# Grocery handling in the time of COVID **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [July 26, 2020, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grocery-handling-in-the-time-of-covid/916397 "2020-07-26T16:05:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2020, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grocery-handling-in-the-time-of-covid/916397/62 "2020-07-28T18:22:15Z")
> [@xanthous](#): > > I have been working with a therapist for several years now, and am grateful for her counsel during this. She has expressed concern that I may be going too far with control measures, but I could say she’s being too lax, so who knows? > **[Can Stress Kill You? Research Says Only If You Believe It Can](https://www.forbes.com/sites/vanessaloder/2015/06/03/can-stress-kill-you-research-says-only-if-you-believe-it-can/)** > > Do you believe that stress is harmful to your health? If you answered yes, you are not alone. In 1998, researchers asked thirty thousand adults in the United States how much stress they had experienced in the past year and whether they believed... > [@](#): > > [the researchers found](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3374921/) that high levels of stress increased the risk of dying by 43%…but only for those people who also believed that stress was harming their health. > > Even more fascinating, people who reported high levels of stress but who did not believe their stress was harmful were not more likely to die. In fact, they had the _lowest_ risk of death of anyone in the study, even lower than those with little stress. > > This means that stress itself is not actually bad. It is the _belief_ that stress is bad that is bad. How to make stress your friend (based on the study in the Forbes article) [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/RcGyVTAoXEU/maxresdefault.jpg "How to make stress your friend | Kelly McGonigal | TED") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcGyVTAoXEU) From what I’ve read, many people are feeling stressed about coronavirus. According to the study, the people who are being harmed are the ones who believe that stress is bad. Anyone who wants other people to go along with their view that taking precautions is bad may be trying to make themselves feel better by having other people agree with them, which is wishful thinking and not warranted by the science. I follow the science that I’ve seen posted in this thread. The level of risk people want to take is up to them. Some people who say they have a high risk tolerance may only have a high risk tolerance in that particular area. ---
**Author:** ![RealityCheck71](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitycheck71/32/3493_2.png) [@RealityCheck71](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityCheck71)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2020, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grocery-handling-in-the-time-of-covid/916397/63 "2020-07-28T18:45:21Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > [the researchers found](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3374921/) that high levels of stress increased the risk of dying by 43%…but only for those people who also believed that stress was harming their health Great. Now you just told us that it can harm you we’re all screwed Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2020, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grocery-handling-in-the-time-of-covid/916397/64 "2020-07-28T18:51:37Z")
> [@RealityCheck71](#): > > Great. Now you just told us that it can harm you we’re all screwed > Thanks. lol Good to know that you believe anything I post. You never have before. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2020, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grocery-handling-in-the-time-of-covid/916397/65 "2020-07-28T19:07:45Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I’d worry more about them breathing on me when they handed it to me. That’s probably appropriate, but it doesn’t answer the question I asked: > [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Imagine someone with a known COVID-19 infection hands you a box of mac and cheese. Would you feel comfortable cooking it immediately? Yes, the contents of the box will get cooked, but meanwhile you’re handling the box itself, and touching other things with your hands. Maybe scratching your nose or rubbing your eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2020, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grocery-handling-in-the-time-of-covid/916397/66 "2020-07-28T19:12:14Z")
In the hospitals where I work, most of the medical and nursing staff seem perfectly comfortable sitting down in the cafeteria (usually well dispersed through the room) and eating their food like normal human beings. So far the vast majority of them have not been struck down by the plague. I’m not comfortable eating in the cafeteria, even a dozen feet away from someone else, but I’m aware that this may be irrational. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2020, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grocery-handling-in-the-time-of-covid/916397/67 "2020-07-28T20:04:17Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Imagine someone with a known COVID-19 infection hands you a box of mac and cheese. Would you feel comfortable cooking it immediately? I wouldn’t have any qualms about cooking it immediately. But I might be careful to wash my hands after touching the box, and/or use a paper towel or something to handle it rather than touching the box directly. (Even that, I think, is probably unnecessary—but that’s “probably,” not “certainly.”) The fact that it’s a box of mac and cheese, and not some other object, is, as far as I understand, irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![xanthous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/53a042/32.png) [@xanthous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xanthous)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grocery-handling-in-the-time-of-covid/916397/68 "2020-07-29T00:46:26Z")
