# Guantanamo Torture: the Evidence **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 3, 2007, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-torture-the-evidence/386588 "2007-01-03T20:12:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-torture-the-evidence/386588/1 "2007-01-03T20:12:33Z")
No more claiming that the detainees make it up. The evidence from the man: > **[FBI: Workers saw prisoner abuse at Guantanamo - CNN.com](https://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/01/02/guantanamo/index.html?section=cnn_latest)** > > The FBI on Tuesday released documents showing at least 26 of the agency's employees witnessed aggressive mistreatment and harsh interrogation techniques of prisoners by other government agencies or outside contractors at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The FBI on Tuesday released documents showing at least 26 of the agency’s employees witnessed aggressive mistreatment and harsh interrogation techniques of prisoners by other government agencies or outside contractors at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. “On several occasions witnesses saw detainees in interrogation rooms chained hand and foot in fetal position to floor with no chair/food/water; most urinated or defecated on selves and were left there 18, 24 hours or more,” according to one FBI account made public. One FBI witness saw a detainee “shaking with cold,” while another noted a detainee in a sweltering unventilated room was “almost unconscious on a floor with a pile of hair next to him (he had apparently been pulling it out through the night).” Another witness saw a detainee “with a full beard whose head was wrapped in duct tape.” One FBI statement said that an interrogator squatted over the Quran and that a German shepherd dog was ordered to “growl, bark and show his teeth to the prisoner.” Other actions FBI personnel reported either witnessing or being told about included: # Placing a detainee in a darkened cell with the intent of interrogating him for 24 hours straight; the witness reported being told that then-Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld had approved this technique. # Keeping detainees awake for days on end with strobe lights and loud music. # Dressing as a priest and “baptizing” a detainee. # Subjecting a detainee to a lap dance by a topless female guard. # Interrupting detainees’ attempts to pray by putting fluid on their faces and telling them it was menstrual blood. # Beating a detainee who said he had recently undergone abdominal surgery. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-torture-the-evidence/386588/2 "2007-01-03T20:14:49Z")
That’s old news; get over it. \ ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-torture-the-evidence/386588/3 "2007-01-04T00:32:53Z")
You’re right. And the wheels of justice grind slow but exceedingly fine. Preferably, right _over_ those sons of dead dogs. Any other statements, Pjen? ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-torture-the-evidence/386588/4 "2007-01-04T00:52:05Z")
Isn’t this pretty much exactly what you posted in the pit [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=402606)? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-torture-the-evidence/386588/5 "2007-01-04T00:55:07Z")
[QUOTE=interface2x] Isn’t this pretty much exactly what you posted in the pit [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=402606)? [/QUOTE] Yes, but this thread is for thoughtful analysis, while that one is for outrage. Of course, since apparently any normal person who thoughtfully analyzed the situation would find it outrageous, I’m not sure where the line of demarcation rests. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-torture-the-evidence/386588/6 "2007-01-04T02:01:50Z")
When has anyone recently asserted that the detainees made up charges of torture? Perhaps that was common when torture was first revealed in 2003 and 2004, and perhaps a few isolated loons hold that position now, but for the last couple years the bulk of Dubya’s cheerleaders have believed that it’s a good thing that the United States brutally tortures and murders the innocent and guilty alike. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-torture-the-evidence/386588/7 "2007-01-04T02:43:41Z")
[QUOTE=Pjen] No more claiming that the detainees make it up. The evidence from the man: [/QUOTE] In looking at the actual report itself we see that one FBI employee heard from another FBI employee that a female guard was bragging about having given a topless lap dance to a detainee. The guard was apparently **not** an FBI employee so this was not pursued any further as being outside the provenance of the FBI. What do you think I should make of this? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-torture-the-evidence/386588/8 "2007-01-04T02:56:16Z")
Nothing: you wouldn’t care if it had happened. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-torture-the-evidence/386588/9 "2007-01-04T03:05:46Z")
