# Guantanamo Base **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [November 30, 2009, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-base/519526 "2009-11-30T22:08:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-base/519526/1 "2009-11-30T22:08:03Z")
[Cuba Base Column](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/896/how-did-the-u-s-get-a-naval-base-in-cuba) This column may deserve an update. Obviously a lots changed with Gitmo since June 17, 1994. I’ve been very surprised Castro hasn’t used current events as an excuse to raise heck about getting the base back. > [@](#): > > What’s more, the lease has no termination date, the rent can’t be beat ($4,000 a year, utilities not included–the Cubans cut off the water and electricity in 1964 and the base now provides its own), and best of all, to show his disgust with the Yanquis, Fidel won’t cash the checks! This sums it up nicely. I’ve read we had a protracted cold war over the base for most of the 1960’s. This has been a major thorn in Castro’s rectum for a long, long time. I do find it very odd that we built a prison there and not one word of protest from Castro? :dubious: Perhaps we made a generous donation somewhere? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-base/519526/2 "2009-11-30T22:31:39Z")
A few references that I found. > **[Guantanamo Bay Naval Base](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_Naval_Base)** > > Guantanamo Bay Naval Base (Spanish: Base Naval de la Bahía de Guantánamo), officially known as Naval Station Guantanamo Bay or NSGB, (also called GTMO, pronounced Gitmo /ˈɡɪtmoʊ/ GIT-moh as jargon by the U.S. military) is a United States military base located on 45 square miles (117 km2) of land and water on the shore of Guantánamo Bay at the southeastern end of Cuba. It has been "leased" from Cuba to the U.S., without expiry, since 1903 as a coaling station and naval base. It is the old Since... [How We Got Guantanamo from 1962 Article](http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/ah/1962/2/1962_2_18.shtml) Cold War antics [http://www.jtfgtmo.southcom.mil/community/history.html](http://www.jtfgtmo.southcom.mil/community/history.html) > [@](#): > > During the Fall of 1961, in order to discourage those who desired to flee communism in Cuba, Fidel Castro had his militia plant miles of cactus along the Northeast section of the fenceline. This became known as the "Cactus Curtain > [@](#): > > On Feb. 6, 1964, the Cuban Government ordered the water supply to the base turned off in retaliation for the arrest of 36 Cubans found illegally fishing in Florida waters. The fisherman were tried, found guilty, fined and returned to Cuba. On Feb. 17, 1964, Rear. Adm. John D. Buckeley, Commander of the U.S. Naval Base, ordered the water line from the Yateras River cut in front of members of the media and a section removed to disprove the Cuban Government allegation that the U.S. was stealing water. A 38-inch, 300-pound section of the 14-inch pipe and a 20-inch section of the 10-inch pipe were cut and lifted from the ground proving that the pipe was dry and then they sealed the opening permanently. Cecil mentioned the rocks in his column. > [@](#): > > Throughout the 1964 water crisis and construction of the desalinization plant, several interesting events occurred along the fenceline bordering Cuba. During the months before the crisis, Cuban guards harrassed Marine sentries by throwing rocks from the Communist side of the fence pelting the tin roof of the Marine Barracks with rocks all night long to keep them awake. Castro could raise a big stink about Gitmo’s prision if he wanted too. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-base/519526/3 "2009-11-30T23:07:17Z")
I just have to add this final quote. Adm. Buckeley had a wicked sense of humor. My kind of guy. 😉 > [@](#): > > the Cubans took up the practice of shining a large spotlight at night from the roof of the search house towards the front of the Marine Barracks. Rather than discouraging the spotlight of the hillside and barracks, Adm. Buckeley decided to capitalize on the situation by having a tent erected on the site, then ordered the Seabees to construct a large Marine emblem (Eagle, Globe and Anchor) on the hillside. Once the emblem was complete, the Marines waited for Cubans to shine their spotlight and then removed the tent. The Cubans saw that they were lighting up the Marine Corps emblem and secured the spotlight for good. Today, the emblem is lit by U.S. Marines all night, every night of the year. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2009, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-base/519526/4 "2009-11-30T23:22:42Z")
