# Grumpy old luddites around here
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grumpy-old-luddites-around-here/1016701
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [April 6, 2025, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grumpy-old-luddites-around-here/1016701 "2025-04-06T16:01:08Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 6
### Author:  [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2025, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grumpy-old-luddites-around-here/1016701/101 "2025-04-08T18:26:13Z")
Another phone gripe: every so often my phone informs me that it needs to install an upgrade. The first thing I need to do after the upgrade is installed is uninstall the games that were installed along with the upgrade.
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### Author:  [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2025, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grumpy-old-luddites-around-here/1016701/102 "2025-04-08T18:27:31Z")
Well, ask if these old luddites have bought major appliances or outdoor equipment (snow blowers or riding lawn mowers) or a new big screen TV. I think a substantial number have while balking at new computers.
Personally I always buy used computers because of the question of what would happen if it breaks? Now when it breaks and I can’t diagnose and fix the problem (the last problem being a bad power supply which I replaced) I simply throw it in the garbage and buy another used computer ($200 or so). But if I had $500 to $1,000 tied up in a computer I have to find a specialist to look at it with their high fees, wonder if I should hundreds on repairs…
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2025, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grumpy-old-luddites-around-here/1016701/103 "2025-04-08T18:36:25Z")
> [@PastTense](#):
>
> Well, ask if these old luddites have bought major appliances or outdoor equipment (snow blowers or riding lawn mowers) or a new big screen TV.
The ones that I am specifically talking about, who are on limited incomes? I bet that most of them are _not_ buying those things.
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### Author:  [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2025, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grumpy-old-luddites-around-here/1016701/104 "2025-04-08T18:36:32Z")
We just cleaned the roof and gutters, the house is about to be painted, and we’re getting roof replacement estimates in the tens of thousands. I drive a 2008 compact. We need new flooring, a new dishwasher, and new countertops. We’re on a fixed income, our retirement investments have dropped to the point where I’ll need to get a scutwork job if this keeps up, and gas is $0.30 more a gallon than it was last week. So yeah, this isn’t a wonderfully solvent time to replace a laptop that works well.
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2025, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grumpy-old-luddites-around-here/1016701/105 "2025-04-08T18:39:51Z")
> [@LurkMeister](#):
>
> The first thing I need to do after the upgrade is installed is uninstall the games that were installed along with the upgrade.
I have never had a phone that does such things. What the heck sort of phone do you have and where (as in which store) are these games coming from? I’d blame malware in the absence of another explanation.
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### Author:  [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2025, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grumpy-old-luddites-around-here/1016701/106 "2025-04-08T18:48:04Z")
> [@PastTense](#):
>
> Well, ask if these old luddites have bought major appliances
Nope. I’ve lived here about 15 years and all the appliances here came with the house and work just fine.
> [@PastTense](#):
>
> or outdoor equipment (snow blowers or riding lawn mowers)
“Riding lawn mowers”? What are you, a Texas rancher? I have an electric lawn mower that works just fine (I suppose a squirrel or small dog could ride on it) but I choose to pay a kid to mow my lawn because I’m old and he’s not. And he can use the money. That doesn’t make me a Luddite. I also pay Snowplow Guy to keep my driveway clear, in that case mainly because I’d prefer not to drop dead of a heart attack.
> [@PastTense](#):
>
> or a new big screen TV
Again, nope. Because, why? I have a nice 46" Sony that I bought probably ten years ago or more **that I turn on probably less than once a month**. Know why? Because I despise commercial TV, and there’s rarely there anything worth watching, and the fucking commercials “introducing …” totally drive me nuts.
What do I do instead? I watch movies and commercial-free TV shows on my tablet, which looks great due to my near-sightedness, usually comfortably in bed, streaming or with hundreds of hours preloaded on my 256GB SD card. Yeah, I’m totally a Luddite! 🙄
> [@PastTense](#):
>
> Personally I always buy used computers because of the question of what would happen if it breaks? Now when it breaks and I can’t diagnose and fix the problem (the last problem being a bad power supply which I replaced) I simply throw it in the garbage and buy another used computer ($200 or so).
That’s fine if that’s your approach to computing. But as an alleged Luddite, I’m much more attached to my computing ecosystem. To me, what you’re saying is “when I look for a home, I buy the cheapest shack that I can find, because if there’s something I don’t like about it, I can just burn it down and move somewhere else”.
No criticism intended, I just think our values are different. But my point really has been that I’m the farthest thing from a Luddite because I **greatly value** my computing ecosystem. I’m not willing to just throw it out every time something new comes along.
