# Ground troops and heavy weapons **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 23, 2010, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-troops-and-heavy-weapons/561661 "2010-11-23T15:31:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-troops-and-heavy-weapons/561661/21 "2010-11-23T18:34:18Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > A medium MG (e.g.: M-240, M-60) will typically be carried by 2 people. An M-240 weighs 25 pounds. The spare barrel and cleaning kit must add about 10 pounds. > > A 7.62 NATO round weighs about 400 grains. The links weigh something like 40 grains. Infantrymen will better be able to say how many rounds are typically carried, but if we say 500 rounds, that means 30 pounds. > > So an M-240 with 500 rounds will weigh about 60 pounds for two people. That’s on top of whatever else they’re carrying. And it might be worth pointing out the 30 pounds of ammo will last less than one minute of continous fire. (Which is why real machine gunners --as opposed to action movie figures – are trained not to fire continously, of course. ) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-troops-and-heavy-weapons/561661/22 "2010-11-23T18:35:05Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > Is the M240 used by the IDF or were you not in Eretz Yisrael at that time? Thanks! The FN-MAG (M-240) has been used by the Israeli military since 1970 or so; it was the main squad-level machine gun until it was replaced by the 5.56mm Negev in the late 1990’s. It’s still used in weapons companies, on vehicles, in fortifications and so on. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-troops-and-heavy-weapons/561661/23 "2010-11-23T18:39:35Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > What would it typically be firing a 15 pound m-249, firing 15 5.56 rounds a second? [M-249, for reference.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-249) slightly higher muzzle velocity (3000 instead of 2850 ft/s), but 1/4 of the firing rate (1000 vs 4000 rounds per minute). Figure slightly more than 1/4 of the force I listed earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-troops-and-heavy-weapons/561661/24 "2010-11-23T18:45:40Z")
Nothing ruins a good movie, such as Predator, faster than unrealistic scenarios involving U.S. military weapons. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![FREQ\_FORCE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/fbc32d/32.png) [@FREQ\_FORCE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FREQ_FORCE)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-troops-and-heavy-weapons/561661/25 "2010-11-23T19:42:31Z")
Thanks, all. I’ve always been a bit curious as to what the theoretical limits of practicality were when it comes to big guns in combat situations, particularly from a military perspective. I kind of figured that the closest equivalent would be SAW gunners or the poor dudes who have to lug around the anti-armor weapons. I suppose this is what happens when you momentarily lose sight of the fact that you’re watching a movie about _fighting an interplanetary big game hunter in the jungle._ I found myself coming to the realization that you didn’t need an 8 foot alien badass to take this guy out, you just needed someone who was willing to hide for the 4 or 5 seconds it would take to blow through all that ammo. My suspension of disbelief continued to be sabotaged later in the movie when someone else picked up the minigun and unloaded it into the jungle for what seemed like a solid minute. Not that it doesn’t look badass as all hell, mind you. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-troops-and-heavy-weapons/561661/26 "2010-11-23T20:22:43Z")
The movie Commando makes the Predator movie look very realistic, and that considers the presence of the alien hunter in Predator. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-troops-and-heavy-weapons/561661/27 "2010-11-23T20:27:50Z")
> [@Philster](#): > > The movie Commando makes the Predator movie look very realistic, and that considers the presence of the alien hunter in Predator. There were more memorable quips in Commando, though. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-troops-and-heavy-weapons/561661/28 "2010-11-23T20:31:25Z")
Classic Ah-nahld dialog aside, Commando and Predator are classics that benefit by ignoring details. Add Rambo to the list! Cheesy dialog and use of weaponry. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-troops-and-heavy-weapons/561661/29 "2010-11-23T20:48:32Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > There were more memorable quips in Commando, though. That’s debatable - Predator just spread the quips around to more actors. And it had big pussy jokes. ---
**Author:** ![Telperion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telperion/32/509_2.png) [@Telperion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperion)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-troops-and-heavy-weapons/561661/30 "2010-11-24T00:00:11Z")
> [@FREQ\_FORCE](#): > > My suspension of disbelief continued to be sabotaged later in the movie when someone else picked up the minigun and unloaded it into the jungle for what seemed like a solid minute. Considering that the average movie revolver holds about fifty rounds, I’d say it’s pretty much to scale. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-troops-and-heavy-weapons/561661/31 "2010-11-24T00:29:20Z")
