# GropeGate is the worst thing that could have happened to this election. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 15, 2016, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gropegate-is-the-worst-thing-that-could-have-happened-to-this-election/768568 "2016-10-15T00:18:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gropegate-is-the-worst-thing-that-could-have-happened-to-this-election/768568/41 "2016-10-15T10:48:19Z")
Tell your brother that the Republicans he met are excellent specimens of Republican thinking: they think Mexicans and/or Canadians are exotic rarities and they think Donald Trump was winning before Gropegate. Both of those things are divorced from reality. They’re also wrong about the media and its role in all this, but it’s a more complicated scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gropegate-is-the-worst-thing-that-could-have-happened-to-this-election/768568/42 "2016-10-15T11:22:12Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Tell your brother that the Republicans he met are excellent specimens of Republican thinking: they think Mexicans and/or Canadians are exotic rarities and they think Donald Trump was winning before Gropegate. Both of those things are divorced from reality. I hope you’re right but that’s an incredibly arrogant statement. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gropegate-is-the-worst-thing-that-could-have-happened-to-this-election/768568/43 "2016-10-15T11:26:09Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > Donald is the Obergropenführer. Oh… that’s good. That’s VERY good!! You may win the Noble Prize for Literature next year. History won’t do what the OP says. History is academic and analytical. The media probably will, since a simplistic explanation makes for the best story. The GOP had a very viable candidate in Kasich, but the primary voters wanted Trump. Now they’ve got him. ---
**Author:** ![Poto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ab992/32.png) [@Poto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poto)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gropegate-is-the-worst-thing-that-could-have-happened-to-this-election/768568/44 "2016-10-15T11:35:09Z")
The groper in chief became a candidate because… [https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-10-13/mitt-romney-the-republican-who-might-have-stopped-trump](https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-10-13/mitt-romney-the-republican-who-might-have-stopped-trump) nobody else sensible ran. Romney barely gave it a thought. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gropegate-is-the-worst-thing-that-could-have-happened-to-this-election/768568/45 "2016-10-15T12:21:34Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > I agree, I’m just trying to point out that the reason he is being taken down by this is not solely because it’s what the media and Clinton campaign chose to take him down. He’s being taken down by it because if his own ego and narcissism. Also, apparently he wouldn’t let his campaign team do background research on him. Usually it’s standard for campaigns, so they know what skeletons there are and will be prepared for them, but Trump forbid his workers from doing it. I can understand why Trump would do that, because of his stupidity and ego, but I have no idea why anyone would sign up to work for that campaign. That should have been a massive red flag for any political operative. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gropegate-is-the-worst-thing-that-could-have-happened-to-this-election/768568/46 "2016-10-15T12:27:41Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > History _will_ remember all of the things Trump stood for. Blowjobs in a back alley? > [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Make America Grope Again This post has been Groped by the Gropist! ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gropegate-is-the-worst-thing-that-could-have-happened-to-this-election/768568/47 "2016-10-15T12:40:17Z")
I agree that it’s obscene, almost, that it took this to find something that would derail Trump. Compared to banning Muslims, abandoning NATO allies, re-negotiating the national debt, and killing the families of terrorists, this seems utterly mundane. But–and it’s a big but–this has been a good thing in some ways. I’ve have a lot of conversations with people over the last few days, and the gender divide has been dramatic. Men seem to be treating this as this incredibly aberrant behavior, and are shocked that anyone thought he could get away with behaving like this. Women are responding with all their own stories of how often this sort of shit happens, how easy it is for a guy to get away with low-key sexually assaulting thousands of women in his lifetime. Women, by and large, are not surprised. I just feel like this has actually been educational for a lot of people, and created this opportunity to discuss some important issues. I read an editorial about the man who was working as an editor for the People reporter who was groped by Trump. He said that if he’d known about the groping then, they would have probably just killed the story and moved on. They certainly wouldn’t have made the groping a story, nor encouraged the reporter to go to the police. He contrasted that to how they’d have reacted if Trump had punched the reporter, and how fucked up that thinking is. It was an interesting piece of self-reflection, and I’m very glad that we are having a national conversation about these issues. ---
