# Guantanamo force feeding is a nasty business **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2013, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-force-feeding-is-a-nasty-business/663629 "2013-07-16T02:12:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-force-feeding-is-a-nasty-business/663629/41 "2013-07-16T18:55:16Z")
> [@Jaymosch](#): > > Where? Wherever they ask to go. Why would it be up to anyone else? ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-force-feeding-is-a-nasty-business/663629/42 "2013-07-16T19:04:33Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Oh boy, a new idiot has decided to follow me around! > > Look, nitwit. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t have some supposed tough guy voluntarily subjecting himself to the procedure and crying and wetting his panties trying to claim that it’s so so so so horrible when a little girl shows you clearly that it is not. And there are plenty of videos showing people going through the procedure. Do I think it’s fun? No. But it should be obvious to even you that 95% of the “horror” of this is in the person’s mine. Seriously, dude, how can you not see that? What do you need, video proof? Oh wait… :rolleyes: To begin with, I’m not following you. You happen to appear in threads I’m interested in. Believe me, I wouldn’t follow you for any reason whatsoever unless it involved a shovel. And if you are really so blind that you can’t see the difference between a young woman who has clearly performed the procedure, voluntarily, many time in a controlled and comfortable setting versus a guy being restrained and physically violated against his wishes and faith; then you are a fuckwit beyond measure. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > What do they suggest prison authorities do when prisoners go on a hunger strike? Let them die? Yes, or alternately, treat them with some humanity and compassion. Do that and maybe they’ll feel up to eating without the need for forcible restraint. > [@Smapti](#): > > I believe the argument can be made that a person who believes God wants him to starve himself to death in exchange for supernatural favors in the afterlife is not “capable of forming an unimpaired and rational judgment”. You may believe that but you’d be wrong. God doesn’t want them to starve to death in hopes of some supernatural exchange. Their God has set out a list of prescribed and proscribed behaviours. They, it would seem, believe that they are taking a stance that their god would condone. Faith /= insanity. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Who should do that? Just grab someone of the streets. It’s not like we’re dealing with people or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-force-feeding-is-a-nasty-business/663629/43 "2013-07-16T19:05:06Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Obama? > > I voted for the guy (twice); in large part due to his promise to close Guantanamo, and in no lesser part due to his promise to not use the Federal government to prosecute cannabis users in states that had legalized the drug. > > I feel fucked over. I bet you feel even more fucked over by [the Senators who voted to block Obama’s executive order to close the camp.](http://www.webcitation.org/5jPWyaCDq) But why let facts get in the way of good old-fashioned outrage, hmm? ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-force-feeding-is-a-nasty-business/663629/44 "2013-07-16T19:33:10Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I bet you feel even more fucked over by [the Senators who voted to block Obama’s executive order to close the camp.](http://www.webcitation.org/5jPWyaCDq) > > But why let facts get in the way of good old-fashioned outrage, hmm? Are you suggesting that Obama was “surprised” with the voting? Are we now going to argue that it’s not up to him? Oh, man… the bar keep getting lower and lower … ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-force-feeding-is-a-nasty-business/663629/45 "2013-07-16T19:37:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I bet you feel even more fucked over by [the Senators who voted to block Obama’s executive order to close the camp.](http://www.webcitation.org/5jPWyaCDq) > > But why let facts get in the way of good old-fashioned outrage, hmm? I’m not wasting time finding the man’s words, but I know what his campaign promises were WRT Guantanamo and cannabis. He hasn’t kept his word. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-force-feeding-is-a-nasty-business/663629/46 "2013-07-16T19:41:54Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I bet you feel even more fucked over by [the Senators who voted to block Obama’s executive order to close the camp.](http://www.webcitation.org/5jPWyaCDq) > > But why let facts get in the way of good old-fashioned outrage, hmm? Convenient how Obama’s Senators vote against closing Gitmo…so that Obama himself can say “Hey, I tried to keep my promise.” ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-force-feeding-is-a-nasty-business/663629/47 "2013-07-16T19:52:12Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > And if you are really so blind that you can’t see the difference between a young woman who has clearly performed the procedure, voluntarily, many time in a controlled and comfortable setting versus a guy being restrained and physically violated against his wishes and faith; then you are a fuckwit beyond measure. We’re talking about the video the _actor_ made you friggin idiot. He was there voluntarily. He could have stopped it at any time. Or he could have just sucked it up and taken it like a 12 year old girl. I wish this guy was a friend of mine so I could bust his ball fore EVER about he cried like a little bitch while that girls—any many others—do what is an uncomfortable procedure routinely with no widdle tears. He **volunteered** to do this little bit of fake bullshit to generate outrage in those sheep he can count on. Sheep like you. Good for you for not letting him down. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-force-feeding-is-a-nasty-business/663629/48 "2013-07-16T20:12:48Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > Convenient how Obama’s Senators vote against closing Gitmo…so that Obama himself can say “Hey, I tried to keep my promise.” I was not aware our Constitution afforded the president the authority to dictate to members of Congress how they are obliged to vote. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-force-feeding-is-a-nasty-business/663629/49 "2013-07-16T20:20:41Z")
Of course this thread brings up the whole reason Guantanamo exists in the first place. These are supposed to be criminals who are a threat to national security and have committed heinous offences against it, or if released will go on to commit serious crimes against the US. Not a scrap of any evidence has been presented in a US court, they also do not have constitutional rights so they cannot appeal to the US legal system to test this ongoing force feeding and their rights in a US court. So what we have is a bunch of people with no right of appeal against their detention or their treatment, or even their own right to die. Way to go America - even the mentally ill get the rights of audience about their treatment in US courts. If they are being force fed, the US can pretty much do anything else it wants, no matter how distasteful,l because there is absolutely no accountability, not even a change of President can trump the wishes of the US military - who or what is being abused? I would put it that the rights of the American people and the reputation of the US. Frankly the US is little better than North Korea the only difference is scale, because the behaviour is no different, its ill will is just directed at a smaller number of individuals, for now. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-force-feeding-is-a-nasty-business/663629/50 "2013-07-16T20:46:27Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Into the US, with apologies about their detainment. Hell, smuggle them into the country and give them a fake identity. Its enough, really. Is this a whoosh? Why don’t we give them some Anthrax or explosives while we’re setting them up with their fake identity and hiding them in our civilian population. I mean, while we’re at it, why not? I say if they don’t want to eat, they don’t have to eat. Prisoners and protesters alike have long used fasting to call attention to a cause. Should Gandhi have been force fed by the British? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-force-feeding-is-a-nasty-business/663629/51 "2013-07-16T21:18:15Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Who should do that? Mitch McConnell, after apologizing for being a turtle in a human senate ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-force-feeding-is-a-nasty-business/663629/52 "2013-07-17T00:29:51Z")
Some of the hunger strikers have already been cleared for release: [http://www.policymic.com/articles/38395/guantanamo-bay-hunger-strike-at-least-4-strikers-have-been-released](http://www.policymic.com/articles/38395/guantanamo-bay-hunger-strike-at-least-4-strikers-have-been-released) How do you morally justify force feeding people that have been charged with no crime and actually have already been approved to be released? ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-force-feeding-is-a-nasty-business/663629/53 "2013-07-17T03:53:38Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > I don’t like Guantanamo, but I don’t think the solution is to let the prisoners starve. I don’t think anyone is suggesting that as a solution. (If anyone _is_ actually suggesting that letting prisoners starve is a _solution_, then they are, in my opinion, turds.) The point is that the Guantanamo detention camp is an affront to justice and human dignity and needs to be either reformed or shut down. > [@magellan01](#): > > Oh boy, a new idiot has decided to follow me around! When you leave your arse hanging out of your trousers, you will tend to get people following you. Some will be taking photos and laughing at you. Others will be calling out to you and telling you to pull up your pants. You should try listening to the latter. Seriously. Yeah, I thought that rapper looked like a wuss. And I thought that kid’s explanation about her nasal feeding proceedure was pretty cool. But videos of wimpy rappers and spunky kids aside, I can stretch my mind enough to imagine that being _forced_ to undergo such a procedure would be hell. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-force-feeding-is-a-nasty-business/663629/54 "2013-07-17T04:03:23Z")
