Wood’s affair came at a critical point in his career. He was reaching the age where he was going to have to adjust, and he lost too many months to it (and injuries). He’s only a shadow of his former self these days, and his chances of catching Nicklaus – considered fairly good when it all blew up for him – are now remote.
Big Bill Tilden, possibly America’s greatest tennis player. Changed the way tennis was played. Never heard of him? He was openly gay in a time when you just didn’t do that, and he did not hide his affection for teenage boys in a time when you Definitely Didn’t Do That. After his second prison term he was virtually washed up. He was not literally washed up because he stopped bathing and changing his clothes. Not that he ever was much on bathing … he did not shower after a match. He was noted for his skill on the court and his odor off the court.
What you guys are saying about Gretzsky improving his teammates reminds me of how Kerry Kittles played basketball. Yeah, he probably wasn’t the best at it, and his pro career was pretty short, but he was the best I’ve ever seen. Unfortunately the usual stats aren’t very good at showcasing “helps the rest of the team do better”.
And I’m surprised nobody’s mentioned Lance Armstrong or Usain Bolt yet.
Chamberlain is precisely the correct analogy, not Jordan. He was the first really big man to bring a ton of actual talent to the center position. His scoring touch was not really better than a lot of people? He’s the only player to ever score 100 points in an NBA game. The only player to average 50 per game in a season. He was a seven-time NBA scoring champ.
Chamberlain had something of a reputation for being selfish, but he was also the first and only center in NBA history to ever lead the league in assists – the very definition of unselfish play.
He was bigger and stronger than most of the players around him, but he didn’t simply steamroll people – he never fouled out of a single game in his 14-year career. In fact, in a position that generally requires physical play, he nevertheless was able to dominate without even getting in a lot of foul trouble and without being forced to spend long stretches on the bench as a result of foul problems – he never averaged less than 42.1 minutes per game in a season and at his best averaged a whopping 48.5 mpg.
Chamberlain utterly redefined the center position and set a standard for excellence at his job that no one has ever come close to. Without Wilt, there is no Kareem, no Admiral, no Hakeem, and no Shaq.
Jordan was an outstanding 2 guard, almost certainly the best shooting guard that ever was, but he redefined nothing, changed nothing about how the game is played. He got his name on a lot of sneakers, though.
Kittles had pretty good stats. His career was shortened by knee problems, not a lack of respect or job opportunities. They tried to fix it, but his knee was toast.
Gretzky? Situational awareness.
It’s not like I have access to hundreds of hours of 50 year old NBA game tapes, so I can’t point to primary sources, but everything I’ve read says that while Chamberlain was very, very, good at it, he didn’t do anything that George Mikan didn’t do. Whereas nobody ever played back-to-the-basket post-up center before George Mikan.
So, what kinds of things are you saying Chamberlain did that nobody did before him? (Yes, I acknowledge he holds volume records, many of which are unlikely to be beaten for a long long time, but volume records don’t prove he did anything qualitatively different; they just prove he did it a lot and well).
Tinsley lost 7 matches, what a loser.
You could almost say that time is still with us.
It’s definitely still with us, in fact, I get the impression that it was tolerated to an extent that would not happen nowadays by the sport media. But it still was not tolerated, and it still ruined him, though I imagine it was the homosexuality that was the big issue, not the underage sex so much. Could be wrong, though, it’s hard to judge attitudes so far back except everything connected with sex was EEEVUL!!! in those days.
MODS:
Could one of you please fix the spelling of the transcendent great Wayne Gretzky in this thread’s title?
Gretzky not Gretzsky.
Thank you.
Mikan in his short career certainly defined what a scoring center could be. Chamberlain didn’t just take the next natural progression, he completely reset the bar.
Whereas Mikan’s best shooting percentage in a season was a pedestrian .428, Wilt’s worst year was .461, and his best was .727. Playing with his back to the basket and posting up was revolutionary; finishing consistently and getting good shots whenever he was within 10 feet of the basket was remarkable.
Whereas Mikan was a solid rebounder who led the league twice and had a good 13.4 career average, Wilt redefined what great rebounding was, leading the league 11 times and averaging 22.9 per game – almost double what Mikan was able to acheive. Moreover, Mikan had to bang bodies underneath to get his boards (like most people); he averaged 4.3 fouls per game in his career. Chamberlain was able to dominate the boards and get to the basket almost effortlessly, averaging just 2.0 fouls per game.
Chamberlain also was able to handle the ball and distribute it better than virtually any center before or since. He could dribble in traffic unlike most big men, and his career assists per game average (4.4) is more along the lines of what you might expect from a shooting guard or small forward (recent Hall of Fame inductee and one-dimensional 2-guard Reggie Miller never averaged 4.4 assists in a season).
One of the things I believe sometimes defines a transcendant player is that their utter domination of the game results in the rules of the game being changed to level the playing field when that player is competeing against mere mortals. To Mikan’s credit, he fits the bill in that respect – the key was widened from six feet to 12 during his tenure to reduce his effect on the game. But, significantly, they did the same thing again in the 60s while Wilt was playing, widening it out to 16’ to keep him further from the rim.
