# Gross abuses of the English language **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 13, 2003, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991 "2003-05-13T17:11:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Avarie537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/48db29/32.png) [@Avarie537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avarie537)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/121 "2003-05-16T18:11:05Z")
I despise the Hoosier-ism of using prepositions to end sentences. For example: Where are you going to? Where’s my book at? Who’d you get that from? What room is the TV in? Some of them are COMPLETELY superfluous; others are just in defiance of the rule. Yes, I understand that, “From whom did you receive that gift?” would be considered old-fashioned and clumsy by some, but dammit - it’s correct!! However, the addition of “to” and “at” is just plain wrong. Drives me batty!! ---
**Author:** ![rockle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/73ab20/32.png) [@rockle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rockle)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/122 "2003-05-16T19:13:54Z")
**Avarie537** , it isn’t just Hoosiers who do that. Many fine Pennsyltuckians - including huge chunks of my family - do the same damn thing. My favorite, though, is “the missing be” phenomenon, as in the following examples: ~ “The cat needs fed.” ~ “The rug needs vacuumed.” ~ “The plants need watered.” Um, say _what_? 😕 Those statements may be grammatically correct (although I doubt it,) but they just sound, as they say here in Philly, “ignant.” ---
**Author:** ![Moonchild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@Moonchild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonchild)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/123 "2003-05-16T21:07:43Z")
I turn into The Man when someone blows the your/you’re homonym. And, holy cow, much like using the term “ain’t,” I’m almost sure there it will soon be generally acceptable to say, “I could have went.” It seems almost that way now. Thank you, all, for sharing your knowledge about the English language. I learned a great deal by **perusing** this thread instead of just glancing at it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/124 "2003-05-16T21:22:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\*It wasn’t a well-established idiom until AOL made it. > > But you’re right. Therefore if AOL’s next slogan is something like “We am the best!” we should also let that slide, because who cares if it’s right or not, as long as it sounds okay. And it will sound okay if it’s drummed into our brains often enough. \*\* Are you seriously saying, “I’ve got,” or “You’ve got” wasn’t well-established until AOL started saying it? Pass the crack pipe, buddy! And if AOL’s next slogan is, “We am the best!” then it’s not going to take hold except in Bizzaro World, _because it doesn’t sound right_. You’re putting the cart before the horse. Grammar, like aesthetics, should be the art of discovering how things work. It shouldn’t be a legalistic system of telling people what they can and cannot say. People who don’t study language at all know that, “We am the best!” sounds wrong. People who don’t study language at all know that, “You’ve got mail!” sounds right. And if you’ve got a C++ mind and a tin ear for language, well, my condolences. It still doesn’t mean your grammar gripes are legit. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![godzillatemple](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/49beb7/32.png) [@godzillatemple](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godzillatemple)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/125 "2003-05-16T21:29:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DanielWithrow \* > \*\* > > And if you’ve got a C++ mind and a tin ear for language, well, my condolences. It still doesn’t mean your grammar gripes are legit.\*\* I’d say, “Right on, brother,” except for the fact that you used the same argument in favor of “I could care less,” which means I am now forced to disagree with anything you say… 😉 Barry ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2003, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/126 "2003-05-17T03:49:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DanielWithrow \* > **Are you seriously saying, “I’ve got,” or “You’ve got” wasn’t well-established until AOL started saying it? Pass the crack pipe, buddy!** Sorry, not into the drug scene, but if you are, that may explain your problems understanding the issue here. “You’ve got mail” established the whole “have got” crap as an idiom across the country. It was not prevalent throughout the country before then. It was only in certain pockets of the country - street language, rural language, and so forth. “You’ve got mail” legitimized the construction for many people, unfortunately. > [@](#): > > And if AOL’s next slogan is, “We am the best!” then it’s not going to take hold except in Bizzaro World, _because it doesn’t sound right_. No kidding. And neither does “You’ve got mail!” It sounds like something a third grader would say. > [@](#): > > You’re putting the cart before the horse. Grammar, like aesthetics, should be the art of discovering how things work. It shouldn’t be a legalistic system of telling people what they can and cannot say. Ah, so you’re in favor of anarchy in grammar? So that would mean: Sentences with no verbs Sentences with no subjects No capitalization No punctuation and so on. If it’s not a “legalistic system” (whatever that is, since nothing here has