Once again, for everyone intent on jumping on this Luddite, for fuck’s sake **I have a goddam Windows 11 computer**. I just don’t like it. And so, for many reasons, it’s not my main everyday computer.
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### Author:  [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2025, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grumpy-old-luddites-around-here/1016701/107 "2025-04-08T18:49:25Z")
A Samsung Galaxy A03S running Android 13. I think the updates come from Google Play; it’s been a while since I’ve gotten an update notice, so I’m not sure.
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### Author:  [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2025, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grumpy-old-luddites-around-here/1016701/108 "2025-04-08T18:52:08Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#):
>
> Actually, Adobe takes great pains to avoid copyright issues in their algorithms. You can’t generate Albert Einstein’s face, for example. They also prohibit image generation for child porn, bloody and gory scenes, etc. For a time the Bitcoin symbol was copyrighted, and wasn’t available in their stock images or text-to-image. Then it went public domain and everything was copacetic.
To avoid hijacking this thread I’d say look at this one. But I was talking about the input to the AI system not the output.
> [@I'm missing something about AI training](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-missing-something-about-ai-training/1014781):
>
> Okay, I would like someone to show me the “important” distinctions between AI learning by analyzing existing music, and a human who listens to the same music and gets inspired to sound like their heroes. Surely it can’t be the speed with which AI will learn vs the speed a human picks up on stylistic nuances of artists?
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### Author:  [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2025, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grumpy-old-luddites-around-here/1016701/109 "2025-04-08T19:23:08Z")
> [@griffin1977](#):
>
> No, we aren’t stealing all this copyrighted work when we download them and encode them on our server, we are just ‘training’ our AI so it can be inspired to create new work
which brings up the interesting question whether using a copyrighted work to train AI is a fair use exception to copyright infringement. I think the jury is still (literally) still out on that question.
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### Author:  [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2025, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grumpy-old-luddites-around-here/1016701/110 "2025-04-08T19:25:08Z")
> [@wolfpup](#):
>
> > [@PastTense](#):
> >
> > Well, ask if these old luddites have bought major appliances
>
> Nope. I’ve lived here about 15 years and all the appliances here came with the house and work just fine.
Sorry, memory lapse. I did buy a new washing machine. I’d forgotten about that – I think it was about 8 years ago. But I stand by everything else I’ve said.
But I wonder if there’s a moral in that story. The original washing machine was a super-fancy LG front-loader with 45,643,365 different features and settings. It could do everything. It probably ran Windows 11. And then it barfed and stopped working.
I got a low-tech basic Maytag top-loader and it’s been working just fine. (It’s hi-effiency so uses minimal water and HE detergent, but still, just a basic washer.) And it’s been working ever since.
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### Author:  [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2025, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grumpy-old-luddites-around-here/1016701/111 "2025-04-08T19:43:26Z")
> [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#):
>
> which brings up the interesting question whether using a copyrighted work to train AI is a fair use exception to copyright infringement.
In the words of the mother of parliaments I refer the Honorable Gentleperson to my previous response;)
> [@I'm missing something about AI training](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/im-missing-something-about-ai-training/1014781/267):
>
> So OpenAI’s Sam Altman has urged Trump intervene in this very matter. Using the ol’ Red China bogeyman card (“if you don’t let us copy all these people’s work then China will take over!”) OpenAI is hoping that Donald Trump’s AI Action Plan, due out this July, will settle copyright debates by declaring AI training fair use—paving the way for AI companies’ unfettered access to training data that OpenAI claims is critical to defeat China in the AI race. Currently, courts are mulling whether AI…
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### Author:  [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2025, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grumpy-old-luddites-around-here/1016701/112 "2025-04-08T19:46:07Z")
> [@Smapti](#):
>
> I believe the preferred term these days is “enshittification”.
A lost fight for me, but man does that term just make me cringe. Like it was mildly humorously clever once and just sounded tired every time since. My cross to bear since it keeps getting used
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### Author:  [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2025, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grumpy-old-luddites-around-here/1016701/113 "2025-04-08T19:46:54Z")
> [@wolfpup](#):
>
> “Riding lawn mowers”? What are you, a Texas rancher? I have an electric lawn mower that works just fine
Wow, I’m feeling like R. Waldo Fucking Emerson here! I’ve got a manual (“Reel”? Not sure why they call it that) mower, and manual snow shovels. And up here in the Tundra, that’s a workout.
