): > > Anthony Mayer said: “London Fire Brigade continues to do an excellent job at keeping Londoners safe and reducing fires across the capital. In the face of significant funding reductions, it has not faltered but implemented a number of sensible and successful adaptations. Nevertheless, it is important that the current budget gap is not allowed to widen further. The service must continue to evolve and adjust to future challenges. Ring-fencing funds for potential major incidents and re-housing second appliances could make a big difference to the Brigade’s ability to maintain its readiness and resources to protect the capital, whatever the future may hold.” > > Sadiq Khan said: “Keeping Londoners safe is my top priority, and I am extremely grateful to Anthony Mayer for this report. I wanted to be assured that our capital’s fire service has the resources it needs to cope in the event of a fire or a major emergency and am encouraged to see that despite heavy cuts, the London Fire Brigade continues to do a fantastic job. However, we cannot be complacent. I will be carefully considering these recommendations and doing everything in my power to ensure that every step is taken to keep London as prepared and safe as possible.” The rest, of course, is well-founded. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2017, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926/240 "2017-06-19T15:14:05Z")
Another predictive text error there - for “real” in the first sentence above read “wall.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grenfell-tower-fire-london/788926.md?page=13)