# Grimm's Fairy Tale - A Blue Light - No. 116 **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 7, 2018, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grimms-fairy-tale-a-blue-light-no-116/813787 "2018-05-07T22:18:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grimms-fairy-tale-a-blue-light-no-116/813787/1 "2018-05-07T22:18:02Z")
I remember reading this fairy tale and wondering exactly what “a blue light” was. I can Google any of a number of copies of this tale and its also on Wikipedia. [The Blue Light (fairy tale) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_Light_(fairy_tale)) What, exactly, is a “light” in this context. Obviously, this one burns blue, and it never burns out, 'cause its magical. You can use it to light your pipe, so its a fire, I get that. And you just carry it, burning, in your pocket? What’s that even mean? What would a normal “light” be, for people of the technology level appropriate for the stories? I thought Wikipedia would have defined it for us – maybe a “light” is a smoldering punk kept all night and used to rekindle the household fire the net morning. So a “light” is a temporary flame – like a wax coated cord you’d use to transfer fire from the hearth to other things that needed burning? No one had to define this when they wrote (collected, whatever) the story. Its a “light.” Oh, yeah, its a blue one, and it never goes out. Otherwise, you know, a typical “light.” No. No I don’t know. What were the Grimm Bros and their antecedents talking about so casually? ---
**Author:** ![Ignotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecc23a/32.png) [@Ignotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignotus)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grimms-fairy-tale-a-blue-light-no-116/813787/2 "2018-05-07T22:58:10Z")
The [will-o’-the-wisp](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will-o%27-the-wisp)? ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grimms-fairy-tale-a-blue-light-no-116/813787/3 "2018-05-07T23:00:09Z")
I think you’ve answered your own question as best as anyone will be able. Since he’s using it to light his pipe so casually, I agree that it’s what was called a ‘light’ or a ‘taper’ sometimes; that wax-coated string or twine that was used to transfer a small flame from someplace awkward like a fireplace or a lantern to a smaller candle or oil lamp… or to light a pipe. The more peculiar question is how was the blue light trapped down that well when the witch used that area like a storage compartment? ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grimms-fairy-tale-a-blue-light-no-116/813787/4 "2018-05-07T23:02:27Z")
The blue light doesn’t seem to have been based on anything real. Just a figment of a very fertile imagination. > [@](#): > > The revenge element is clear and needs no further comment from me. What is not so clear, although it is the central element, is the nature of the Blue Light. I have not encountered a blue light in any other story, yet Aarne-Thompson type 562 is titled “Spirit in the Blue Light.” Heidi Anne Heiner (Sur La Lune) suggests it is a will-of-the-wisp, but I cannot agree. The will-of-the-wisp is seen by, or serves as a guide to, travellers. The Blue Light has more in common with Aladdin’s lamp. > > Now and again, an element appears in these fairy tales that (pardon the pun) drops out of the blue. They seem to have no connections, no predecessors, no point. The Blue Light is one of these. The nature of the Blue Light remains at the bottom of the dry well. I have spoken of wells before, and they hold their secrets. > > [https://chaztales.wordpress.com/tag/the-blue-light/](https://chaztales.wordpress.com/tag/the-blue-light/) ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grimms-fairy-tale-a-blue-light-no-116/813787/5 "2018-05-08T01:39:19Z")
So people did call a ‘taper’ a ‘light’ in those days. Or like the blog says, they made up the term, and didn’t feel bad about, since we can tell from the context how it works. Well, I’m back where I started, but at least there are some explanations for why nobody gave explanations. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grimms-fairy-tale-a-blue-light-no-116/813787/6 "2018-05-09T10:44:13Z")
A “blue light” is a kind of pyrotechnic, used (especially at sea) to mark or signal. Much like red fusees were used by the railways. In the American revolutionary “Blue Light Affair”, they were used from land to signal ships. I always assumed that is what the Grimms were referring to. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grimms-fairy-tale-a-blue-light-no-116/813787/7 "2018-05-09T13:10:36Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > A “blue light” is a kind of pyrotechnic, used (especially at sea) to mark or signal. Much like red fusees were used by the railways. In the American revolutionary “Blue Light Affair”, they were used from land to signal ships. I always assumed that is what the Grimms were referring to. …except the Brothers Grimm did not create the story, they were collectors of traditional oral folk tales. They compiled and published popular (mostly German) versions of these fairy tales and those of other contemporaries such as Charles Perrault. The origin of “The Blue Light” is unknown as many of the collected stories were passed on, generation to generation, at