Another workout is my bike. My car has barely moved in a month, and I get out of big errands (“Sorry, hon, I can pick up groceries with my panniers, but you’ll have to get the softener salt in your Bulgemobile™…”)
[ ](https://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s325/veedubyalarry/scan0004.jpg)
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### Author:  [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2025, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grumpy-old-luddites-around-here/1016701/114 "2025-04-08T19:54:59Z")
> [@Jophiel](#):
>
> A lost fight for me, but man does that term just make me cringe. Like it was mildly humorously clever once and just sounded tired every time since.
As with gaslighting and many other examples, it started out as a useful term that succinctly described something that hadn’t been described before (namely how the profit motive drives companies to reduce their margins by providing a worse service to their customers). Its inevitably turning into a catch all term for old farts (like myself) to critique the modern world
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### Author:  [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2025, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grumpy-old-luddites-around-here/1016701/115 "2025-04-08T20:14:10Z")
I’m less worried about overuse watering down the term and just the shuddering meme-ness of the word. I imagine a pause after each time the word is used where someone waits to make sure everyone got how funny it was to say “shit” in there.
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### Author:  [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2025, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grumpy-old-luddites-around-here/1016701/116 "2025-04-08T20:15:29Z")
> [@PastTense](#):
>
> Well, ask if these old luddites have bought major appliances or outdoor equipment (snow blowers or riding lawn mowers) or a new big screen TV. I think a substantial number have while balking at new computers.
OTTOMH One Doper cannot afford a computer of any kind. They use a smart phone. They occasionally have problems paying for the phone plan.
Another Doper stated that the $300 I spent for my current laptop is beyond their means.
I have no reason to think either of them is lying.
I have had a full time job for the past few years. I don’t have car. I have no lawn as I live in an apartment. My major appliances came with the apartment. My Gobhi helped me buy my first flatscreen (it is a smart tv!) a few years ago. It is the biggest tv screen I have ever owned. By current standards it is medium to small sized.
I had a very nice fancy toner printer. My cousin got it new at one of those ‘buy from storage containers we bought off cargo ships’ places. It was undamaged but had no box, power cord, or manual. As you may recall, the toner was igniting for some reason. This was terrifying. Techy friends have assured me that whether I could fix it or not, opening the case would probably result in an explosion of toner. As inkjet cartridges dry up in a few months after installation even if you don’t print anything, I think another toner printer would save me money in the longterm. I should begin comparison shopping
Almost forgot- The desk with attached shelves I am using was about $600. However, my sister paid all but $200 of the cost. A long time friend assembled it for free. I feel it was massively overpriced.
I bought a nice particle board bookshelf from Amazon. Shipping was free because I used my Gobhi’s Prime account. It cost $40. I will probably buy a few more of the same model. I have many many books.
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### Author:  [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2025, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grumpy-old-luddites-around-here/1016701/117 "2025-04-08T20:32:16Z")
> [@wolfpup](#):
>
> Again, nope. Because, why? I have a nice 46" Sony that I bought probably ten years ago or more **that I turn on probably less than once a month**. Know why? Because I despise commercial TV, and there’s rarely there anything worth watching, and the fucking commercials “introducing …” totally drive me nuts.
>
> What do I do instead? I watch movies and commercial-free TV shows on my tablet, which looks great due to my near-sightedness, usually comfortably in bed, streaming or with hundreds of hours preloaded on my 256GB SD card. Yeah, I’m totally a Luddite! 🙄
You haven’t heard of Chromecasts or Firesticks? _Definitely_ a Luddite. 😜
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### Author:  [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2025, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grumpy-old-luddites-around-here/1016701/118 "2025-04-08T20:38:32Z")
ah, interesting. Thank you for the link! I suspect Trump will not be the final word on this though, either the courts or (more likely) congress will need to provide definitive clarity on it.
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### Author:  [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2025, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grumpy-old-luddites-around-here/1016701/119 "2025-04-08T20:45:41Z")
> [@Babale](#):
>
> You haven’t heard of Chromecasts or Firesticks? _Definitely_ a Luddite. 😜
Heard of 'em. Have your heard of comfortable foam mattresses, nice duvet quilts, and thick feather pillows as accoutrements for watching movies or, say, about 20 episodes of a TV series all in a row while luxuriating in same, because said viewer, being near-sighted, experiences the tablet image as pretty much theatrical? 😉
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### Author:  [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2025, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grumpy-old-luddites-around-here/1016701/120 "2025-04-08T20:59:21Z")
> [@Jophiel](#):
>
> I’m less worried about overuse watering down the term and just the shuddering meme-ness of the word
Meh, probably people were saying thing about phalanx and cumin
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