This gets more fascinating as I research it. Adm. Buckeley won the Medal of Honor and Navy Cross. Adm. Buckeley was the guy that got McArthur out of the Philippines. Castro had no idea who he was messing with. Rocks and lights weren’t going to bother Buckeley. > **[John D. Bulkeley](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Bulkeley)** > > John Duncan Bulkeley (19 August 1911 – 6 April 1996) was a vice admiral in the United States Navy and was one of its most decorated naval officers. Bulkeley received the Medal of Honor for actions in the Pacific Theater during World War II. He was also the PT boat skipper who evacuated General Douglas MacArthur from Corregidor in the Philippines and commanded at the Battle of La Ciotat. > Bulkeley's PT-boat heroics in defending the Philippines from Japanese invasion in 1941-1942 were the subject... > [@](#): > > In the early 1960s, Bulkeley commanded Clarksville Base, Tennessee, then a tri-service command under the aegis of the Defense Atomic Support Agency. Having lost none of his wartime daring, Bulkeley was known to test the alertness of the Marines guarding the base by donning a ninja suit, blackening his face and endeavoring to penetrate the classified area after dark without detection. This was a dangerous endeavor, as the Marines carried loaded weapons. Ever popular with his men, who both respected and admired him, Bulkeley could be seen driving around the base in his fire-engine red Triumph TR-3 sports car with a large silver PT boat as a hood ornament. Sorry for the long winded posts. I find our troubled relationship with Cuba very interesting. It all started with Teddy Roosevelt and San Juan Hill. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-base/519526/5 "2009-12-01T17:13:49Z")
IIRC the main legal technicality about having the prison in Guantanamo was that it was not US soil. If Fidel really wanted to raise crap, the simple solution would be to issue a proclamation ceding gitmo to the USA as its sovereign territory. Then suddenly it becomes subject to US law. Ho ho. Of course, that would require the communists to think outside the box. No can do. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-base/519526/6 "2009-12-01T17:58:12Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > IIRC the main legal technicality about having the prison in Guantanamo was that it was not US soil. > > If Fidel really wanted to raise crap, the simple solution would be to issue a proclamation ceding gitmo to the USA as its sovereign territory. Then suddenly it becomes subject to US law. Ho ho. > > Of course, that would require the communists to think outside the box. No can do. That would also require the US to accept Gitmo as its territory. For various reasons, the US might be unwilling to accept it, and find the current situation more convenient. One reason would be that it would become much easier to Cuban refugees to reach the United States, and so the US might have to handle many more of them. ETA: Australia moved Christmas Island out of the Australian migration zone for a similar reason. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-base/519526/7 "2009-12-01T20:29:21Z")
Australia was having problems with Cuban refugees? 😉 **md2000** , I suppose that depends on what kind of crap Fidel wanted to raise. It might make some temporary political complications for the U.S., but even if we accepted it there might be some legal wiggle room concerning the status of those prisoners. As it is, the loophole is already getting tighter. But the flipside is that it would make stronger political problems for Fidel. He’s been trying to boot the Americans out. Giving them the property would be the opposite of the answer he wants. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-base/519526/8 "2009-12-01T20:32:22Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Australia was having problems with Cuban refugees? 😉 No – just with refugees coming from various parts of Asia via Indonesia. And it’s still having problems with the issue. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-base/519526/9 "2009-12-02T19:28:17Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Australia was having problems with Cuban refugees? 😉 > > **md2000** , I suppose that depends on what kind of crap Fidel wanted to raise. It might make some temporary political complications for the U.S., but even if we accepted it there might be some legal wiggle room concerning the status of those prisoners. As it is, the loophole is already getting tighter. > > But the flipside is that it would make stronger political problems for Fidel. He’s been trying to boot the Americans out. Giving them the property would be the opposite of the answer he wants. Depends. It’s been what? 100 years? Odds are the Americans are not leaving just because Cuba wants them to. Like the Panama Canal Zone, they’ll give it back when they want to. Governments, left or right wing, are not known for recognizing the inevitable. That would make for an interesting case in the USA. “You occupy it. Your armed forces squat on it. The previous owner has given up all claims and ceded it to you. How can it not be yours?” keep the lawyers busy for another few years and raise trouble - which is what Fidel would enjoy… If it was just a matter of not being PART of the USA itself, then why no terrorist prisons in Puerto Rico or American Samoa? ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-base/519526/10 "2009-12-02T21:22:49Z")
Puerto Rico and American Samoa _are_ parts of the USA itself. Guantanamo is part of Cuba that the US has leased. ---