anything to do with a court of law) that tells people what they can and cannot say (and by this I can only assume you mean “tell them how to say things correctly,” since censorship is also not an issue here), then you have no rules at all and no reason for anyone to speak clearly. > [@](#): > > People who don’t study language at all know that, “We am the best!” sounds wrong. People who don’t study language at all know that, “You’ve got mail!” sounds right. Painting with a mighty wide brush there, pal. It may very well surprise you to learn that many people who don’t “study language” know perfectly well that “You’ve got mail” not only SOUNDS wrong, it by gosh and golly IS. And so they don’t say it. > [@](#): > > And if you’ve got a C++ mind and a tin ear for language, well, my condolences. It still doesn’t mean your grammar gripes are legit. Now we’re on to computer programming languages? Try to stay on topic. 🙂 Look, it’s not my fault you don’t know what you’re talking about. If you want to say “I’ve got mail,” please do - AOL does it, and therefore it must be right. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2003, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/127 "2003-05-17T07:37:49Z")
What about: _drug_ when you mean _dragged_ _draw_ when you mean _drawer_ _drawer_ when you mean _artist_ ---
**Author:** ![Rex\_Fenestrarum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rex_fenestrarum/32/7265_2.png) [@Rex\_Fenestrarum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rex_Fenestrarum)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2003, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/128 "2003-05-17T08:17:23Z")
My personal beef? People that use **per say** instead of **per se**. I always wonder what they’re thinking as they type out “per say”. What the hell is _that_ supposed to mean? For the record, **per se** is Latin for “through itself”. ---
**Author:** ![waddamaroon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/41988e/32.png) [@waddamaroon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waddamaroon)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2003, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/129 "2003-05-17T20:35:27Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **DrDeth:** _ > No- you maroon- I though I heard my name. Five years ago, the **Dallas Morning News** published an article about a soccer player from France named Zinedine Zidane. In the article, they mentioned that he was of Algerian “dissent”. ---
**Author:** ![waddamaroon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/41988e/32.png) [@waddamaroon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waddamaroon)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2003, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/130 "2003-05-17T20:45:53Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **UnwrittenNocturne:** _ > Can I ask that words like ‘behaviour’ and ‘colour’ please have the letter ‘u’ reinserted? **Merriam-Webster** refers to these spellings as “British variants”. I wonder if the UK version of **M-W** refers to these words as “American variants” when spelled without the **u**? ---
**Author:** ![Jaade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@Jaade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaade)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/131 "2003-05-18T00:00:07Z")
“Warshington” Umm…there is no R in Washington, stop saying that! Alternately, it amuses me to no end when people use the word fetish incorrectly. I have a fetish for baked chicken! Oh REEEEALLY?! ---
**Author:** ![godzillatemple](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/49beb7/32.png) [@godzillatemple](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godzillatemple)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/132 "2003-05-18T00:32:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > **"You’ve got mail" established the whole “have got” crap as an idiom across the country. It was not prevalent throughout the country before then. It was only in certain pockets of the country - street language, rural language, and so forth. “You’ve got mail” legitimized the construction for many people, unfortunately.** Hmmm… I’m afraid I’m going to have to second the whole “crack pipe” theory here. What _have_ you been smoking? Do you have a single shred of evidence or a single citation to back up such a ridiculous statement? The only thing that the AOL popularized was the actuial expression “you’ve got mail.” “Have got” as an expression (especially when used as a contraction such as “you’ve got,” “I’ve got,” and “we’ve got”) has been part of common speech for a very long time… Either you’ve been smoking crack, you’re too young to remember what life was like before AOL, or you don’t read very much. I’m almost 40, and all my life I’ve heard and read people everyday saying things like “I’ve got a headache” and “we’ve got a problem.” And I grew up in a major metropolitan area and hung around with educated people. I really haven’t got a clue what gives you the idea that this construction was somehow nonstandard before being popularized by AOL. Something tells me, though, that once your mind is made up no amount of logic or counterexamples will sway you. Which means, of course, that you’ve got a problem… Barry ---
**Author:** ![godzillatemple](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/49beb7/32.png) [@godzillatemple](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godzillatemple)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/133 "2003-05-18T00:57:21Z")
Oh, and speaking of citations, here’s