# Grizzly Man (documentary); open spoilers
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grizzly-man-documentary-open-spoilers/337682
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [December 30, 2005, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grizzly-man-documentary-open-spoilers/337682 "2005-12-30T04:08:01Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@jackelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackelope)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2006, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grizzly-man-documentary-open-spoilers/337682/21 "2006-02-04T18:17:11Z")
[Previous thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=333210&highlight=herzog) on the topic.
The more I think about the film in retrospect (which has been quite a lot), the more intrigued I become with it as a film project. There are several layers of interpretation involved; I really can’t think of another documentary that was filmed by one person (in this case Treadwell), with his own views and slant and opinions showing in every frame, but then edited by a different, unassociated person (Herzog), who also has his own, very different view of the material. The result, of course, is fascinating; I suspect that repeated viewings (I’ve only seen it once, in the theater) would help me sort out the various levels of communication and artifice.
I had an interesting conversation about this film just yesterday with a classmate. “I loved Treadwell!” she said. “He was so open and honest about himself and about everything, and he was doing so much to help the bears.”
I picked my jaw up off the floor. “I didn’t think he was open and honest at ALL,” I said, “I thought he was desperately trying to _appear_ to be open and honest, and working his ass off to keep avoiding whatever he was avoiding.”
---
### Author:  [@stretch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stretch)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2006, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grizzly-man-documentary-open-spoilers/337682/22 "2006-02-04T20:56:45Z")
I watched part of this last night; there was some breathtaking footage and I loved watching the bears–it was why I tuned in. But I got so pissed of at Treadwell that I couldn’t watch anymore. He endangered the animals he was “protecting” and was an idiot.
In the part I did watch, Treadwell consistently showed the wrong way to interact with wild animals. He’d talk a big talk about showing dominance and earning respect, and then turn right around and get low and talk in a high-pitched voice, showing submission.
And getting so close to that fox family–I wanted to slap him!
Mr.stretch doesn’t think this movie should be shown at all–he thinks it is glorifying the actions of Treadwell and may give other people the idea that what Treadwell was doing was a good idea. None of the things Treadwell did were good ideas or helpful to the animals.
I agree with the helicopter pilot who said that Treadwell got what he deserved.
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### Author:  [@KSO](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KSO)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2006, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grizzly-man-documentary-open-spoilers/337682/23 "2006-02-04T21:08:47Z")
> [@katie1341](#):
>
> ```
> I was also disturbed at the way someone (it may have been Herzog) characterized Treadwell's death as "murder" by the bear.
>
> ```
This caught my attention also. Wild animals are not “murderers.”
> [@stretch](#):
>
> I agree with the helicopter pilot who said that Treadwell got what he deserved.
I disagree. As Treadwell’s friend pointed out, no one deserves to be mauled and partially eaten by a bear. That said, it’s an ending that anyone could have seen coming a mile away.
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### Author:  [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2006, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grizzly-man-documentary-open-spoilers/337682/24 "2006-02-04T21:46:43Z")
> [@Ferret Herder](#):
>
> He said he knew the bears well enough to not have to carry bear spray or any other protection, and that he would be “honored to end up in bear scat.” ([Cite](http://www.adn.com/front/story/4110831p-4127072c.html)) Yet during the attack, he was yelling for his girlfriend to beat the bear(s) with something, IIRC. . . And in the moment of truth, he decided that being part of bear scat wasn’t such a good idea after all, but had previously cast aside all defenses that might have prevented that.
In fairness to Treadwell, and all looniness aside, there’s a big difference between _wanting_ to be eaten by a bear and _accepting_ that you might be. Also, even assuming that Treadwell asked his girlfriend to attack the bear (the movie account makes it sound like he was telling her to run away), there wasn’t anything in that camp that was capable of inflicting serious injury on a grizzly. A frying pan might have startled the bear, but that’s probably about all it could do.
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### Author:  [@stretch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stretch)
#### Post date: [February 4, 2006, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grizzly-man-documentary-open-spoilers/337682/25 "2006-02-04T22:38:37Z")
> [@KSO](#):
>
> I disagree. As Treadwell’s friend pointed out, no one deserves to be mauled and partially eaten by a bear. That said, it’s an ending that anyone could have seen coming a mile away.
Grizzly bears are omnivores and predators, as well as being scavengers–they eat meat when it is available and easy to get. Treadwell put himself in a position where he was prey; prey’s purpose is to be eaten. Salmon are prey, deer are prey, stupid people are prey. IMO, if you deliberately go into a situation where you know that you will be seen as prey, then you act like you’re above being eaten because you’re friends with the animals, you deserve to be eaten.