**Author:** ![qazwart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/5fc32e/32.png) [@qazwart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qazwart)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-base/519526/11 "2009-12-03T01:37:39Z")
Umm… Didn’t the Supreme Court reject the _Not Part of the U.S._ claim? In Boumediene v. Bush, the Supreme court put the detainees squarely within the realm of the U.S. Constitution which especially includes habeas corpus. I believe that the whole issue of the military base will be resolved rather quickly once the current government is replaced by a more representative government. Neither of the Castro brothers will live forever, and once they pass away, it will be quite difficult for the Communist government to continue without a lot of reform. The people in Cuba know what’s going on around them and how out of sync they are with the rest of society. Fidel Castro is extremely popular, but there isn’t a whole lot of structure to the Cuban Communist Party. They haven’t had a party congress since 1997. Most of the leadership was born in the 1920s and 1930s and there isn’t a whole lot of fresh blood to draw from. We’ll see a militarization of the government for a while and probably some China-like free market reforms. There will be some peace overtures to the Cuban population in America, and the Cubans will pressure the government to relax its stance against Cuba. At that time, the U.S. will decide it really doesn’t need a permanent base in Cuba and work out a deal with the government. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-base/519526/12 "2009-12-03T04:26:48Z")
> [@qazwart](#): > > Umm… > > Didn’t the Supreme Court reject the _Not Part of the U.S._ claim? I believe they ruled that Guantanamo’s not being part of the US does not alter the fact that it is under US jurisdiction, and that US law therefore applies there, which is not the same thing. If they had ruled that Guantanamo is part of the US, that would be very nearly tantamount to declaring war on Cuba. ---
**Author:** ![qazwart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/5fc32e/32.png) [@qazwart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qazwart)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-base/519526/13 "2009-12-03T17:04:23Z")
> [@John\_W.Kennedy](#): > > I believe they ruled that Guantanamo’s not being part of the US does not alter the fact that it is under US jurisdiction, and that US law therefore applies there, which is not the same thing. Yes, that’s what I meant. They ruled only that U.S. law applied there. They didn’t rule upon whether or not Guantanamo is actually part of the U.S. or not. No party in the case claimed that. The ruling was based upon the fact that Cuba has absolutely no oversight of the activities on the base, and that U.S. has sole jurisdiction. I always wondered why Cuba never claimed it had the right to oversee the base operations in regards to the detentions taking place there, then claim that Cuban law would prohibit this activity, and take its case to the U.N. This would have been a great embarrassment to the U.S who claimed that the base is on Cuban soil, so that U.S. law doesn’t apply and now would have to argue that Cuban law also doesn’t apply there since the base is under U.S. jurisdiction. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-base/519526/14 "2009-12-03T20:08:51Z")
**md2000** said: > [@](#): > > Depends. It’s been what? 100 years? Odds are the Americans are not leaving just because Cuba wants them to. Like the Panama Canal Zone, they’ll give it back when they want to. Right, but that doesn’t mean that Castro is happy with the arrangement or that he would think giving them the property outright would make anything better for himself. Causing some hassles for the US might be incentive, but what are the trade offs to the hassles caused to him? I suspect those are more significant in his eyes. **qazwart** said: > [@](#): > > We’ll see a militarization of the government for a while and probably some China-like free market reforms. There will be some peace overtures to the Cuban population in America, and the Cubans will pressure the government to relax its stance against Cuba. At that time, the U.S. will decide it really doesn’t need a permanent base in Cuba and work out a deal with the government. Possibly, or possibly a new government in Cuba will see benefit from having a U.S. naval base handy, and part of normalizing relations will be returning to accepting the treaty that was/is/might be in place. Also, the reform method might follow China’s path, or it might follow Russia’s path. Or some other variant. But it is likely something will change, hopefully for the better. > [@](#): > > I always wondered why Cuba never claimed it had the right to oversee the base operations in regards to the detentions taking place there, then claim that Cuban law would prohibit this activity, and take its case to the U.N. Now that could have been a viable plan to push for trouble. The only problem would have been acknowleding the validity of the treaty, which Castro was not willing to do. So that is why he couldn’t pursue that claim. It would have meant admitting defeat on the Treaty issue and conceding the U.S. the right to have Guantanamo there.