> [@RealityCheck71](#): > > Well, I was wondering how @xanthous partner/ housemates might feel about these procedures. Driving your wife up the wall is a downside consideration. 😘 My boyfriend is 100% on board with our process. The only time he got frustrated was when I tried to change the rules once to something slightly less extreme without going over it with him first because I was trying to make myself OK with something “lesser” (for several reasons: making it easier on us, trying to “feel” less excessive [didn’t work], feeling embarrassed at my level of precaution)- this was all early on, before we got settled into the process. Anyway, I check in with him regularly to make sure we’re still cool and ask if he thinks there’s any area where we might feel ok about scaling back. Other than considering collecting mail and packages sooner, he’s just fine with the process as is. We mayyyyyy consider a lesser thing for non perishables in the future (wiping down OR quarantining, not both- we float what-ifs all the time, but then look at each other and say, “Nah…”) Today we shared an apple that we purchased six days ago and only rinsed well today before consuming (we set the apples aside without washing them six days ago). Hoo boy, we’re really pushing the envelope!! 😂 > [@tofor](#): > > As the OP of the mail thread you mentioned, Yes, as I read your thread I hoped, “Someone please mention groceries…” and searched around a couple times for a new post on the topic, and finally figured I might as well fess up to my reality. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grocery-handling-in-the-time-of-covid/916397/69 "2020-07-29T02:16:10Z")
This is timely: [Hygiene Theater Is a Huge Waste of Time](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/scourge-hygiene-theater/614599/) People are power scrubbing their way to a false sense of security ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grocery-handling-in-the-time-of-covid/916397/70 "2020-07-29T02:23:14Z")
That’s the same article CookingWithGas [linked to upthread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grocery-handling-in-the-time-of-covid/916397/42). ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grocery-handling-in-the-time-of-covid/916397/71 "2020-07-29T03:38:56Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > The thing I don’t get is that they still won’t bag my groceries if I bring my own bags. My bags are probably cleaner than half the stuff they’re picking up and running across the scanner, but whatevs. (And maybe it’s the passive-agressive part of me that has decided that if they don’t want to bag my groceries, fine… But don’t expect me to bust my ass bagging them when there is someone waiting behind me in line.) I leave my bags in the car, tell the bagger to just put the groceries back into the cart, and then bag them myself when I get out to the car. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grocery-handling-in-the-time-of-covid/916397/72 "2020-07-29T03:51:35Z")
Yeah, that’s our approach as well. If it can’t stand a few days in the garage (~low 90s), then it gets wiped down and put up. We wipe the counters afterward and wash our hands. The only thing that isn’t getting wiped with disinfectant or left in the garage for 3 days or so is fresh produce, and it’s either washed prior to use, or peeled anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grocery-handling-in-the-time-of-covid/916397/73 "2020-07-29T13:54:13Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I wouldn’t have any qualms about cooking it immediately. But I might be careful to wash my hands after touching the box, and/or use a paper towel or something to handle it rather than touching the box directly. (Even that, I think, is probably unnecessary—but that’s “probably,” not “certainly.”) OK, then I would hope you find my grocery handling practices reasonable, i.e. newly-delivered groceries get set aside to self-decontaminate for a few days and hands get washed after handling those items. ---
**Author:** ![Trom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grocery-handling-in-the-time-of-covid/916397/74 "2020-07-29T14:15:35Z")
[https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/laninf/PIIS1473-3099(20)30561-2.pdf](https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/laninf/PIIS1473-3099(20)30561-2.pdf) Dr. Emanuel Goldman (Professor of Microbiology, Biochemistry and Molecular Genetics, New Jersey Medical School): > A clinically significant risk of severe acute respiratory > syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) transmission > by fomites (inanimate surfaces or objects) has been > assumed on the basis of studies that have little > resemblance to real-life scenarios. > … > I am not disputing the > findings of these studies, only the applicability to real > life. For example, in the studies that used a sample of > 10⁷, 10⁶, and 10⁴ particles of infectious virus on a small > surface area, these concentrations are a lot higher > than those in droplets in real-life situations, with the > amount of virus actually deposited on surfaces likely to > be several orders of magnitude smaller. > Hence, a reallife situation is better represented in the work of Dowell > and colleagues in which no viable virus was found on > fomites. > … > In my opinion, the chance of transmission through > inanimate surfaces is very small, and only in instances > where an infected person coughs or sneezes on the > surface, and someone else touches that surface soon > after the cough or sneeze (within 1–2 h). I do not > disagree with erring on the side of caution, but this > can go to extremes not justified by the data. Although > periodically disinfecting surfaces and use of gloves > are reasonable precautions especially in hospitals, I > believe that fomites that have not been in contact > with an infected carrier for many hours do not pose > a measurable risk of transmission in non-hospital > settings. A more balanced perspective is needed to curb > excesses that become counterproductive. ---
**Author:** ![RealityCheck71](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitycheck71/32/3493_2.png) [@RealityCheck71](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityCheck71)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grocery-handling-in-the-time-of-covid/916397/75 "2020-07-29T14:58:23Z")
Can you find any medical authorities recommending it? Because, I have heard rather explicit comments to the contrary ie. you shouldn’t worry about catching it from grocery packages. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grocery-handling-in-the-time-of-covid/916397/76 "2020-07-29T15:12:08Z")
We’re a grocery cleaning household. We have a decontamination pantry for shelf-stable stuff that we won’t need for a few days. Stuff we need sooner and fridge stuff gets put on a tarp and sprayed with a chlorine solution or wiped down with wipes. Maybe 10-15 minutes of effort. Even if it’s a total waste of time, it’s not that much time and it gives us a little more peace of mind. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grocery-handling-in-the-time-of-covid/916397/77 "2020-07-29T15:20:18Z")
