# Grrrr. Restaurants that don't know the meaning of MED RARE **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 7, 2004, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grrrr-restaurants-that-dont-know-the-meaning-of-med-rare/244036 "2004-05-07T16:50:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jadis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@Jadis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jadis)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grrrr-restaurants-that-dont-know-the-meaning-of-med-rare/244036/21 "2004-05-07T18:53:01Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > JT, how many times has this happened to you? If it’s more than two, I suggest that you are just not good at ordering food. You know, I’ve noticed recently that in almost every Pit thread, there’s always at least one person who chimes in and blames the situation being ranted about in the OP on the person posting the rant. Why is that? Because I have to tell you, it’s really annoying as fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grrrr-restaurants-that-dont-know-the-meaning-of-med-rare/244036/22 "2004-05-07T18:54:32Z")
You know, you have two choices: 1. Continue on with your current method, and continue to get food you don’t want -or- 2. See if there’s an alternative way of ordering food that will actually accomplish the mission of getting what you want. > [@](#): > > When I’m plopping down just about fifteen dollars for my damn lunch the waitstaff and cook ought to know what the fuck medium rare means and if’n they don’t they should ask me to clarify. Bullshit. You damned well know that “medium rare” at the Sizzler could very well mean something entirely different than “medium rare” at the Steak Palace. If you want to gamble, fine. If you want to get what you want, the non-idiotic thing to do would be to actually ask, “what’s the cook’s definition of ‘medium rare’?” ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grrrr-restaurants-that-dont-know-the-meaning-of-med-rare/244036/23 "2004-05-07T19:09:42Z")
There a world of difference between telling me maybeb I’m ‘just not good at ordering food’ as if I mumble and use incorrect sign language and suggesting I change my approach. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grrrr-restaurants-that-dont-know-the-meaning-of-med-rare/244036/24 "2004-05-07T19:23:11Z")
> [@JuanitaTech](#): > > There a world of difference between telling me maybeb I’m ‘just not good at ordering food’ as if I mumble and use incorrect sign language and suggesting I change my approach. You’re going to have to point out where I suggested the first of these and not the second. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grrrr-restaurants-that-dont-know-the-meaning-of-med-rare/244036/25 "2004-05-07T19:34:29Z")
Are you serious? You know what, I was going to quote what you typed but I’m sure you’re more than capable of scrolling up and rereading what you typed. And if you’re not, Jadis already quoted you. Suddenly, you’re not so amusing anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grrrr-restaurants-that-dont-know-the-meaning-of-med-rare/244036/26 "2004-05-07T19:35:10Z")
I love steak. I mean, I _love_ steak. Paradoxically, this means that I now eat a lot less of it than I used to. A couple of years ago, I decided that I wasn’t going to waste time and money eating anything but really, really good steak. There are lots of other kinds of food I like, and I’d save my steak cravings until I could get to a good steakhouse. So no more Ponderosa (I’ve actually never been to one – not sure they have them around here), no more Sizzler, no more Tad’s, no more Flame-Broiled. I definitely want my steak rare. And I do know what rare means. And if an expensive restaurant doesn’t, well, that’s their problem, not mine. And if they don’t serve steak rare, their problem. A couple of years ago I remember going to a restaurant in Southampton, New York (which pretty much means it will be expensive and fashionable) that was reputed to have good steak, and ordering a rare steak. The waiter said “we only serve steak medium.” New York, as far as I know, has no legal prohibition against serving steak rare. Or even raw. So I and my dinner companions said, “thank you very much, we’ll just take the check for our drinks,” and left. The manager freaked. He ended up following us outside and arguing with us about how stupid we were and how they knew how to serve their steaks. I told him that if they had to overcook them, it must be because they bought sub-standard meat, and we left on that note. So now I only eat steak at steakhouses, which presumably know what “rare” means. And we’ve got some great ones here in New York. Peter Luger’s, arguably the best steakhouse in the country. Keene’s (which also has great mutton chops!). And several Argentine restaurants in Queens that know how to treat meat. The cut of choice in Argentina is the _entrana_, or skirt steak, which is the diaphragm muscle. It’s best served with a blood sausage and sweetbreads. And it’s best rare, of course. The upside of all this, besides the good meat, is that now I only eat steak about once a month, and my cholesterol has been reduced significantly. I win all around. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grrrr-restaurants-that-dont-know-the-meaning-of-med-rare/244036/27 "2004-05-07T19:42:05Z")
> [@JuanitaTech](#): > > Are you serious? > > You know what, I was going to quote what you typed but I’m sure you’re more than capable of scrolling up and rereading what you typed. And if you’re not, Jadis already quoted you. > > Suddenly, you’re not so amusing anymore. Nope, I just checked. Nowhere did I suggest that you mumble or use incorrect sign language. Perhaps you’re reading a different thread? ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grrrr-restaurants-that-dont-know-the-meaning-of-med-rare/244036/28 "2004-05-07T19:42:06Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Bullshit. You damned well know that “medium rare” at the Sizzler could very well mean something entirely different than “medium rare” at the Steak Palace. Then the establishments are fucked. **Roland Orzabal** ’s list is pretty much dead on accurate in my experiences at fine restaurants. If a cook thinks “medium rare” is grey throughout, than he/she’s an ass who should go back to bussing tables because he/she won’t be getting _anyone’s_ order right. Some customers truthfully do not know what the difference is. But in the case of a educated customer like the OP, who knows what a rare or medium rare steak is supposed to be – there should be no surprises. If I’m in a clothing store and ask the clerk to get me a shirt that’s blue and he brings me a red one, there is no bloody way I’m going to stand around asking him “so, how do _you_ define ‘blue’?..” ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grrrr-restaurants-that-dont-know-the-meaning-of-med-rare/244036/29 "2004-05-07T19:42:33Z")
Oddly, when I order steaks medium rare, I always get it that way, must be a California thing. However this is one instance where I get to blame you fellow Dopers for steering me wrong. I went Asheville a couple of years back and encountered Fudruckers and I loved it. It was the only place I’ve ever ordered a hamburger out side of my kitchen that I can get a hmaburger the way I like it, medium rare. Unfortunately somebody on the board pointed out that there was Fudruckers down the road from me. The fuckers can only make them medium and above :mad: GRRR!!! ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grrrr-restaurants-that-dont-know-the-meaning-of-med-rare/244036/30 "2004-05-07T19:46:27Z")
I prefer my steak on the rare side, but not raw, and I’ve had reasonable luck with most places… of course, I don’t go out and order steak all THAT often, so it could just be luck of the draw. In his book **Kitchen Confidential** , chef Anthony Bourdain describes a category of meat called “save for well done”. This is meat that is so poor quality (the bad end of the cut, full of gristle, a few days “off”, whatever), that the only way the restaraunt can sell it and recoup its investment is to pass it off on someone who orders meat “well done”, which means that it can be charred out of all recognition. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grrrr-restaurants-that-dont-know-the-meaning-of-med-rare/244036/31 "2004-05-07T19:49:41Z")
> [@Roland Orzabal](#): > > Medium Rare, but make sure it’s nice and bloody I had a burger like that from [King Street Blues](http://www.kingstreetblues.com/) the other night. Not that I minded, I did order medium rare after all. > [@jayjay](#): > > I can’t even eat chicken if it’s not well, well cooked. That’s how you’re _supposed_ to eat chicken. Eating undercooked chicken is just asking for food poisoning. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grrrr-restaurants-that-dont-know-the-meaning-of-med-rare/244036/32 "2004-05-07T19:50:13Z")