The actual craziest thing I’ve ever heard anyone say about sports. And I know who Woody Paige is.
Really? How so? Jordan is fourth all-time in field goals, 126th in FG Pct, 78th in FT Pct, 112th in rebounds, 36th in assists, 3rd in total points, 3rd in steals and needs to win 5 more championships just to tie Bill Russell. How did he redefine anything? He was really good at everything, certainly the best player of his generation and in the top 5 players of all-time (I put him third). He was better than everyone he ever played against, but he didn’t change the game. Please explain your position.
I was half expecting your final link to be to Phil “The Power” Taylor.
This is one of those situations where it’s instructive to look at what people thought at the time. Wilt averaged 50ppg one season, yet he didn’t even win the MVP that year. Why? Seems as if his contemporaries were far less impressed with his statistical dominance than we are.
You are also forgetting that the pace of the game was much faster, nobody played defense, coaching was pretty poor, and the level of professionalism was lower. In fact, when you adjust for the pace of the game, both Jordan and Kobe have had as statistically impressive seasons points wise.
You also need to keep in mind that Wilt played 48.5 mpg that season. I suppose that is impressive stamina-wise, but it shows how his stats are more a result of his circumstances instead of other worldy skill. His efficiency rating are not as good as many other players.
Because he set out to do that that one year at the costs of wins and team chemistry. It’s impressive that he was able to do it, but it wasn’t organic. And as much as you try to make it seems like it wasn’t selfish, it was the very definition of the word. That’s why Wilt is generally not considered to be better than Russell by people who study the game. Wilt played for Wilt. This is also why not ever fouling out is not impressive. He stopped playing hard once he got 4 fouls. This demonstrably caused them to lose games.
You make some interesting points that I will give some further thought to before responding fully.
However, to your comment regarding Wilt’s “selfishly” racking up assists, during the three seasons where Chamberlain produced his three highest assist averages (1965-68), the Sixers won the East three straight times, with a combined record of 185-58 and won an NBA championship, breaking into the Celtics’ 11-in-13 run. Now I’m not a statistician by any stretch, but that strikes me as a fair bit of success. With them only averaging 19 losses a year during that run, I’m not entirely sure how many losses you think his selfish play was costing the team.
And with regards to his stamina and “soft” play, if you can point me in the direction of any other 7-footers out there who can get up and down the court for more than a game per game at a significantly elevated pace from what is currently played today and still manage to go 50.4/25.7/2.4 PAR, and not foul out once, even by accident, I’d be very interested to meet him. Whether or not he won the annual popularity contest that is the MVP is rather beside the point.
John Brzenk gets a mention from me. Saw his documentary on netflicks and was very suprised. I had never even heard of arm wrestling as an organized sport, however the same guy won the national championship 14 years straight.
Maybe the movie played up how impressive that is, but he seems to be a legend among his peers. He’s a very average looking 200 pounds man also, and routinely beat huge muscle bound guys. So it’s not just raw strength.
Just thought it was worth a shout to add some variety to the post.
Also Muhammad Ali.
I should have been more clear. Obviously an assist can be helpful to the team, but if a guy is passing with the sole purpose of achieving a record and proving something to himself, it makes it kinda hollow to me. There are stories Wilt yelling at teammates who missed shots because it cost HIM an assist. Obviously his teams were great, as they had multiple HOFs and Wilt, but the statistical landmarks are more about Wilts commitment to Wilt as opposed to trying to win. Sometimes the stars aligh in such a way to make the two goals overlap, but more often than not, they didn’t.
I don’t think Wilt was soft. The only critique along those lines is that would stop playing hard once he got 4 fouls because he had this perverse desire to never foul out. Not fouling out, when you make a conscious effort not to do it, at the expense of winning the game, is not a skill or an admirable quality. If anything, that is a negative mark against him given the way he acheived it. It’s like never missing a day of school by going to school sick, and sleeping all day in the nurse’s office.
His stamina was obviously pretty great, but the game is so much different now. It’s like a current baseball pitcher getting 300 or 400 wins. It just doesn’t happen anymore for a variety of reasons. Doesn’t mean pitchers were all better back then. Playing 48 min/game could not occur today because the competitors are much better, the roles are more defined and specialized, and the game requires more effort and skill.
The stats of that era are wildly inflated. Wilt was generally a mediocre shooter, it’s just that nobody could keep him away from the basket. During is 50 ppg season, he took nearly 40 shots/game. Even his 100 point game, while impressive, should be noted along with the fact that 316 total points were scored in that game. The guy shot 32 free throws. That is crazy. It doesn’t mean he wasn’t a great player, it just means we need to view these things in context. In context, the guy with the best stats usually lost in the playoffs. And as much as you devalue the MVP race as a popularity contest, it gives us some idea of how people viewed the players at the time.
Walter Lindrum was such a good billiards player they had to change the rules to give other players a chance (or to stop games from being incredibly boring, depending on how you look at it).