> [@Not\_Carlson](#): > > I don’t think anyone is suggesting that as a solution. > (If anyone _is_ actually suggesting that letting prisoners starve is a _solution_, then they are, in my opinion, turds.) On the issue of prisoners having hunger strikes, there appear to be three options. 1. Force feed the prisoner. 2. Let the prisoner starve. 3. Give the prisoner whatever he demands - including a release from prison - in order to stop the hunger strike. Is the first option bad? Yes. But I’ll argue with anyone who claims the second or third options are better. > [@Not\_Carlson](#): > > The point is that the Guantanamo detention camp is an affront to justice and human dignity and needs to be either reformed or shut down. I agree. So we should shut it down. But we should do it because it’s an affront to justice and human dignity not because of hunger strikes. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-force-feeding-is-a-nasty-business/663629/55 "2013-07-17T04:42:11Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I agree. So we should shut it down. But we should do it because it’s an affront to justice and human dignity not because of hunger strikes. And I agree with this. As to the ethics of force feeding hunger-striking prisoners, I really don’t know, but I’d love to read a Great Debates discussion on that topic. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-force-feeding-is-a-nasty-business/663629/56 "2013-07-17T04:47:31Z")
> [@Not\_Carlson](#): > > I don’t think anyone is suggesting that as a solution. Then you haven’t bothered to read this thread: > [@Zeke N. Destroi](#): > > [Quote=John Mace] > > What do they suggest prison authorities do when prisoners go on a hunger strike? Let them die? Yes [/quote] ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-force-feeding-is-a-nasty-business/663629/57 "2013-07-17T04:50:29Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > \*\*Guantanamo force feeding is a nasty business \*\* But if you have a Doper’s sick twisted imagination, it could be worse. That tract has **two** ends . . . ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-force-feeding-is-a-nasty-business/663629/58 "2013-07-17T05:58:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Then you haven’t bothered to read this thread: > > > [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > > > > [@John\_Mace](#): > > > > > > What do they suggest prison authorities do when prisoners go on a hunger strike? Let them die? > > > > Yes > [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > . . . or alternately, treat them with some humanity and compassion. Do that and maybe they’ll feel up to eating without the need for forcible restraint. John, I think Zeke is sharing his opinon on a matter of ethics. I really don’t think he is proposing that letting prisoners starve is a . . . _solution_ to the problem. The opinion I was trying to get across is simply that if anyone were to actually respond to this issue by saying “Ha! Let 'em starve!” (an opinion which, as far as I can tell, no one here has voiced), then such a person would be, I feel, a complete and utter turd. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-force-feeding-is-a-nasty-business/663629/59 "2013-07-17T06:23:30Z")
Prisoners should be treated fairly just because they should be treated fairly. Hunger strikes should not be a factor. A prisoner on a hunger strike should get the same treatment as a prisoner who isn’t on a hunger strike. No prisoner should have to go on a hunger strike to get what he’s entitled to and no prisoner should get something he isn’t entitled to because he goes on a hunger strike. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-force-feeding-is-a-nasty-business/663629/60 "2013-07-17T11:06:06Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > A prisoner on a hunger strike should get the same treatment as a prisoner who isn’t on a hunger strike. A prisoner who is not on a hunger strike is provided nutrition which he/she may eat voluntarily. Are prisoners in general required to “clean their plate”? So, if a prisoner does not eat, but does not announce they are on a hunger strike, what happens? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-force-feeding-is-a-nasty-business/663629.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-force-feeding-is-a-nasty-business/663629.md?page=4)