# Grinning Cheshire cats **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [November 19, 2008, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grinning-cheshire-cats/473490 "2008-11-19T19:00:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grinning-cheshire-cats/473490/1 "2008-11-19T19:00:13Z")
Cecil says: > [@](#): > > The Cheshire cat in Alice in Wonderland is Lewis Carroll’s play on a popular expression–“to grin like a Cheshire cat”–of obscure origin. Cheshire is a dairy county in western England famous for its cheese–cheese that once, according to legend, came molded in the shape of a grinning cat. Isn’t it possible that the expression comes from the fact that the county is a dairy county, and thus flush with milk? Wouldn’t any cat in Cheshire county be grinning at the bounty before him? > **[Why do cats purr? Why do Cheshire cats grin?](https://www.straightdope.com/21344501/why-do-cats-purr-why-do-cheshire-cats-grin)** ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grinning-cheshire-cats/473490/2 "2008-11-19T19:08:46Z")
Several theories are given at [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire\_cat](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire_cat) ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grinning-cheshire-cats/473490/3 "2008-11-20T21:14:37Z")
The other topic Cecil dealt with was why cats purr. One thing he didn’t cover though was, do the big cats purr. Do lions purr, tigers, etc.? ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grinning-cheshire-cats/473490/4 "2008-11-20T23:05:25Z")
Yes. It was long thought that only small cats purr, but it is now established that they all do. ---
**Author:** ![Level3Navigator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Level3Navigator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Level3Navigator)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2008, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grinning-cheshire-cats/473490/5 "2008-11-21T15:46:46Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > The other topic Cecil dealt with was why cats purr. One thing he didn’t cover though was, do the big cats purr. Do lions purr, tigers, etc.? I once had the chance to visit a cheetah reserve in South Africa, and was allowed to approach and scratch / pet one of the tamer cheetahs (after it had eaten, of course). It most definitely purred, and in a lower bass register than a house cat. It also had it’s own form of a ‘meow’. A stunningly beautiful animal, and one of my life’s most precious memories. ---
**Author:** ![Daerlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Daerlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daerlyn)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grinning-cheshire-cats/473490/6 "2008-11-24T16:02:28Z")
The wikipedia entry on ‘[Purr](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purr)’ has some interesting links (including one to this column!). As a longtime cat owner I’ve noticed my cats will (in addition to sounding like off-centre coffee grinders when they’re happy) purr in times of stress, like vet visits. My theory is that in addition to using it as a sign of comfort, they’ll purr in an effort to comfort/calm themselves. The theory of purring as an actual physical healing mechanism, as opposed to simply a calming activity, has also been [put forward](http://animalvoice.com/catpur.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Fredda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/57b2e6/32.png) [@Fredda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fredda)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grinning-cheshire-cats/473490/7 "2008-11-25T18:07:40Z")
In the lore surrounding the breed, British Shorthair cats are said to be the inspiration for Lewis Carroll’s Cheshire cat. Although somewhat rare in the US, the British Shorthair is a recognized breed, which originated in the British Isles and is said to be a mix of British feral cats and the cats that the Romans brought to Britain. British Shorthairs are a very good natured breed with chubby cheeks and they do appear to be smiling. Fredda from Minneapolis Companion of Monte, a British Blue ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2008, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grinning-cheshire-cats/473490/8 "2008-11-27T13:35:53Z")
[QUOTE=Irishman] Cecil says: Isn’t it possible that the expression comes from the fact that the county is a dairy county, and thus flush with milk? Wouldn’t any cat in Cheshire county be grinning at the bounty before him? [/QUOTE] I agree, this is the most plausible explanation, apparently it is also what the locals believe. It would make more sense that someone decided to capitalize on the Chesire cat after the saying had entered the local lexicon. An interesting fact, Cecil didn’t mention, is that Dodgson was born in Daresbury in Chesire county and lived there until the age of twelve so he would have been quite familiar with the saying. ---
**Author:** ![InterestedObserver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@InterestedObserver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InterestedObserver)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grinning-cheshire-cats/473490/9 "2008-11-29T22:46:29Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Cecil says: > Isn’t it possible that the expression comes from the fact that the county is a dairy county, and thus flush with milk? Wouldn’t any cat in Cheshire county be grinning at the bounty before him? > > [Why do cats purr? Why do Cheshire cats grin? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/9/why-do-cats-purr-why-do-cheshire-cats-grin) My thoughts exactly when I read that and I found it odd that the possibility wasn’t mentioned. Sounds like a perfectly plausible origin, along the lines of similar sayings such as “nervous as a cat in a rocking chair factory”🙂