But I also think many of the public sanitation actions are mostly a waste of time and give people a huge sense of false security. The environmental sanitation done by stores, transportation, gyms, etc. seems like it’s more to make the customers feel safe rather than providing actual safety. In crowded, enclosed spaces, the greatest risk is from airborne virus being inhaled rather than touching a contaminated surface. It doesn’t matter how sterile the surfaces of a gym are if it’s packed with people breathing hard and exhaling droplets into the air. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grocery-handling-in-the-time-of-covid/916397/78 "2020-07-29T16:28:51Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > OK, then I would hope you find my grocery handling practices reasonable, i.e. newly-delivered groceries get set aside to self-decontaminate for a few days and hands get washed after handling those items. IMHO it’s not unreasonable to do those things (with the caveats below), but it’s also not unreasonable not to do them. Caveats: If you’re doing those things instead of taking other precautions that experts recommend, that’s unreasonable. If doing those things causes you significant hardship or expense, it’s probably unreasonable to do them. If doing those things reduces your level of stress and anxiety, that alone may make them worth doing. But if it increases your level of stress and anxiety, that would make them unreasonable. If you’re taking those precautions with groceries but not with other items that enter your home from outside, you may well be acting unreasonably (or at least inconsistently). ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grocery-handling-in-the-time-of-covid/916397/79 "2020-07-29T17:55:51Z")
I don’t think inconsistent is always a bad thing. Risk is not all or nothing. I think it’s perfectly rational to select a small set of mildly or even moderately risky behaviors and to avoid others in order to limit total risk profile. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grocery-handling-in-the-time-of-covid/916397/80 "2020-07-29T19:53:10Z")
> [@Trom](#): > > [https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/laninf/PIIS1473-3099(20)30561-2.pdf](https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/laninf/PIIS1473-3099(20)30561-2.pdf) > > Dr. Emanuel Goldman (Professor of Microbiology, Biochemistry and Molecular Genetics, New Jersey Medical School): In your quote, it’s clear that the risk is not zero. He’s just saying that with limited attention that it’s more important to focus on social distancing because the risk is very low for contamination of objects but high for airborne transmission from others. That said, for any individual person, if you’re the person who gets it from an object, it doesn’t matter that you’re the anomaly. So as long as someone is already social distancing, reducing surface contamination is still risk reduction. > [@RealityCheck71](#): > > Can you find any medical authorities recommending it? Because, I have heard rather explicit comments to the contrary ie. you shouldn’t worry about catching it from grocery packages. It would be more helpful if you provided your cites for what you’ve heard. I’ve seen many headlines that say that surfaces aren’t contaminants, but upon reading the article more carefully, they’re not saying the risk is zero. Here’s an example. > **[No, You Don't Need To Disinfect Your Groceries. But Here's How To Shop Safely](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/04/12/832269202/no-you-dont-need-to-disinfect-your-groceries-but-here-s-to-shop-safely)** > > Coronavirus got you nervous about grocery shopping? We talked to scientists for their advice about how to stay safe at the store — and when handling food back home. But the title doesn’t reflect the actual contents. > [@](#): > > Rasmussen explains that the probability of getting infected from a contaminated surface is not zero, but it is fairly low. That’s because respiratory droplets would have to have landed on the exact spot on, say, a box of cereal that you are touching. And even then, you’d have to get enough residual virus on your hand to start an infection — _and_ you’d have to transfer that virus to your face. Bottom line: If you follow good hand-hygiene practices — washing your hands after unpacking your groceries, before cooking and before eating — then, she says, your risk is probably “very, very low.” > > As Aronoff notes, “Time is really on your side here.” That’s because as soon as the virus lands on a surface, it starts to lose infectiousness. “After 24 hours, the vast majority of virus is no longer infectious,” he says. And after 72 hours, he notes that research has found the virus is [trace](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(20)30003-3/fulltext?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) or[undetectable](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2004973) on most surfaces. So if you know that you’re not going to use a can of soup for two or three days, he says, just put it away, wash your hands and go about your day. And one more thing: Make sure to wipe down your countertops after you unpack, using a [household disinfectant registered](https://www.epa.gov/pesticide-registration/list-n-disinfectants-use-against-sars-cov-2) with the Environmental Protection Agency. Several of the articles I’ve read have a title that doesn’t accurately reflect the contents. Perhaps your sources are one of those. Most of the people in this thread who are taking precautions are following the guidelines set forth in the article of quarantining the items for 72 hours and washing produce. ---
**Author:** ![Trom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2020, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grocery-handling-in-the-time-of-covid/916397/81 "2020-07-29T19:56:06Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > In your quote, it’s clear that the risk is not zero. Of course it’s not zero. But what is the number? He’s saying it’s much closer to zero than most people apparently think. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grocery-handling-in-the-time-of-covid/916397.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grocery-handling-in-the-time-of-covid/916397.md?page=5)