Quick question (though rjung has thoughtfully attempted to poison this well already :rolleyes: )…are any of these events recent? There didn’t seem to be any time stamp on the events in the story, just a line saying they occured sometime after September 11th (very helpful that). I guess what I’m getting at here is…isn’t this old news? We’ve pretty well known that such tortures listed happened. Supposedly the camp has cleaned up its act…wasn’t there a bunch of congresscritters that supposedly toured it and claimed vast improvements? Undoubtedly THAT has got some rolling of eyes…but IIRC, the Red Cross also toured the new and improved facilities and also said things were much better than before. Certainly if this is all new stuff that recently happened then its good for both a debate AND a rant. If not…well, in the imortal words of rjung ‘get over it’ already. Its not like we haven’t had myriad threads on this topic already discussing all this shit before. Its not like most of us don’t accept that they happened, and that they were wrong. What more is there to say at this point (assuming it IS old news)? -XT ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-torture-the-evidence/386588/10 "2007-01-04T03:19:59Z")
Pjen do not get over this. At least until Yoo, Rumsfield or some higher ups get nailed for turning us into an unprincipled 3rd world country. At one time we were thought to be better than this. I can not accept it. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-torture-the-evidence/386588/11 "2007-01-04T03:26:54Z")
I read an account of the First Gulf War; an American pilot was shot down and interrogated by an Iraqi officer. The Iraqi asked him questions such as “Where was your airplane made?” It occurs to the airman that the interrogator knows he is supposed to question him, but has no idea how to do it, or what information he wants. In other words, he was in the care of a man who knew he was supposed to abuse him, and nothing the American could say would make him stop. Wonderful. I suspect the same thing here. These soldiers do not even speak the languages of the captives. They are told to ‘prepare’ the prisoner for interrogation. What does that mean? How do you do it? How do you know when you are done so you can stop? Are these interrogators doing Bad Things? You bet. Are they alone responsible? Certainly not. (Great, I am writing as Don Rumsfield speaks.) Where are the officers who put these guys in this situation? Heads need to roll. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-torture-the-evidence/386588/12 "2007-01-04T03:27:07Z")
Nothing has changed. Even the trogs who argued otherwise know exactly what happened. That’s why they don’t argue that it didn’t **happen** , but that only a bunch of pussy leftists would call it “torture”. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-torture-the-evidence/386588/13 "2007-01-04T03:39:07Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] Nothing has changed. [/QUOTE] Fine…I’ll accept that. This being GD and all however, lets see a cite to back it up. Do you have anything pointing to the fact that the torture continues unabated? That nothing has changed? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-torture-the-evidence/386588/14 "2007-01-04T03:49:37Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] Fine…I’ll accept that. This being GD and all however, lets see a cite to back it up. Do you have anything pointing to the fact that the torture continues unabated? That nothing has changed? [/QUOTE] Did I say that? Did the OP say that? Anything else you care to pull out of your ass? You could ask if I have a cite regarding the theory that Fidel Castro has made several assassination attempts on Big Bird. Same relevence. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-torture-the-evidence/386588/15 "2007-01-04T03:50:12Z")
They swore it never happened, and then strong evidence surfaces that, indeed, it did. Then they swear what never happened is not happening any more. You see where we have a problem with that? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-torture-the-evidence/386588/16 "2007-01-04T03:58:47Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] Did I say that? Did the OP say that? [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Merijeek] Nothing has changed. [/QUOTE] Why yes…in fact you did (the OP wasn’t stupid enough to say so…he seems to be still ranting about events that happened several years ago from what I’ve seen). 😛 Unless you meant something else by ‘Nothing has changed’ of course. Perhaps you could clarify instead of ranting off on a tangent? Or is it just that you are on a short fuse or off your meds or something? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-torture-the-evidence/386588/17 "2007-01-04T04:58:11Z")
What does it say about American society that our young people are so lacking in moral strength that they are willing to torture if told to do so by an authority figure? This is more and more troubling the more you think about it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-torture-the-evidence/386588/18 "2007-01-04T05:14:54Z")
I very much doubt there is anything peculiarly American about that. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-torture-the-evidence/386588/19 "2007-01-04T05:55:58Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] I very much doubt there is anything peculiarly American about that. [/QUOTE] Nor is it limited to the young, nor is it a recent phenomenon. Heck, the first Milgram experiments were 45 years ago, and they were just uncovering something that already existed in the human psyche. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2007, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-torture-the-evidence/386588/20 "2007-01-04T06:06:55Z")
I expect more of Americans, people like myself. We ought to know better. I find this angle especially depressing. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guantanamo-torture-the-evidence/386588.md?page=2)