He wanted to live the wild life…he got to die the death he deserved for living the way he did in the wild.
Treadwell did at least two things that were incredibly stupid and probably led to his death. One, he paid lip service to the concept of bears being predators, but he acted submissive, like prey. Two, he encroached on bear territory and didn’t back down, like a retarded younger bear that needs to be taken out of the gene pool.
Maybe I’m just hard-hearted, but IMO either option results in a deserved death.
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### Author:  [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2006, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grizzly-man-documentary-open-spoilers/337682/26 "2006-02-05T02:59:41Z")
Interestingly, the wisest words in the movie come from the Native Alaskan, who spoke very realistically (not sentimentally or mystically, as some white folk would EXPECT a Native American to speak about animals) about how thoroughly Treadwell misunderstood the bear.
The Native Alaskan and the rangers interviewed all used the same word to describe Treadwell’s actions: “disrespectful.”
Native Alaskans have lived near the bear for thousands of years, and while there have been occasional deadly encounters for both species, man and bear coexisted because they learned to respect each other’s boundaries. Native Alaskans knew better than to invade a bear’s territory, and if they found themselves in a bear’s territory, they knew enough to show proper respect by staying at a distance. The Native Alaskans also understood that mutual fear and respect were as fragile as they were necessary. Not only was there an immediate danger to humans who got too close to bears, there was a more serious, long-term danger: bears would only become MORE dangerous and deadly if they came to believe that strict boundaries between the species no longer had to be observed.
Thing is, even if Treadwell WERE a bear himself, his presence on another bear’s turf would probably be unwelcome. In some ways, it’s amazing he survived as long as he did.
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### Author:  [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2006, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grizzly-man-documentary-open-spoilers/337682/27 "2006-02-05T05:49:43Z")
This may have already been mentioned, but I think I read somewhere the only bear ever killed or at least lately in the area he frequented was the one that killed him and his girlfriend. That qualify as irony?
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### Author:  [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2006, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grizzly-man-documentary-open-spoilers/337682/28 "2006-02-05T06:17:44Z")
Okay, just watched it on Discovery. Don’t think he was mentally ill at all, but a complete fucking idiot. Complete.Fucking.Idiot.
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### Author:  [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2006, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grizzly-man-documentary-open-spoilers/337682/29 "2006-02-05T06:45:15Z")
Anyone know the story on Jewel? That house her interview was filmed in has to be worth a couple mill.
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### Author:  [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2006, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grizzly-man-documentary-open-spoilers/337682/30 "2006-02-05T07:05:31Z")
Self.Absorbed.
I think Jewel will sell that tape eventually.
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### Author:  [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2006, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grizzly-man-documentary-open-spoilers/337682/31 "2006-02-05T14:25:20Z")
Is it bad that I have a strong I am curious enough to want to hear the tape where they are attacked and killed?
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2006, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grizzly-man-documentary-open-spoilers/337682/32 "2006-02-05T14:37:55Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#):
>
> Is it bad that I have a strong I am curious enough to want to hear the tape where they are attacked and killed?
Yes.
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### Author:  [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2006, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grizzly-man-documentary-open-spoilers/337682/33 "2006-02-05T14:49:14Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#):
>
> Is it bad that I have a strong I am curious enough to want to hear the tape where they are attacked and killed?
It made the rounds on the internet when it happened, but I’m too lazy to try to find an existing link to it this morning.
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2006, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grizzly-man-documentary-open-spoilers/337682/34 "2006-02-05T15:10:33Z")
> [@Operation Ripper](#):
>
> Anyone know the story on Jewel?
Did she help fund Grizzly People? Maybe she is wealthy. She was co-executive [producer](http://www.hollywood.com/celebs/detail/id/2402674) of the film.
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### Author:  [@Greywolf73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greywolf73)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2006, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grizzly-man-documentary-open-spoilers/337682/35 "2006-02-05T15:11:48Z")
I was astounded to see him redirecting the stream so that the salmon would swim down to where the bears could feed during the drought. Way to disrupt thousands of years of natural order there.
Did anyone else think that perhaps the “warnings” carved into the tree trunks at his campsite were done by him for effect?
I think the most chilling scene in the whole film was when he zoomed in on the bear he wasn’t too familar with, talking about how the bear was becoming his “friend” while the director’s voiceover was pointing out the cold, blank stare of a hungry bear.
I’ve also read that the audio of the bear attack has been posted somewhere online. I wonder how it was leaked online if the ex-girlfriend was intending to destroy it? Or said she was, at least.
