# Ground Zero Mosque **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 8, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-zero-mosque/595663 "2011-09-08T21:51:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pitcairnpete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@pitcairnpete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pitcairnpete)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-zero-mosque/595663/1 "2011-09-08T21:51:19Z")
Whilst I can not say whether or not this is going ahead, or it has been built or it has been cancelled I would like to debate how this is a good or a bad idea. I will play devils advocate to some and not to others on this matter. I personally feel that the actions of a few mis-guided/fanatical people that label themselves Muslim have in turn released a hell fire upon two factions within the middle east. Those that are listed in the terms of “insurgent” or “willful/unlawful combatant” and those that are inevitably innocent working each and every day but are unfortunate enough to share a city with these people. In short, whilst the attack on the world trade centre was relentlessly evil and merciless, attacking those that had little or nothing (depending on stance) as a result of the actions, the following intifadas throughout the middle east and constant fighting, more innocent muslims have died. If someone was to state that the whole area was to become a replica of Mecca and there was to be no memorial to those that lost their lives in the fires of 11/9/01 (its how we put it 😉 ) then it would be extremely absurd. Who disagrees with the sentiment of a mosque at ground zero and why? pcp ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-zero-mosque/595663/2 "2011-09-08T21:56:30Z")
You’re obviously new and not American (based on your join date and spelling), but just FYI, this has been done to death in multiple threads on this MB. Search and ye shall find. For the record, it’s not a “mosque”. It’s an Islamic Community Center (we have Jewish Community Centers all over the place in the US). There will be a prayer area as part of the center, but it’s main function is not that of a “mosque”. Secondly, it’s not at “ground zero”. It’s blocks away. Might as well get the facts straight. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-zero-mosque/595663/3 "2011-09-08T21:58:50Z")
Isn’t it telling, how the ebb and flow of this issue depends on which other political events are occurring. I believe the issue peaked at the last midterm election . . . then immediately stopped dead. Is there any point in resurrecting it, or in thinking you have a point of view that hasn’t been already covered? ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-zero-mosque/595663/4 "2011-09-08T22:05:26Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > (snip)Secondly, it’s not at “ground zero”. It’s blocks away. > > Might as well get the facts straight. More accurately it’s the Burlington Coat mosque, but that doesn’t have the same ring to it. I expect to see it back in the news around August 2012. ---
**Author:** ![pitcairnpete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@pitcairnpete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pitcairnpete)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-zero-mosque/595663/5 "2011-09-08T22:37:21Z")
Ah. Before I continue, excuse gram gaffs due to iphone use. Close this thread as i will look in to past ones. Bbc and sky have always called it ground zero mosque. The thread was to ask and debate exhibited feelings rather than debate the semantics of the issue. To be fair it was naive of me not to search for the topic … Oh and a dash of arrogance too. ---
**Author:** ![Orr\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ee59a6/32.png) [@Orr\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orr_G)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-zero-mosque/595663/6 "2011-09-08T22:41:16Z")
Welcome to the SDMB. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-zero-mosque/595663/7 "2011-09-08T22:45:16Z")
The “Ground Zero mosque” is kind of like the [Holy Roman Empire](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire#Name)–it’s not at Ground Zero, and it’s not a mosque. That said, the latter fact doesn’t strike me as particularly relevant–there are mosques in the United States; there are mosques in New York City; and there are [mosques in Manhattan](http://www.masjidmanhattan.com/). We have freedom of religion in this country, and people can build all the mosques, synagogues, churches, temples, gurdwaras, or freethought halls they want (provided, of course, that they obey various applicable and viewpoint-neutral laws regarding property rights, zoning, etc.) If a mosque were literally _at_ “Ground Zero” (instead of _near_ Ground Zero), I would object, simply because the World Trade Center was and is ([more or less](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_site)) owned by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which in turn is a government entity. Regardless of any alleged symbolism about the “victory of Islam over the West”, I would find it objectionable if an essentially public place (the World Trade Center) was _replaced_ by a sectarian building, whether it was a mosque or the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Twin Towers. But of course that isn’t happening. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-zero-mosque/595663/8 "2011-09-08T22:52:10Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > The “Ground Zero mosque” is kind of like the [Holy Roman Empire](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire#Name)–it’s not at Ground Zero, and it’s not a mosque. That said, the latter fact doesn’t strike me as particularly relevant–there are mosques in the United States; there are mosques in New York City; and there are [mosques in Manhattan](http://www.masjidmanhattan.com/). We have freedom of religion in this country, and people can build all the mosques, synagogues, churches, temples, gurdwaras, or freethought halls they want (provided, of course, that they obey various applicable and viewpoint-neutral laws regarding property rights, zoning, etc.) > > If a mosque were literally _at_ “Ground Zero” (instead of _near_ Ground Zero), I would object, simply because the World Trade Center was and is ([more or less](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Center_site)) owned by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which in turn is a government entity. Regardless of any alleged symbolism about the “victory of Islam over the West”, I would find it objectionable if an essentially public place (the World Trade Center) was _replaced_ by a sectarian building, whether it was a mosque or the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Twin Towers. But of course that isn’t happening. Though as I understand it, there was a mosque inside the WTC - or at least a prayer room (wouldn’t surprise me if there was a chapel in the WTC too). ---