Of course, if it _were_ practical for a single soldier to carry and use a machine gun, why would we equip anyone with anything less than that? ---
**Author:** ![Labtrash](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/labtrash/32/528_2.png) [@Labtrash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labtrash)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-troops-and-heavy-weapons/561661/32 "2010-11-24T01:40:00Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > That’s debatable - Predator just spread the quips around to more actors. And it had big pussy jokes. Where do you think they _ **filmed** _ _Commando_? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-troops-and-heavy-weapons/561661/33 "2010-11-24T02:41:28Z")
> [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > Patently absurd. Horse pucky. [Gunny](http://michaelscomments.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/gunny.jpg) could do it with one hand! He did fire a water cooled Browning .30 from his arms on TV. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-troops-and-heavy-weapons/561661/34 "2010-11-24T03:45:33Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > In short, the MG guy from Hollywood is just there to look cool and has few if any real life counterpart. Who was the first Hollywood “heavy weapons guy” - the big goon with a huge gun and a bunch of ammo belts slung over his chest? I’m tempted to say it was Adam Baldwin’s character Animal Mother from Full Metal Jacket - was there an even earlier example of this cliched character? ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-troops-and-heavy-weapons/561661/35 "2010-11-24T05:37:50Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Of course, if it _were_ practical for a single soldier to carry and use a machine gun, why would we equip anyone with anything less than that? Depending on the thought process behind how you run your military, folks in leadership positions or other types of specialists might forgoe the heavy weaponry. Met one Captain who maintained that if he had to pick up a gun to shoot a bad guy, then he made a critical mistake earlier in the fighting, because his job was to take in the big picture and lead his troops. Alternately, some type of specialist (engineer, radio operator, etc.) might find that their own equipment weighs too much to combine with your standard issue 20mm action movie autocannon with 5 million round drum magazines. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-troops-and-heavy-weapons/561661/36 "2010-11-24T06:24:14Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > There were more memorable quips in Commando, though. Predator is a measurably better movie. I can prove it. Count the governors. Predator 2 Commando 1 ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-troops-and-heavy-weapons/561661/37 "2010-11-24T06:34:09Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Of course, if it _were_ practical for a single soldier to carry and use a machine gun, why would we equip anyone with anything less than that? A few reasons: First of all, not every soldier can be a machine gunner. There’s a certain amount of size and strength required. Second of all, soldiers have to carry other things besides machine guns and machine gun ammo - radios, mortars, rockets, stretchers, granade launchers, spare ammo and water, etc. Very few troops carry just their rifle and magazines in the field. Third of all, no matter how big and strong a machine gunner is, he’ll still be slower and less maneuverable than a rifleman, and much less efficient in close quarters battle (urban warfare). A good infantry unit finds a way to balance out its light and heavy troops. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-troops-and-heavy-weapons/561661/38 "2010-11-24T06:50:32Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Predator is a measurably better movie. I can prove it. > Count the governors. > Predator 2 > Commando 1 So how does Predator stack up against The Running Man? I think the presence of a real-life game show host boosts The Running Man up into the lead as a superior action film. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-troops-and-heavy-weapons/561661/39 "2010-11-24T17:02:28Z")
I was designated machine gunner during Basic Training, but it was because my Section commander was a bit of a jerk - I was not only the smallest, thinnest person, but also the only female. Thank you Master Corporal :mad:! During CAP (Phase 2 Infantry), we took turns as the machine gunner, same with being the radioman - but we split up the extra boxes of ammo amongst the group. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-troops-and-heavy-weapons/561661/40 "2010-11-25T01:40:40Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Who was the first Hollywood “heavy weapons guy” - the big goon with a huge gun and a bunch of ammo belts slung over his chest? I’m tempted to say it was Adam Baldwin’s character Animal Mother from Full Metal Jacket - was there an even earlier example of this cliched character? Rambo: First Blood Part 2 came out 2 years earlier, and had [this classic scene.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii5jR9uC1s0) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-troops-and-heavy-weapons/561661.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-troops-and-heavy-weapons/561661.md?page=3)