bedtime, campfires, gatherings, etc… long before the the brothers first set them to print. Secondly, “The Blue Light” appears in the _Kinder- und Hausmärchen_ Volume 2 and was first published in 1815, this would precede the use of maritime signal flares, the American Revolution, Railroads, etc… As for the Blue Light, it’s physical details are vague. It’s dimensions and tangibility are not described. “It burns blue and never goes out”, “…continues to burn” and “lit it with the blue light” - all suggest a blue flame, although there is no mention of whether it emits any heat. Curiously, it is not used as a light source in the well, in the tunnels, or in prison so it can’t be particularly bright. The soldier is also able to pick it up, transport it and pack it in the little bundle that he pays his comrade retrieves for him. He is also able to conceal it while in prison and during his trial. Therefore, it cannot be an just open flame and must have some sort of holder or container. From these observations, my own imagination pictures some sort of miniature hooded lantern containing a single blue eternal flame. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grimms-fairy-tale-a-blue-light-no-116/813787/8 "2018-05-09T13:43:36Z")
I think the fact he only uses it for ignition means it is a fire lighter, or smokers lighter. A Blue light would mean it used naptha , white spirits, ethanol or a gas. A bit early for gas, so one of the others. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grimms-fairy-tale-a-blue-light-no-116/813787/9 "2018-05-09T15:42:47Z")
> [@Arkcon](#): > > I thought Wikipedia would have defined it for us – maybe a “light” is a smoldering punk kept all night and used to rekindle the household fire the net morning. So a “light” is a temporary flame – like a wax coated cord you’d use to transfer fire from the hearth to other things that needed burning? > > No one had to define this when they wrote (collected, whatever) the story. Its a “light.” Oh, yeah, its a blue one, and it never goes out. Except it’s not his household, it’s their household, and he’s welcome no more. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grimms-fairy-tale-a-blue-light-no-116/813787/10 "2018-05-09T16:14:38Z")
> [@Ignotus](#): > > The [will-o’-the-wisp](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will-o%27-the-wisp)? German Wikipedia says yes (or at least a scholarly maybe). I’m not good enough with German to translate, but here is the link: [Das blaue Licht](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_blaue_Licht) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grimms-fairy-tale-a-blue-light-no-116/813787/11 "2018-05-09T17:16:48Z")
> [@ludovic](#): > > except it’s not his household, it’s their household, and he’s welcome no more. 😃 iswydt ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grimms-fairy-tale-a-blue-light-no-116/813787/12 "2018-05-10T04:27:11Z")
> [@Sparky812](#): > > Secondly, “The Blue Light” appears in the _Kinder- und Hausmärchen_ Volume 2 and was first published in 1815, this would precede the use of maritime signal flares, the American Revolution, Railroads, etc… While not disagreeing with your conclusions, 1815 doesn’t predate 1812 or maritime signal flares ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grimms-fairy-tale-a-blue-light-no-116/813787/13 "2018-05-10T08:42:58Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > While not disagreeing with your conclusions, 1815 doesn’t predate 1812 or maritime signal flares While you’re correct, the actual stories are a lot older than their collection date. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grimms-fairy-tale-a-blue-light-no-116/813787/14 "2018-05-10T11:34:11Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > While not disagreeing with your conclusions, 1815 doesn’t predate 1812 or maritime signal flares > [@MrDibble](#): > > While you’re correct, the actual stories are a lot older than their collection date. Exactly, that was my intended point. Sorry, Melbourne’s post confused me with > [@](#): > > American revolutionary “Blue Light Affair” An event that actually occurred during the War of 1812. (1812-1815) ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grimms-fairy-tale-a-blue-light-no-116/813787/15 "2018-05-10T14:29:50Z")
> [@Arkcon](#): > > No. No I don’t know. What were the Grimm Bros and their antecedents talking about so casually? It’s a [Bluecap](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluecap). Or, since it’s probably Germanic folklore, a [Kobold](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobold#Mine_spirits) of some type. Mine fairies/dwarves are often associated with flames burning blue, probably to explain encounters with gas pockets. Sulfur and some other chemicals can make flames burn blue. ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grimms-fairy-tale-a-blue-light-no-116/813787/16 "2018-05-10T15:14:35Z")
Now that make a little bit of sense. The witch _previously_ had a friendly, household, kobold, that she somehow tricked to not stay in a mine, but it ran and hid in the well anyway. Using it, somehow, summons some other type of dwarf, maybe using lets it know you need help of some sort? And although I never heard that story before, we’ve already established, the Grimm bros, when collecting these stories, didn’t feel it necessary to be specific.