**Author:** ![ThisIsTheEnd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thisistheend/32/4713_2.png) [@ThisIsTheEnd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThisIsTheEnd)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gropegate-is-the-worst-thing-that-could-have-happened-to-this-election/768568/48 "2016-10-15T12:41:16Z")
> [@arseNal](#): > > I don’t know if this sentiment has already been expressed in any of the many existing election threads. I think it deserves its own thread but if the mods disagree and want to merge it, so be it. > > GropeGate is the worst thing that could have happened to this election. Even before the bus tape surfaced, his chances were slim. We didn’t need this to get a Clinton win. > > If/when Trump loses (god help us if he doesn’t), he and his supporters will point to this scandal as the one and only reason he lost the election. And the media will basically play along and focus on it as well for years to come. > > Now, history will not remember that not enough of the electorate really wanted a big Mexican wall. > > History will not remember that not enough of the electorate thought that climate change is a hoax perpetrated by China for god knows what reason. > > History will not remember that not enough of the electorate wanted a blanket ban on all Muslim immigration. Or even a blanket ban on immigration from countries with “known terrorist ties”. > > History will not remember that not enough of the electorate believed that globalization isn’t really happening and just because he says so, that he can bring back all the manufacturing jobs and revitalize rural towns that were built around coal mines. > > There are so many things that this election could have shown to the world, about what most muricans really think, and that after all was said and done that we managed to make the right choice and eke out a win for the less evil guy. > > Instead, all anyone will remember 5, 10, 50 years from now, is that we didn’t want the guy who thought he could grab her by the pussy :smack: None of that stuff is going away. A non-groper will pick up the mantle on Jan 21. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gropegate-is-the-worst-thing-that-could-have-happened-to-this-election/768568/49 "2016-10-15T13:11:55Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > But–and it’s a big but–this has been a good thing in some ways. I’ve have a lot of conversations with people over the last few days, and the gender divide has been dramatic. Men seem to be treating this as this incredibly aberrant behavior, and are shocked that anyone thought he could get away with behaving like this. Women are responding with all their own stories of how often this sort of shit happens, how easy it is for a guy to get away with low-key sexually assaulting thousands of women in his lifetime. Women, by and large, are not surprised. I just feel like this has actually been educational for a lot of people, and created this opportunity to discuss some important issues. I feel like an equally common position among lots of men is “So what?” ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gropegate-is-the-worst-thing-that-could-have-happened-to-this-election/768568/50 "2016-10-15T14:15:36Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I feel like an equally common position among lots of men is “So what?” I think it’s baby steps forward. Many men won’t listen to what women are saying, but some will. And I think some men have realized that when they hear other guy’s “locker room talk” about how they can or will assault women, they’ll know now it’s not just necessarily talk. I think this has helped some men wake up to what’s going on, and that’s a whisper thin silver lining around the dark clouds of Trump’s candidacy. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gropegate-is-the-worst-thing-that-could-have-happened-to-this-election/768568/51 "2016-10-15T14:31:14Z")
I’d be surprised if there wasn’t another tape that surfaced before the election that overshadowed this last tape. It will probably be a racial slur. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gropegate-is-the-worst-thing-that-could-have-happened-to-this-election/768568/52 "2016-10-15T14:31:26Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > I think it’s baby steps forward. Many men won’t listen to what women are saying, but some will. And I think some men have realized that when they hear other guy’s “locker room talk” about how they can or will assault women, they’ll know now it’s not just necessarily talk. I think this has helped some men wake up to what’s going on, and that’s a whisper thin silver lining around the dark clouds of Trump’s candidacy. I get what you’re saying. I just wonder if what’s happening is just a schism that will echo for a long time. When the Rush Limbaughs of the world are decrying and mocking the idea that consent is the foundation for all sexual actions, that means something. Something terrible. I think the number of votes Trump will get could legitimize his positions and statements, though I’m hoping that he will end November with a loser smell and that all of his positions will be tainted by it even for people who might otherwise defend them. But I don’t know how likely that outcome is. This election has damaged us as a people. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gropegate-is-the-worst-thing-that-could-have-happened-to-this-election/768568/53 "2016-10-15T15:23:37Z")
