# Guantanamo- Detainees do have GC Rights after all **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 11, 2006, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-detainees-do-have-gc-rights-after-all/364056 "2006-07-11T16:58:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-detainees-do-have-gc-rights-after-all/364056/1 "2006-07-11T16:58:58Z")
Well bugger me, the White house agrees with me. Over the past four years I have argued vehemently that GC rights should be accorded to the detainees in Guantanamo, and now the White House confirms it: > **[US says Guantánamo inmates have Geneva rights](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/jul/11/guantanamo.usa)** > > The US today reversed policy when it said all detainees at Guantánamo Bay and all other prisoners in US military custody were entitled to protection under the Geneva conventions. \* The US today reversed policy when it said all detainees at Guantánamo Bay and all other prisoners in US military custody were entitled to protection under the Geneva conventions. The Bush administration had previously claimed terrorism suspects were “non-combatants” because they were fighting for a sect or faction and not a state and were therefore not subject to the Geneva conventions.\* If these detainees have these rights now, they have had them for the last four years. I pit the neo-con politicos who lied for four years to all of us. I pit the participants in the debates on this board who came up with excuses and get-outs for American behaviour in mistreating these individuals, and accused me of anti-americanism and worse. It seems that I’m as anti-american as The White House press spokesman, Tony Snow. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-detainees-do-have-gc-rights-after-all/364056/2 "2006-07-11T17:03:36Z")
They were forced into it. Remember that. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-detainees-do-have-gc-rights-after-all/364056/3 "2006-07-11T17:16:35Z")
Just because the America-hating Supreme Court forced the White House to hate America too, doesn’t excuse you from hating America, traitor. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-detainees-do-have-gc-rights-after-all/364056/4 "2006-07-11T17:17:42Z")
> [@Tony Snow](#): > > Mr Snow today insisted all US detainees had been treated humanely, but added: “We want to get it right.” > > He said today’s announcement was “not really a reverse of policy”, describing the supreme court decision as “complex” For this administration, one right out of four is about par for the course. I agree that the SC decision is complex, but … “humanely”? … “get it right”? … and “not really a reverse of policy”? (And why is it so wrong to reverse policy when the old policy was wrong, and becoming more obviously wrong day by day?) ---
**Author:** ![Tabula\_Rasa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a9adbd/32.png) [@Tabula\_Rasa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabula_Rasa)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-detainees-do-have-gc-rights-after-all/364056/5 "2006-07-11T17:18:25Z")
Funny world, ain’t it? Tony Snow said this morning that it wasn’t a reversal of policy. I still need to run that through the automatic de-Orwellizer. Tabby ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-detainees-do-have-gc-rights-after-all/364056/6 "2006-07-11T17:26:13Z")
From Andrew Sullivan: > [@](#): > > The decision by the Pentagon to formally abide by the Supreme Court ruling in Hamdan must, however, be seen in context. The critical context is today’s nomination hearings of Jim Haynes for a lifetime appointment to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit. Haynes made the Pentagon announcement; and Haynes, when he worked as general counsel for president Bush, was instrumental in the endorsement and enabling of torture. When Haynes was in the White House in November 2002, he endorsed the following list of “interrogation techniques” for use by the military and CIA: > > > [@](#): > > > > "forced nudity; forced grooming; “sing detainees[’] individual phobias (such as fear of dogs) to induce stress”; 20-hour interrogations; stress positions (i.e. haning from wrists from the ceiling); waterboarding (the use of a wet towel and dripping water to induce the misperception of suffocation); and “scenarios designed to convince the detainee that death or severely painful consequences are imminent for him and/or his family.” > > Haynes, by all accounts, is a genial fellow who simply told the president what he wanted to hear. But no man who has endorsed waterboarding as an interrogation technique should be allowed near a federal bench. War criminals cannot be judges. The Senate must deny Haynes a “reward” for following the law. If Hamdan hadn’t forced his hand, torture would still be policy. You don’t reward such criminals; you ostracize them and keep them for ever from public office. One further caveat: we still have no assurance that the CIA won’t still be authorized to torture in secret sites beyond our purview. we know how deeply attached Cheney is to the torture policy. He may still be trying to find a way to get around the law, as he has so doggedly in the past. We have every reason to be thrilled this morning, but history cautions skepticism as well. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-detainees-do-have-gc-rights-after-all/364056/7 "2006-07-11T17:28:12Z")
Ironically, this ruling may well mean that these individuals are incarcerated for even longer. The so-called ‘commissions’ that were to be set up to try them have been declared illegal too, as part of the Supreme Courts judgement, probably because they are incompatible with human rights, the right to defend oneself or the right ot counsel etc. Legisation now has to be enacted to produce a system to try these detainees which will have to go through Congress, and that means research, modelling, debate and political posturing. Add to this that some of those, who are yet to be tried, by a legal system that has not yet been formulated, cannot be returned to their nations of origin if found not guilty of any crime. Some might be deemed by the White House to be too dangerous to be freed, but their continued detention will have to proceed along differant lines, and evidence will have to be produced, and anyway, since any crimes will not have ocurred within US jurisdiction then this too will lead to great problems. They could well end up detained for several more years, I doubt Bush will be in office when and if they are released. It does mean the Red Cross should be able to gain unimpeded access, that is likely to be very interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-detainees-do-have-gc-rights-after-all/364056/8 "2006-07-11T17:28:21Z")