**Author:** ![pitcairnpete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@pitcairnpete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pitcairnpete)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-zero-mosque/595663/9 "2011-09-08T23:03:56Z")
> [@Orr\_G](#): > > Welcome to the SDMB. 🆒 Fear not I am not peturbed by any means. I just have to put feelers out on subjects. I had always understood I brought a fart to a shit fight on this one but it is refreshing not to be bombarded by racist/bigotted rhetoric on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-zero-mosque/595663/10 "2011-09-08T23:17:16Z")
> [@pitcairnpete](#): > > I had always understood I brought a fart to a shit fight on this one but it is refreshing not to be bombarded by racist/bigotted rhetoric on the matter. Give it time. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-zero-mosque/595663/11 "2011-09-08T23:43:34Z")
I think it’s more or less accurate to call it a “mosque,” since it does have a prayer space that, according to what I’ve read, accommodates 2,000 people. There are plenty of giant “megachurches” all over the US that have movie theaters, basketball courts, swimming pools, exercise rooms, libraries, and all kinds of other stuff in addition to the prayer area, and nobody would say that those weren’t still churches. But it is certainly _not_ at “Ground Zero,” and the outrage towards it is totally misdirected. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-zero-mosque/595663/12 "2011-09-08T23:56:55Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I think it’s more or less accurate to call it a “mosque,” since it does have a prayer space that, according to what I’ve read, accommodates 2,000 people. There are plenty of giant “megachurches” all over the US that have movie theaters, basketball courts, swimming pools, exercise rooms, libraries, and all kinds of other stuff in addition to the prayer area, and nobody would say that those weren’t still churches. But it is certainly _not_ at “Ground Zero,” and the outrage towards it is totally misdirected. It’s an Islamic community center two blocks from Ground Zero. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-zero-mosque/595663/13 "2011-09-08T23:58:16Z")
The only reason this is an issue is because some people are _immensely_ stupid. That’s really all that needs to be said about it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-zero-mosque/595663/14 "2011-09-09T02:56:42Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > The only reason this is an issue is because some people are _immensely_ stupid. That’s really all that needs to be said about it. No, I don’t agree. The people opposing the community center are wrong, or more accurately misguided, but I don’t agree they’re stupid. ---
**Author:** ![fusoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecccb3/32.png) [@fusoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fusoya)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-zero-mosque/595663/15 "2011-09-09T03:35:15Z")
Being two blocks away in lower Manhattan is like being in two different states. There’s a CHURCH closer to ground zero (on Church St, no less!) than 42 Park Place is. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-zero-mosque/595663/16 "2011-09-09T03:55:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Secondly, it’s not at “ground zero”. It’s blocks away. > > Might as well get the facts straight. And it’s next to a porn shop, if this is now hallowed ground you’d think that would offend Christians more. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-zero-mosque/595663/17 "2011-09-09T06:29:20Z")
> [@pitcairnpete](#): > > Ah. Before I continue, excuse gram gaffs due to iphone use. Close this thread as i will look in to past ones. Bbc and sky have always called it ground zero mosque. The thread was to ask and debate exhibited feelings rather than debate the semantics of the issue. To be fair it was naive of me not to search for the topic … Oh and a dash of arrogance too. Thing is, the semantics are quite relevant to the issue, because they are used as emotional leverage by folks on one side of the argument. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-zero-mosque/595663/18 "2011-09-09T10:51:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, I don’t agree. The people opposing the community center are wrong, or more accurately misguided, but I don’t agree they’re stupid. Fair enough; but at least we agree that this _really_ shouldn’t be a debate. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-zero-mosque/595663/19 "2011-09-09T11:37:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, I don’t agree. The people opposing the community center are wrong, or more accurately misguided, but I don’t agree they’re stupid. I agree with you in that we cannot know, for instance, whether their measured IQ would be lower than a comparison group. On the other hand, I do believe that there is merit in the saying “Stupid is as stupid does,” so in this case I have no objection to the original characterization. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-zero-mosque/595663/20 "2011-09-09T11:46:17Z")
If they oppose the community center because they hold all Muslims accountable for 9/11, they’re morons and bigots. If they don’t hold all Muslims accountable for 9/11 but oppose the community center anyway, they’re assholes. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ground-zero-mosque/595663.md?page=2)