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### Author:  [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2006, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grizzly-man-documentary-open-spoilers/337682/36 "2006-02-05T16:55:54Z")
> [@Waverly](#):
>
> What I was thinking during the whole movie was: Humans don’t look or smell like food to a bear, so maybe you can get away with being careless some percentage of the time. Press your luck long enough, and you will eventually come across a bear hungry or desperate enough to cross the line. Tim even mentions that ‘Ollie’ is just such a bear, but he doesn’t seem to have treated him with any more caution than the others. I’m convinced that he _did_ commit suicide by bear, whether it was a conscious decision or not.
This is pretty exactly my take.
On one of those “America’s Most Retarded Videos” shows, years ago–hey, I don’t watch them, I was babysitting my sister’s kids–they showed a guy driving through Yellowstone or somewhere with his family. They see a lone bull Bison off in the near distance, and park the car. They approach the buffalo, VTR running of course–I think the mom was doing the camera work–and the dad TAKES HIS LITTLE KID AND PUTS IT ON THE BISON’S BACK FOR A PICTURE. THe Bison, showing remarkable restraint, bucks the kid off. (I have a memory of the kid being tossed into a tree they were standing under, but that’s crazy enough that I doubt that part of my memory.)
Now, I’m sympathetic to the little kid, but this kid represents the joining of genetic material from these two monstrously idiotic parents. So for the benefit of the planet I think it would have been better if the bison-buck had been fatal. But of course they wouldn’t’ve shown this clip on a “family” show if the kid had been harmed.
But, these people who think that the wilderness is their own personal amusement park! While I won’t say that Treadwell got what he “deserved”–as his friend Warren says, who “deserves” to be eaten alive by a bear?–I will say that he has no one to blame but himself.
I’m fascinated by obsessive personalities, even annoying ones (I think Andy Dick should play him in the movie), but in the final analysis, in the case of Timothy Treadwell, I think Darwin has spoken.
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### Author:  [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2006, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grizzly-man-documentary-open-spoilers/337682/37 "2006-02-05T17:00:00Z")
> [@Operation Ripper](#):
>
> This may have already been mentioned, but I think I read somewhere the only bear ever killed or at least lately in the area he frequented was the one that killed him and his girlfriend. That qualify as irony?
There was a followup mini-doc on Discovery, and that Jewel piece-of-work claimed that the fact that there were almost no bears poached during Treadwell’s “tenure” is misleading, and revealing, because the first year after his death there were six bears poached, that they know of. Interesting, but consider the source.
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### Author:  [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2006, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grizzly-man-documentary-open-spoilers/337682/38 "2006-02-05T17:01:55Z")
> [@astorian](#):
>
> Interestingly, the wisest words in the movie come from the Native Alaskan, who spoke very realistically (not sentimentally or mystically, as some white folk would EXPECT a Native American to speak about animals) about how thoroughly Treadwell misunderstood the bear.
>
> The Native Alaskan and the rangers interviewed all used the same word to describe Treadwell’s actions: “disrespectful.”
>
> Native Alaskans have lived near the bear for thousands of years, and while there have been occasional deadly encounters for both species, man and bear coexisted because they learned to respect each other’s boundaries. Native Alaskans knew better than to invade a bear’s territory, and if they found themselves in a bear’s territory, they knew enough to show proper respect by staying at a distance. The Native Alaskans also understood that mutual fear and respect were as fragile as they were necessary. Not only was there an immediate danger to humans who got too close to bears, there was a more serious, long-term danger: bears would only become MORE dangerous and deadly if they came to believe that strict boundaries between the species no longer had to be observed.
>
> Thing is, even if Treadwell WERE a bear himself, his presence on another bear’s turf would probably be unwelcome. In some ways, it’s amazing he survived as long as he did.
I think it’s very telling that Treadwell STILL slept with the teddybear he had as a kid. First off, eww. Second, he obviously had a non-realistic view of REAL bears vs. Steiff bears.
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### Author:  [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2006, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grizzly-man-documentary-open-spoilers/337682/39 "2006-02-05T17:03:15Z")
> [@stretch](#):
>
> Maybe I’m just hard-hearted, but IMO either option results in a deserved death.
_Understandable_, yes; deserved, no.
---
### Author:  [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)
#### Post date: [February 5, 2006, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grizzly-man-documentary-open-spoilers/337682/40 "2006-02-05T17:57:43Z")
Huh. Suddenly it seems like the joke about “the right to arm bears” may not be so funny[after all.](http://www.hollywood.com/news/detail/id/3478770)
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