# Grr...Is my passport renewal going to be denied? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 5, 2005, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grr-is-my-passport-renewal-going-to-be-denied/324963 "2005-10-05T22:51:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tofergregg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tofergregg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofergregg)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grr-is-my-passport-renewal-going-to-be-denied/324963/1 "2005-10-05T22:51:35Z")
I just sent in my passport renewal paperwork yesterday, including my soon-to-be-expired but still current passport. Instead of paying for the pictures, I took careful pics with my digital camera, and printed them with a photo-printer to the exact dimensions required (2" x 2", face perfectly fitting in the example template). Today, I went looking for the processing time online, and in the [Passport FAQ](http://travel.state.gov/passport/guide/faq/faq_881.html) I found that it says, > [@](#): > > What pose should the photos show? > The photo should show a clear, front view, full face of the customer. The customer should be in normal street attire, without hat or dark glasses against a plain white or off-white background. The customer should have a natural expression, **mouth closed** , and eyes open and looking directly ahead. Photos in which the face of the person being photographed is not in focus will not be accepted. I added the bold to the “mouth closed,” because that’s what I didn’t do. I have a pretty toothy smile in the photo. Then, I found the following other link, that clearly shows a correct photo of a woman smiling: [http://travel.state.gov/passport/guide/quality/quality\_876.html](http://travel.state.gov/passport/guide/quality/quality_876.html) (it’s the third person down) So, I guess I’ll find out in six to eight weeks if my picture was accepted, but does anyone have any knowledge about how strict they are? (and no, I don’t plan on linking to my pic…). I have heard that Great Britain doesn’t allow smiling at all any more… -Tofer ---
**Author:** ![tofergregg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tofergregg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofergregg)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grr-is-my-passport-renewal-going-to-be-denied/324963/2 "2005-10-05T22:55:22Z")
p.s. The application itself doesn’t mention the mouth issue at all: > [@](#): > > TWO RECENT, COLOR PHOTOGRAPHS. Submit two color photographs of you alone, sufficiently recent to be a good likeness of you (normally taken within the last six months), and 2x2 inches in size. The image size measured from the bottom of the chin to the top of your head (including hair) should not be less than 1 inch and not more than 1 3/8 inches. The photographs must be color, clear, with a full front view of your face, and printed on thin paper with plain light (white or off-white)background. They must be capable of withstanding a mounting temperature of 225 Fahrenheit (107 Celsius). Photographs must be taken in normal street attire, without a hat, head covering, or dark glasses unless a signed statement is submitted by the applicant verifying the item is worn daily for religious purposes or a signed doctor’s statement is submitted verifying the item is used daily for medical purposes. Photographs retouched so that your appearance is changed are unacceptable. Snapshots, most vending machine prints, and magazine or full-length photographs are unacceptable. Digitized photos must meet the previously stated qualifications and will be accepted for use at the discretion of Passport Services. (Visit our website for details.) I suppose it does say to “Visit our web site for details,” but you’d think they might mention it on the form if it was really important. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grr-is-my-passport-renewal-going-to-be-denied/324963/3 "2005-10-05T23:03:27Z")
Your application for renewal may well be knocked back. One of my work colleagues had hers returned a couple of weeks ago by the Australian Passports Office because she was smiling in her photos. ---
**Author:** ![Neptunian\_Slug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce7236/32.png) [@Neptunian\_Slug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neptunian_Slug)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grr-is-my-passport-renewal-going-to-be-denied/324963/4 "2005-10-06T00:48:14Z")
> [@tofergregg](#): > > I just sent in my passport renewal paperwork yesterday, including my soon-to-be-expired but still current passport. Instead of paying for the pictures, I took careful pics with my digital camera, and printed them with a photo-printer to the exact dimensions required (2" x 2", face perfectly fitting in the example template). > > Today, I went looking for the processing time online, and in the [Passport FAQ](http://travel.state.gov/passport/guide/faq/faq_881.html) I found that it says, > I added the bold to the “mouth closed,” because that’s what I didn’t do. I have a pretty toothy smile in the photo. Then, I found the following other link, that clearly shows a correct photo of a woman smiling: > > [http://travel.state.gov/passport/guide/quality/quality\_876.html](http://travel.state.gov/passport/guide/quality/quality_876.html) > > (it’s the third person down) > > So, I guess I’ll find out in six to eight weeks if my picture was accepted, but does anyone have any knowledge about how strict they are? (and no, I don’t plan on linking to my pic…). I have heard that Great Britain doesn’t allow smiling at all any more… > > -Tofer Don’t wait six to eight weeks. There is an email address somewhere on that State Dept. page where you can ask about the current status of your application. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grr-is-my-passport-renewal-going-to-be-denied/324963/5 "2005-10-06T01:19:23Z")
My US passport, renewed in 97 or so, shows me grinning. My previous passport made me look like a drug dealer, so maybe they just thought it was an improvement. ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grr-is-my-passport-renewal-going-to-be-denied/324963/6 "2005-10-06T02:58:58Z")
The closed mouth thing is new. It has to do with Home Land Security and their facial recognition software. If all of the scanned faces have a similar expression, there will be fewer false reads. Thats what my husband’s uncle, who works for the FBI told us when we asked about the closed mouth rule. ---
**Author:** ![zagloba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/977dab/32.png) [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grr-is-my-passport-renewal-going-to-be-denied/324963/7 "2005-10-06T12:24:30Z")
Even without the use of facial recognition software, smileless passport photos are probably more useful for ID purposes. Most people aren’t smiling most of the time. ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grr-is-my-passport-renewal-going-to-be-denied/324963/8 "2005-10-06T16:08:13Z")
> [@zagloba](#): > > Most people aren’t smiling most of the time. That is exactly as I reasoned when I scowled for my driver’s license pic. If I show my license to a cop, it will look exactly like me! ---
**Author:** ![Obsidian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/51bf81/32.png) [@Obsidian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Obsidian)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grr-is-my-passport-renewal-going-to-be-denied/324963/9 "2005-10-06T16:59:04Z")
> [@vetbridge](#): > > That is exactly as I reasoned when I scowled for my driver’s license pic. If I show my license to a cop, it will look exactly like me! My best friend was grinning like a fool in her license picture (because it’s from when she was 16). People don’t recognize it as her unless she grins for them. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grr-is-my-passport-renewal-going-to-be-denied/324963/10 "2005-10-06T16:59:39Z")
> [@zagloba](#): > > Even without the use of facial recognition software, smileless passport photos are probably more useful for ID purposes. Most people aren’t smiling most of the time. An old boss of mine had the greatest Driver’s License ID pic I’ve ever seen. He has his blond hair kind of swept of “kramer style” and had the toothiest-shit-eating grin of all time. It was great.