I think it’s probably fair to say that there will be lasting damage from this election, but let’s be perfectly ducking clear what caused the damage. If you have an alcoholic child abuser in your family, getting people to talk about his misdeeds and horrible behavior will absolutely cause strife. The degenerate will make things miserable for everyone rather than acknowledge his flaws or what he’s done wrong. The response to this is not, “We should have never brought it up! Look how things got worse!” Denial is not a valid choice. While the horrible person is in his death throes and making everything worse for everyone around him, everyone else who hasn’t bought into his crap has a chance to grow as human beings. Repressing important issues would only stifle growth. There’s a thousand issues that Trump has brought up that could serve as an inspiration for growth. His racism could have been a spur to open a broader dialogue, but for whatever reason that didn’t have traction. His sexism and sexual assaults do seem to be starting a dialogue about what women face in this country - surely major improvements have been made in the last few decades, but men are kidding themselves if they think that women experience the workplace and even walking down a city street in the same way they do. I’m glad this came up. Not for the reason that it’s sealing Trump’s loss in November, though. That was pretty sure thing, I think. Hopefully this will destroy his businesses and take the rest of society one step closer to equality. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gropegate-is-the-worst-thing-that-could-have-happened-to-this-election/768568/54 "2016-10-15T15:34:07Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Denial is not a valid choice. While the horrible person is in his death throes and making everything worse for everyone around him, everyone else who hasn’t bought into his crap has a chance to grow as human beings. Repressing important issues would only stifle growth. I don’t think this is accurate when it comes to politics and social activation. Racists speaking up allows them to find each other and to gather in enclaves of racism. Sexists speaking up allows them to find each other and to gather in enclaves of sexism. Banded together, people are braver. Trump has allowed a lot of people to band together, to bond, over their racism, their sexism, and their violence. He has helped them find an identity. He has supported, nurtured, fed, and watered it. And, I would bet, he has created it in some people. Because as many people become dedicated to particular political viewpoints, they absorb the ideas that are otherwise tangential to those viewpoints to bring themselves into alignment with them. Bring that someone in with talk of a wall, and they will swallow the sexism. Give them something to latch onto and they will take the whole basket of deplorables. Ease them in and they’ll become true believers. The internet provides avenues for people to find likeminded others, and Trump has increased the power of the internet to help. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gropegate-is-the-worst-thing-that-could-have-happened-to-this-election/768568/55 "2016-10-15T15:46:34Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I’d be surprised if there wasn’t another tape that surfaced before the election that overshadowed this last tape. It will probably be a racial slur. I don’t think so. If I had a bombshell tape against Trump, I’d release it just as early voting was starting, not days before the election. The timing of this tape was perfect in that sense. Even better is that Trump won’t drop it, insisting on vilifying his victims at every event now. There are probably no more tapes or bombshells,and none are necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gropegate-is-the-worst-thing-that-could-have-happened-to-this-election/768568/56 "2016-10-15T16:09:57Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I don’t think this is accurate when it comes to politics and social activation. Racists speaking up allows them to find each other and to gather in enclaves of racism. Sexists speaking up allows them to find each other and to gather in enclaves of sexism. Banded together, people are braver. > > Trump has allowed a lot of people to band together, to bond, over their racism, their sexism, and their violence. He has helped them find an identity. He has supported, nurtured, fed, and watered it. And, I would bet, he has created it in some people. Because as many people become dedicated to particular political viewpoints, they absorb the ideas that are otherwise tangential to those viewpoints to bring themselves into alignment with them. Bring that someone in with talk of a wall, and they will swallow the sexism. Give them something to latch onto and they will take the whole basket of deplorables. Ease them in and they’ll become true believers. > > The internet provides avenues for people to find likeminded others, and Trump has increased the power of the internet to help. It’s not like the sexism and racism wasn’t there before, just it’s being more brought to light now. And the sexists and racists can find each other, but also everyone else can see them and point out how bad it is. Each woman who was alone and thought she did something wrong to bring assault on herself can see that she wasn’t alone and it wasn’t her fault. The sexists can find each other, but so can the survivors and allies. Also the loudest voices are not necessarily the most representative. I haven’t heard any conservatives repudiating Limbaugh, but I haven’t heard any defending or agreeing with him. I think there are some loud voices and a lot more awkward groans from people remembering terrible things they saw or heard and did nothing about. There is still a ton of progress that needs to be made. I’ve heard too many people who don’t seem to understand what Trump was saying was describing assault, or people who don’t believe the victims, but I think we’ve made progress from where we were before, and we’ll keep moving forward. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gropegate-is-the-worst-thing-that-could-have-happened-to-this-election/768568/57 "2016-10-15T16:23:46Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Trump has policies? 😕 > > I thought he was just saying what he thought people wanted to hear (more so than most politicians, that is). He’s [Stuart Best](http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0216280/)\* without a moral compass. \*A fictional character whose political campaign was backed by White Supremacists but ultimately couldn’t bring himself to agree with their platform. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gropegate-is-the-worst-thing-that-could-have-happened-to-this-election/768568/58 "2016-10-15T16:24:54Z")
