# Gross abuses of the English language **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 13, 2003, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991 "2003-05-13T17:11:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![elfje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@elfje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfje)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/81 "2003-05-15T15:58:40Z")
and what about the double plural? fishes? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/82 "2003-05-15T17:00:31Z")
My favorite double-plural: Children. My understanding is that the original plural of “child” was “childer.” However, as the language changed, that no longer looked like a plural word to people, so folks pluralized it as “children.” Now a triple-plural is appearing. Folks don’t recognize “children” as a plural, so they’re pluralizing it as “childrens.” Good stuff! “Fishes,” however, is correct, according to my dictionary. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/83 "2003-05-15T17:05:45Z")
My favorite double-plural: Children. My understanding is that the original plural of “child” was “childer.” However, as the language changed, that no longer looked like a plural word to people, so folks pluralized it as “children.” Now a triple-plural is appearing. Folks don’t recognize “children” as a plural, so they’re pluralizing it as “childrens.” Good stuff! “Fishes,” however, is correct, according to my dictionary. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/84 "2003-05-15T17:27:43Z")
Isn’t it ironic? Don’t you think? (pointing to **DanielWithrow** ) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/85 "2003-05-15T18:25:06Z")
Yeah – guess I have a new favorite double-plural. Daniel with his double postseses. ---
**Author:** ![X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbe5ce/32.png) [@X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/X_Slayer_ALE)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/86 "2003-05-15T19:24:35Z")
The OP now made me wonder, who coined the phrase “To coin a phrase”? Evel Knievel can ride **on** the plane, but i will ride _IN_ the plane. Boss: JUSTIN! Do you know the statistics regarding the lates market research?! Justin: uuhhh … _I forget._ :smack: OH and listen to all these rappers and yound up and commers when the speak. How many H’s are there in Shtreet? and how do you spell “HEEYhh”? like “cum ober Heeyhh to muh sayde oda Shtreet!” I swear rap music and gangsta rap are making speaking stupid sound so cool… - “Have a nice day!”\* NO! I dont want to!! then there are the insults: FUCK YOU! either that means he really loves me or he’s really passionate about his gay love. BATSHIT!! ok this is just downright funny. MOTHERFUCKER! listen, what I do with your mom is really none of your business. ---
**Author:** ![Marc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8dc957/32.png) [@Marc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marc)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/87 "2003-05-15T20:21:43Z")
Two popular ones from my office: Folks who want to get more details on something will say they need to “flush things out.” Others who want to encourage someone to do something will say that they a trying to “incent” that person – as in, “How can we incent our customers to upgrade?” According to [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com), which someone referenced earlier and draws from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition (Copyright © 2000), [incent](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=incent) is now a word. For its etymology, AHD says that incent is a “back-formation from incentive.” Whatever. Back-formations probably legitimize a number of the words discussed in this thread. My big 'ol Websters 3rd Edition, on the other hand, omits incent. I’m for leaving it out, mostly because when I hear people say, “How can we incent our customers?” I hear, “How can we incense our customers?” and I’m not sure why we’d want to do that. And one more verbal abuse: pronouncing the word “picture” as “pitchure.” To stay sane, I’ve learned to sigh quietly and move on. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/88 "2003-05-15T20:25:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RealityChuck \* > \*\*No more than “military intelligence.” > > “fresh frozen” means freezing it immediately instead of waiting until the boat docks. That is an important aspect of freshness and needs to be indicated. > > “Jumbo strimp” describes the size of a type of seafood. Shrimp can come in several sizes, some larger than others. “Large shrimp” is certainly no oxymoron – it’s shrimp that’s bigger than the little pieces you find in Sau-Sea Shrimp Cocktail. “Jumbo” would be even larger. > > So it looks like you’ve left off the “oxy-”, too. \*\* Sometimes I swear… Perhaps you know that words have more than one related meaning? “Jumbo: an unusually large person, animal or thing” “Shrimp: 2. a small or unimportant thing”. Thus “Jumbo= large” Shrimp= small", thus “Jumbo shrimp” means under _those_ definitions “large small”. I am quite aware that “Jumbo shrimp” has a perfectly acceptable meaning in the seafood packing industry. :rolleyes: Oh, and “Fresh; 4 not preserved, as by canning, smoking or FREEZING;” Although I am also aware the FDA has a defined legal meaning for the term “fresh frozen”. Now, better oxymorons are “a deafening silence” and “a mournful optimist”. But in my large, fat wieghty dictionary- there is no meaning of “military” which is the opposite of “intelligence”. It’s a “joke”. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/89 "2003-05-15T20:30:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zoe \* > \*\*Since I often use the caption function when watching TV, I’ve noticed that no one spells _all right_ correctly anymore. It is commonnly misspelled _alright_. I guess they are confusing it with _all ready_ and _already_. How can you get a job writing captions if you can’t spell? > > \*\* Alright, you’ve lost this battle. “alright” is now an accepted usage, “altho” 😃 it is still “nonstandard”. Languages evolve. ---
**Author:** ![OldBroad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ed655f/32.png) [@OldBroad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldBroad)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/90 "2003-05-15T22:29:54Z")
**orientate** as in: Let me get orientated here so I know which way to turn. Has the same effect on me as fingernails down a blackboard. ---
**Author:** ![Lobelia\_Overhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/54ee81/32.png) [@Lobelia\_Overhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobelia_Overhill)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/91 "2003-05-15T23:00:45Z")
My mother was wont to rave about some floor cloth that she bought which was very observant … ---