> [@Eats\_Crayons](#): > > Then the establishments are fucked. Indeed they are. In fact, the OP perfectly proves that point. “Medium rare” SHOULD be the exact same, regardless of what restaurant you walk into. But it’s not. And the OP knows that, per her experience. But she STILL orders the same way, and STILL gets the wrong food. > [@](#): > > Some customers truthfully do not know what the difference is. But in the case of a educated customer like the OP, who knows what a rare or medium rare steak is supposed to be – there should be no surprises. “Should” is the operative word here. The neighbor’s dog SHOULD be friendly. But if it has bitten me the last 5 times I pet it, you can bet I’m not going to pet it again. > [@](#): > > If I’m in a clothing store and ask the clerk to get me a shirt that’s blue and he brings me a red one, there is no bloody way I’m going to stand around asking him “so, how do _you_ define ‘blue’?..” I believe that perfectly agrees with my suggestion of ordering by color. If the waiter can’t get his colors right, then I’m going to have a very strong argument for getting my meal comped. If I order it “medium rare” and it comes back medium, the restaurant can still argue that their definition of medium rare is “grey” and that I should have clarified that point. If I order it “pink” and it comes back anything but pink, there’s is absolutely no room for confusion (or so I would hope). “I want it pink” - about as objective an order as possible “I want it medium rare” - unfortunately subjective, room for confusion ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grrrr-restaurants-that-dont-know-the-meaning-of-med-rare/244036/33 "2004-05-07T20:02:07Z")
Speaking of culinary blasphemy, > [@Stuffy](#): > > I went Asheville a couple of years back and encountered Fudruckers and I loved it. :eek: You came all the way from California to our little town of superb restaurants, and instead of going to Heiwa Shokudo or Vincenzo’s or Sorrento’s or The Noodle Shop or The Laughing Seed or Asheville Pizza and Brewing or The Flying Frog or Jerusalem Garden or Mother India or Savoy or Tupelo Honey or Zambra’s or Burgermeisters, you went to Fuddruckers? What the hell’s wrong with you?! (Granted, I don’t eat red meat and so I have no idea where to get good burgers in this town. But still!) Daniel ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grrrr-restaurants-that-dont-know-the-meaning-of-med-rare/244036/34 "2004-05-07T20:14:04Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Nope, I just checked. Nowhere did I suggest that you mumble or use incorrect sign language. Perhaps you’re reading a different thread? Oh, I see. I thought you were asking me to point out where you suggested I’m just not good at ordering food. I hear ya, LMM. I’ve never dined at the cheaper establishments because I a firm believer in the notion that you get what you pay for. There’s a restaurant in the building in which I work called Windows. It’s attached to the Renaissance hotel and it’s an upscale establishment. They’ve fucked up my burger twice in the last three months. Twice! The first time I was dining with someone for whom time wasn’t that big of an issue so I sent it back and got back a burger who’s blood pressure was just starting to drop. The second time I was with a secretary and they only get an hour for lunch. I didn’t want to chance it so I ate about half of it. Then there was the Japanese steakhouse incident, then a t-bone at Shula’s. _Shula’s_ for pete’s sake! They should know better! I will say, though, they handled it quite nicely and very professionally. And then there was today. The day’s looking up, though. Mr. Tech says he’ll grill a couple of t-bones for us tonight. I called home and here’s what I said: Me: How do you plan on cooking those steaks? Him: What do you mean? On the grill… Me: No, are you going to cook them medium, well or what? Him: \ I’m going to cook them rare, like I always do, girl. Me: Your concept of rare may differ from mine. Cook 'em red, please. Him: What the fuck is red? Me: It’s the new rare! Him: Uh, I gotta go. Bye. \ ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grrrr-restaurants-that-dont-know-the-meaning-of-med-rare/244036/35 "2004-05-07T20:52:09Z")
I think for once this is something that is the fault of the consumer in general. Too many people will expect a rare or medium rare steak to be cooked so that their is no bloodyness left. These people also consider any blood in the steak to be a mortal attack on their health and complain as if they had been served raw chicken. Any establishment I don’t know well, I will ask the waiter to explain what the steak will be like if served medium rare or rare, and then choose according to the waiters description. Another good method is to request the steak ‘bloody’ which is far clearer discriptively than the word rare, and tells the waiter that you do expect blood when you cut into the steak. Mind you there are also a large number of places that just are not consistant in how they serve meat. If you ask for rare every day for a week, you’ll get everything from raw to medium-well done over those days. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grrrr-restaurants-that-dont-know-the-meaning-of-med-rare/244036/36 "2004-05-07T21:03:08Z")