> [@arseNal](#): > > I don’t know if this sentiment has already been expressed in any of the many existing election threads. I think it deserves its own thread but if the mods disagree and want to merge it, so be it. > > GropeGate is the worst thing that could have happened to this election. Even before the bus tape surfaced, his chances were slim. We didn’t need this to get a Clinton win. > > If/when Trump loses (god help us if he doesn’t), he and his supporters will point to this scandal as the one and only reason he lost the election. And the media will basically play along and focus on it as well for years to come. > > Now, history will not remember that not enough of the electorate really wanted a big Mexican wall. > > History will not remember that not enough of the electorate thought that climate change is a hoax perpetrated by China for god knows what reason. > > History will not remember that not enough of the electorate wanted a blanket ban on all Muslim immigration. Or even a blanket ban on immigration from countries with “known terrorist ties”. > > History will not remember that not enough of the electorate believed that globalization isn’t really happening and just because he says so, that he can bring back all the manufacturing jobs and revitalize rural towns that were built around coal mines. > > There are so many things that this election could have shown to the world, about what most muricans really think, and that after all was said and done that we managed to make the right choice and eke out a win for the less evil guy. > > Instead, all anyone will remember 5, 10, 50 years from now, is that we didn’t want the guy who thought he could grab her by the pussy :smack: Trump isn’t losing because of the Muslim ban, he’s losing _in spite of_ it, for reasons including his character defects. The Muslim ban is one of his most popular ideas, with support from about 20% of Democrats and 32% of people who voted for Obama last time around. it’s one of the elements of the Trump campaign that is here to stay, and isn’t going to go away with trump, so I think it’s good that Democrats don’t take a Clinton victory in 2016 as a sort of referendum on her immigration policy, because it isn’t one. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gropegate-is-the-worst-thing-that-could-have-happened-to-this-election/768568/59 "2016-10-15T16:28:11Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I hope you’re right but that’s an incredibly arrogant statement. It’s not an arrogant statement at all, especially not the part about Trump winning. Trump was not winning before GropeGate, no matter how much Trump supporters might have wished this to be true. This is not to say that Trump had, or has, no chance at all of winning. But the reliable polls, individually and in the aggregate, just about all showed him behind Clinton, and with a relatively small chance of winning in November. And when the Americans your brother talked to said that he could insult Mexicans with impunity, and Americans wouldn’t care, they were mistaken. Or, at least, they were projecting the feelings and beliefs about some Americans onto all Americans. Tens of millions of Americans—and not just people of Mexican background—were outraged when Trump referred to Mexican immigrants as rapists, and when he kept hammering on about a wall. Sure, there were plenty of Americans who loved it, but those people were, for the most part, precisely the types of bigoted assholes who fit **Merneith** ’s description. While it was somewhat satisfying to see Republicans abandoning Trump in the wake of GropeGate, it was also depressing, because the video really didn’t tell us anything about Trump that we didn’t already know. He had demonstrated in multiple ways that he was a misogynist pig, and if it took an audio tape of him actually advocating sexual assault to get people to realize what he was like, then those people are fucking stupid. As for the media, if Trump hadn’t received literally billions of dollars in free publicity from a media desperate for a good story to keep the viewers watching and the advertising dollars rolling in, he might never have even left the starting block in this campaign. For all their hostility to the media now, Trump supporters should at least acknowledge that it was the media who helped make their guy the candidate in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gropegate-is-the-worst-thing-that-could-have-happened-to-this-election/768568/60 "2016-10-15T16:31:16Z")
> [@arseNal](#): > > If/when Trump loses (god help us if he doesn’t), he and his supporters will point to this scandal as the one and only reason he lost the election. No, he won’t. That would be admitting that his actions had anything to do with his loss. He’ll stick with the ‘Corrupt Hillary rigged the election’ drum he’s already started beating. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gropegate-is-the-worst-thing-that-could-have-happened-to-this-election/768568.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gropegate-is-the-worst-thing-that-could-have-happened-to-this-election/768568.md?page=4)