**Author:** ![X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbe5ce/32.png) [@X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/X_Slayer_ALE)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/92 "2003-05-15T23:09:03Z")
Piqued…?? Is that what it is?? Oh my goodness gracious, is _my_ face red. 😃 heehee… Frankenstien created a Monster because of its size. Dracula is NOT a monster. …and you cant have a little monster. Not everything can be all right but it is alright to use this term this way and its spelled correctly as well. Is there such a word as Vaguer, as in _more vague_? ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/93 "2003-05-15T23:16:00Z")
Eh? You can’t have a little monster? What about Gremlins? Troll? Critters? Ghoulies? ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/94 "2003-05-15T23:44:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by X~Slayer(ALE) \* > \*\*Piqued…?? Is that what it is?? > > Oh my goodness gracious, is _my_ face red. 😃 heehee… > Frankenstien created a Monster because of its size. Dracula is NOT a monster. …and you cant have a little monster. > > Not everything can be all right but it is alright to use this term this way and its spelled correctly as well. > > Is there such a word as Vaguer, as in _more vague_? \*\* > [@](#): > > _American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition_ > **Despite the appearance of the form _alright_ in works of such well-known writers as Langston Hughes and James Joyce, the single word spelling has never been accepted as standard.** … \*\* Consequently, one who uses _alright_, especially in formal writing, runs the risk that readers may view it as an error or as the willful breaking of convention.\*\* Accepted usage but nonstandard? The term “monster” refers to a frightening, deformed or unnatural creature. The meaning of something very large is secondary. “Vaguer” is the comparative form of “vague”. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/95 "2003-05-16T01:02:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sionach \* > \*\*“You’ve got . . . (mail, etc.)” > > Dammit, you don’t “have got” mail, you just have mail. That little gem shows up everywhere & just grates on my ears (or eyes!). People don’t seem to understand how it’s incorrect, either - I remember _mumble_ years ago I had to educate my freshman english teacher (who actually tried to argue the point with me!). /sigh > \*\* Umm…your teacher’s right. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that usage, so far as I can see. The construction “have got” is perfectly OK, as in “have you got any change.” It’s more widely used in UK English, but Americans certainly use it, as your example shows. **X-Slayer** Do you also ride _in_ the bus, and not _on_ the bus? Me, I get on a plane, on a bus, on a ship, in a car, in a van. So much as there is a pattern, it seems to do with size, but prepositions are a bit unpredicatable in any language, and very often defy literal interpretation. Also, I say “shtreet” and I am neither a rapper nor a gangsta, and I have been saying it this way my whole life before the influence of said musical genre. Ya know, accents and urban dialects and all that. Get over it. And, yes, “orientate” and “conversate” are backformations from the words “orientation” and “conversation.” I must admit, as patient as I am on these matters, these words grate on my ears a tiny bit. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/96 "2003-05-16T01:15:42Z")
“Got” is one of those words that eloquent, erudite, effusive authors who like to use thesarui don’t like to use. You know, like “thing” or “it.” ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/97 "2003-05-16T01:22:40Z")
BTW, by that I don’t mean that the word is substandard or incorrect at all. It’s just that for the most part there are better words to use, so “real” authors use more precise words, that’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Lathe\_of\_Heaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Lathe\_of\_Heaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lathe_of_Heaven)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/98 "2003-05-16T04:40:35Z")
> [@](#): > > That reminds me, TWDuke. Some comedian - and darned if I can remember who - said there should be an “e” tax for excess usage of “e.” Dave Barry. > [@](#): > > So a place like Ye Olde Towne Shoppe would be in biiiiiiiiiiiig trouble. “In extreme cases, such as ‘Ye Olde Barne Shoppe’, the owner would simply be taken outside and shot.”–Dave Barry Grammar abuses that have been irking ME recently: The use of quotes as some kind of mutant intensifier. A sign saying > [@](#): > > Have a “nice” day used to make me wonder if 1) you were trying to be hip in an ironic, jaded sort of way, or 2) you were simply an idiot. These days, I don’t wonder–it’s usually the latter. Speaking of mutant intensifiers, I’ll second the rampant abuse of “literally”. “That movie was great! I was literally glued to my seat!” “Damn kids. I thought I took AWAY the superglue.” One I see on eBay all the time: “This item is sooooo unique!” Really? Where, on the scale of uniqueness, is it? Is it the most unique item on eBay? Is it the uniquer than the lesser items your competitor is selling? Has it reached heretofore unknown heights of uniqity? Gah. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/99 "2003-05-16T05:27:58Z")
“Have you got any change?” Why isn’t the “got” considered redundant? DrDeth said: > [@](#): > > Alright, you’ve lost this battle. “alright” is now an accepted usage, “altho” it is still “nonstandard”. If it is still nonstandard, then according to \*Webster’s] it is: “…not conforming in pronunciation, grammatical construction, idiom, or word choice to the usage generally characteristic of educated native speakers of a language.” Just because a word is in the dictionary or commonly used, it is not necessarily considered acceptable (standard). Thus, _alright_ is not _all right_. DrDeth: > [@](#): > > Languages evolve. No! Really?:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![doctordoowop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecc23a/32.png) [@doctordoowop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doctordoowop)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/100 "2003-05-16T06:26:25Z")
Between you & I 🙂 I despise “Joe invited Mary & I to the party.” Pronoucing height like hythe, & etc. like eck- sett -erra. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991.md?page=6)