I have to admit that I am confused here. **JT** says she likes meat that is very rare, almost to the point of being raw, yet she orders it medium rare. And then she is dissapointed when the steak is served cooked more than she wants? Am I clear on the OP? ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grrrr-restaurants-that-dont-know-the-meaning-of-med-rare/244036/37 "2004-05-07T21:14:28Z")
I like prefer them cooked rare but it has been my experience no one gets rare right. Consequently at home I cook them rare but when I’m out, I order them medium rare. Ever since I switched to ordering medium rare when dining out, I’ve been pretty much problem-free. Sure an order gets overcooked here and there but the ratio’s been heavily in favor of my medium rare orders getting cooked correctly than not. Until recently. Very recently. They’ve been ranging to medium to _well done_! The occasional overcooking I can forgive. Five times _in a row_ is just too much! ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grrrr-restaurants-that-dont-know-the-meaning-of-med-rare/244036/38 "2004-05-07T21:24:35Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Speaking of culinary blasphemy, > > :eek: You came all the way from California to our little town of superb restaurants, and instead of going to Heiwa Shokudo or Vincenzo’s or Sorrento’s or The Noodle Shop or The Laughing Seed or Asheville Pizza and Brewing or The Flying Frog or Jerusalem Garden or Mother India or Savoy or Tupelo Honey or Zambra’s or Burgermeisters, you went to Fuddruckers? What the hell’s wrong with you?! > > (Granted, I don’t eat red meat and so I have no idea where to get good burgers in this town. But still!) > > Daniel You’re absoulutely right, I loved every dining experience I had in Asheville, including a chinese place that I was dubious about, though I only hit about half your list there. I didn’t even want a hamburger that day based on past experience, but my Mom insisted that Fudruckers was different. I’m just bitching because I assume California has that rule mentioned above while NC apparently does not. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grrrr-restaurants-that-dont-know-the-meaning-of-med-rare/244036/39 "2004-05-07T21:32:27Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > “I want it medium rare” - unfortunately subjective, room for confusion Actually this is not correct. Any well trained chef or knowledgable amateur knows what the terms mean. They have a standardized meaning in the culinary world. There is no room for confusion, only error on the part of the cooks who fuck it up. I ordered Prime Rib, medium rare, at an _Outback Steakhouse_ in Georgia. The waiter warned me that Prime Rib “comes pink”. I was shocked that he thought he needed to tell me that. Apparently, though, enough customers had complained that the meat was pink that they’ve taken to informing the idiots beforehand. Of course Prime Rib is pink. That’s the whole point of slow roasting. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2004, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grrrr-restaurants-that-dont-know-the-meaning-of-med-rare/244036/40 "2004-05-07T21:40:25Z")
There are only 5 grades of cooking meat, and there is only one way of getting it right. Pinch the pad of flesh at the base of your left thumb between the index finger and thumb of the your right hand. That is the texture of blue steak. Touch your index finger to the thumb on your left hand, to make a circle, pinch the pad of flesh at the base of this thumb again. This is rare. Repeat making the circle with the middle finger instead of the index. That is medium rare. Ring finger=medium Pinkie= well done. Blue= seared on each side, raw inside (1 minute each side for sirloin, 3 minutes for fillet) Rare= brown on the outisde, red inside (2 mins sirloin, 5 fillet) Medium rare= brown outside, ring of pink, red in the centre (3 sirloin, 6 fillet) Medium= brown, pink in the centre (4 sirloin, 7 fillet) Well-done= brown all the way through (5 sirloin, 8-9 fillet) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grrrr-restaurants-that-dont-know-the-meaning-of-med-rare/244036.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grrrr-restaurants-that-dont-know-the-meaning-of-med-rare/244036.md?page=3)