Calling: **Zigaretten** [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=3685106&postcount=87](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=3685106&postcount=87) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=3690697&postcount=92](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=3690697&postcount=92) **Monty** [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=3697087&postcount=109](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=3697087&postcount=109) **DrDeth** [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=3701541&postcount=115](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=3701541&postcount=115) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=3702486&postcount=118](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=3702486&postcount=118) and **Minty Green** and many others in the posts lost in the Winter of our Missed Contect. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-detainees-do-have-gc-rights-after-all/364056/9 "2006-07-11T17:32:29Z")
Just looked at the counts on the BBQ pit main page- 8 views - 7 responses - that’s some pick up rate. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-detainees-do-have-gc-rights-after-all/364056/10 "2006-07-11T17:37:20Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Just looked at the counts on the BBQ pit main page- 8 views - 7 responses - that’s some pick up rate. 🙂 I suspect there’s a delay or error in the system somewhere, because I’ve noticed something similar with other very young threads. For some reason the view count is way below what it should be, and I doubt that it reflects reality. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-detainees-do-have-gc-rights-after-all/364056/11 "2006-07-11T17:40:07Z")
Just for an example, there’s another new thread on the BBQ Pit main page that I personally have viewed, but it’s still showing 0 views. There’s a bug somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-detainees-do-have-gc-rights-after-all/364056/12 "2006-07-11T17:40:12Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > I suspect there’s a delay or error in the system somewhere, because I’ve noticed something similar with other very young threads. For some reason the view count is way below what it should be, and I doubt that it reflects reality. Never noticed it before- sometimes I have been really depressed :dubious: that so many people have read the words of wisdom in my OP and failed to convert their reading to a response. Maybe it’s a recent thing. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-detainees-do-have-gc-rights-after-all/364056/13 "2006-07-11T17:42:00Z")
> [@Tabula Rasa](#): > > Tony Snow said this morning that it wasn’t a reversal of policy. I still need to run that through the automatic de-Orwellizer. That line is making my head hurt. They’ve told some dumb lies over the years, but that one’s just stupid. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-detainees-do-have-gc-rights-after-all/364056/14 "2006-07-11T17:46:04Z")
> [@Tabula Rasa](#): > > Funny world, ain’t it? Tony Snow said this morning that it wasn’t a reversal of policy. What kind of dumbass swallows this shit? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-detainees-do-have-gc-rights-after-all/364056/15 "2006-07-11T17:48:30Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That line is making my head hurt. They’ve told some dumb lies over the years, but that one’s just stupid. It’s because one of the big sins these days is being a [flip-flopper.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41145-2004Aug4.html) Kerry partly lost the election because he was accused of being a “flip-flopper”. Changing policies = flop-flopping. Nuancing = looking like a flip-flopper. So you can change policies all you like, just don’t present them as a change. In Orwell-speak, “We have always been at war with Eurasia.” ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-detainees-do-have-gc-rights-after-all/364056/16 "2006-07-11T17:48:34Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > What kind of dumbass swallows this shit? Oceania has always been at war with EastAsia. These are not the droids you’re looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-detainees-do-have-gc-rights-after-all/364056/17 "2006-07-11T17:51:13Z")
The policy is to do whatever is politically expedient. Thus, this is not a reversal of policy. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-detainees-do-have-gc-rights-after-all/364056/18 "2006-07-11T17:56:03Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > What kind of dumbass swallows this shit? I guess you could ask something like 50% of the American electorate who cast ballots in '04. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-detainees-do-have-gc-rights-after-all/364056/19 "2006-07-11T17:57:17Z")
> [@Tabula Rasa](#): > > Funny world, ain’t it? Tony Snow said this morning that it wasn’t a reversal of policy. I still need to run that through the automatic de-Orwellizer. > > Tabby Meh, I’m picking nits here, but I wouldn’t call it Orwellian. Orwellian is when the populace has no choice but to believe it. Right now, we’re still at the point where we can just say “Ahhh, he’s fucking lying out of his asshole.” Also, George Bush doesn’t strike me as “Big Brother.” He strikes me more as “Younger Stoner Brother Who Barely Passed High School . . . And Who Now Has Access To Nuclear Weapons.” You know, now that I think about it, that’s worse. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-detainees-do-have-gc-rights-after-all/364056/20 "2006-07-11T18:09:35Z")
> [@Linty Fresh](#): > > Meh, I’m picking nits here, but I wouldn’t call it Orwellian. Orwellian is when the populace has no choice but to believe it. Right now, we’re still at the point where we can just say “Ahhh, he’s fucking lying out of his asshole.” Orwell’s dystopian vision of a totalitarian society with absolute thought control has not come to pass in the US, and is unlikely ever to. However, he also had a few words to say about the use of language, both in **1984** and elsewhere, and this Snow job fits exactly what Orwell was talking about. So “Orwellian” is (IMHO) exactly the right word. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-detainees-do-have-gc-rights-after-all/364056.md?page=2)