what those wise guys at [Merriam-Webster](http://www.merriam-webster.com/wftw/01aug/081701.htm) have to say on the subject of “have got”: > [@](#): > > Although _have got_ first appeared in English in the 16th century, it didn’t excite much comment until the late 19th century. That’s when Richard Grant White labeled got superfluous. White’s opinion caught on—at least for some time with some commentators—but by the 1960s, the tide had turned once again. These days, as for most of its history, _have got_ is considered standard. Regards, Barry ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/134 "2003-05-18T01:12:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by godzillatemple \* > **Hmmm… I’m afraid I’m going to have to second the whole “crack pipe” theory here. What _have_ you been smoking? Do you have a single shred of evidence or a single citation to back up such a ridiculous statement? The only thing that the AOL popularized was the actuial expression “you’ve got mail.” “Have got” as an expression (especially when used as a contraction such as “you’ve got,” “I’ve got,” and “we’ve got”) has been part of common speech for a very long time…** My point is that it popularized the construction for the entire country, not just some pockets. After they started with that idiotic phrase, its popularity increased exponentially, even if you just count the dopes who pay for AOL. The commercials are everywhere, after all. I know “have got” was around before then and has been for a long time, but its popularity hit its zenith when that catch phrase was born. > [@](#): > > Either you’ve been smoking crack, you’re too young to remember what life was like before AOL, or you don’t read very much. I’m almost 40, and all my life I’ve heard and read people everyday saying things like “I’ve got a headache” and “we’ve got a problem.” And I grew up in a major metropolitan area and hung around with educated people. What was the extent of their education? No educated people I know say “have got.” It’s a vernacular phrase. Educated people who speak properly say “I have a headache,” which is what I always heard. I would be embarrassed to use “have got.” I’ll do my level best to ignore the (now two) insults, although it makes more sense for you to argue your point logically. Especially in this forum. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/135 "2003-05-18T01:17:51Z")
Thanks for the M-W cite. They usually know what they’re talking about, although I happen to disagree with them on this. If they saw it’s standard now, then I guess it is - I just don’t see evidence of that on an everyday basis. I’ll defer to them, though. They know more than me. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Joe\_Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Random)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/136 "2003-05-18T01:43:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\*No educated people I know say “have got.” It’s a vernacular phrase. Educated people who speak properly say “I have a headache,” which is what I always heard. \*\* Who says that educated people have to speak “properly” all the time? Now, very few people will say “have got” under normal circumstances. “Got” is almost always used after a contraction of “have”: I’ve got you’ve got they’ve got Similiar usage can be seen with “has”: he’s got she’s got The only time I tend to hear “have/has got” without the contraction is when emphasis is needed: You have _got_ to be kidding! She has _got_ to see this! ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/137 "2003-05-18T01:50:40Z")
I do hear that, but rarely. I think it probably sounds better with the contraction - that is, less “incorrect.” Still, I find myself eliminating the “got” entirely - “I have a headache” “You have to see this.” But I concede the argument. ---
**Author:** ![godzillatemple](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/49beb7/32.png) [@godzillatemple](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godzillatemple)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/138 "2003-05-18T13:02:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\*I do hear that, but rarely. > > I think it probably sounds better with the contraction - that is, less “incorrect.” Still, I find myself eliminating the “got” entirely - “I have a headache” “You have to see this.” > > But I concede the argument. \*\* What? It’s actually possible to win an argument on a message board? I’m sorry, I had no idea such a thing could happen… 😉 Barry ---
**Author:** ![Salty\_Captain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47774/32.png) [@Salty\_Captain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Salty_Captain)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/139 "2003-05-18T13:50:25Z")
I don’t know if anybody’s mentioned this already but the thing that really annoys me is when people say things like ‘more bigger’ and ‘more friendlier’. Surely bigger would do?! I keep hearing this on tv so i can’t tell them to stop it! ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991/140 "2003-05-18T14:28:58Z")
Well, in theory “more bigger” is possible. It just doesn’t sound right. Let’s say Product A is 40% bigger than Product B. Then Product C comes along and is 60% bigger than Product B. In this example, Product C is more bigger than Product B than Product A is. Pretty convoluted, and I bet most of the ads that say this on TV don’t mean this, anyway. They just mean something like, “more betterer.” 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gross-abuses-of-the-english-language/174991.md?page=8)