# Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2 - seen it. (Open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 28, 2017, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-2-seen-it-open-spoilers/785465 "2017-04-28T23:39:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-2-seen-it-open-spoilers/785465/181 "2017-06-05T11:43:53Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > They _are_ amoral thieves and killers - this was made clear (and played for humour) even in the first film, especially that end scene. Yes, there’s lots of talk of being amoral, mostly for laughs, but they’re pretty consistently portrayed as essentially good—indeed, the moral cosmos of both films is very black and white, and there isn’t really any question about what should be done. There’s a clear ‘right thing’, and little fretting about what path they should take, little moral ambiguity. Even redemptions are basically either/or, going from ‘rargh I kill you’ to ‘let’s hug’, without much, if any, moral ground in between. Again, I don’t view this as a bad thing—it’s pretty clear that Guardians never intended to be complex moral drama, and there’s no reason for it to be, either (and we would loose the possibility of playing moral transgressions for laughs, if we started taking moral subtleties seriously). But before this backdrop, the whole issue with Rocket stealing the batteries seemed somewhat grating (while I thought the killing of the Ravagers was totally fine—they’d been unambiguously painted as bad guys). ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-2-seen-it-open-spoilers/785465/182 "2017-06-05T12:30:51Z")
You may have found it grating, but it was a central character point that Rocket stole the batteries because he was purposely acting like an asshole to push people away and keep them from getting too close because he was afraid of being hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-2-seen-it-open-spoilers/785465/183 "2017-06-05T13:47:43Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > You may have found it grating, but it was a central character point that Rocket stole the batteries because he was purposely acting like an asshole to push people away and keep them from getting too close because he was afraid of being hurt. Which is, I think, exactly why I found it so grating: in order for this to work, a character must actually have some sort of discoverable heart of gold that outweighs their flaws; but Rocket wasn’t just acting like an asshole, he was an asshole in stealing these batteries for no good reason. But it’s a minor grape, and I don’t want to detract from anybody’s enjoyment of the film. It just seemed odd to me that nobody had mentioned it so far. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-2-seen-it-open-spoilers/785465/184 "2017-06-05T15:20:24Z")
The Guardians have never really been “good guys”, and their universe is far from black and white. They’re all a-holes. They only look good by comparison with the 100% dicks they often deal with. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-2-seen-it-open-spoilers/785465/185 "2017-06-05T15:21:58Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > Which is, I think, exactly why I found it so grating: in order for this to work, a character must actually have some sort of discoverable heart of gold that outweighs their flaws; but Rocket wasn’t just acting like an asshole, he was an asshole in stealing these batteries for no good reason. which is entirely in accord with Rocket’s character. he wants that guys leg, the other guys eye, etc - ‘just to see what will happen’. Seriously, what do you expect out of a trash panda anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-2-seen-it-open-spoilers/785465/186 "2017-06-05T15:40:24Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > Which is, I think, exactly why I found it so grating: in order for this to work, a character must actually have some sort of discoverable heart of gold that outweighs their flaws; but Rocket wasn’t just acting like an asshole, he was an asshole in stealing these batteries for no good reason. \Aw, you just want to suck the joy out of everything.\ It is pretty clear that the Guardians universe is a pretty amoral place. Even Xandar, which is presented as being this enlightened multispecies culture, threw the main characters into the Kyln–a prison described by Rocket as controlled by guards who give no care as to the well being of the prisoners–with apparently no due process or consideration for culpability. Remember, Quill gets jailed even though the only actions he took were in defense of his person and property. The Kree Empire apparently doesn’t care that one of its chief warlords is carrying out a campaign of genocide in violation of treaty, and the Ravagers operate with apparent impunity wherever they like. There is no evidence of general lawfulness or morality in the Guardians universe, and given that it is populated with virtual gods who can essentially do as they wish, this is an unsurprising revelation. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-2-seen-it-open-spoilers/785465/187 "2017-06-05T16:03:06Z")
The universe paints itself as amoral, but that’s not really what we’re shown, story-wise—at every point, it’s pretty clear what The Right Thing To Do is, an the characters pretty much always do the right thing in the end—even if grudgingly, and ostensibly despite themselves. In a truly amoral setting, lines would be far more blurred—it wouldn’t be clear which action is the right one, or even whether there is such a thing, and there would be cases where different paths are equally defensible, and one could find significant moral dilemmas. But that’s not the Guardians universe, where again, the right thing is always pretty obvious—band together, stop the bad guy. Except for the battery theft, which makes it stand out—albeit, it seems, only to me. Which is fine, of course: different people can have different takes on the same movie. I was merely reporting mine, for whatever it’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-2-seen-it-open-spoilers/785465/188 "2017-06-05T16:08:07Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > The universe paints itself as amoral, but that’s not really what we’re shown, story-wise—at every point, it’s pretty clear what The Right Thing To Do is, an the characters pretty much always do the right thing in the end—even if grudgingly, and ostensibly despite themselves. In a truly amoral setting, lines would be far more blurred—it wouldn’t be clear which action is the right one, or even whether there is such a thing, and there would be cases where different paths are equally defensible, and one could find significant moral dilemmas. But that’s not the Guardians universe, where again, the right thing is always pretty obvious—band together, stop the bad guy. > > Except for the battery theft, which makes it stand out—albeit, it seems, only to me. Which is fine, of course: different people can have different takes on the same movie. I was merely reporting mine, for whatever it’s worth. I had the same issue. But since I had issues with essentially the whole movie, I didn’t focus on that one part. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-2-seen-it-open-spoilers/785465/189 "2017-06-05T16:29:28Z")
Except then even the main characters aren’t really all in unequivocal agreement. In the first film, Gamora is really the only one who, at least when it is first revealed that the Orb is an Infinity Stone, wants to do “the right thing” (presumably to clear her conscience of the murders she’s committed on behalf of Thanos) and deliver the stone to the Xandarians to protect (although why she believes the Xandarians are capable of this is in question, since they can’t even stop a Xandarian warship or Ravager vessels from threatening their main world. Quill is a morally neutral character who largely desires fame and glory (hence his insistence on being recognized to as “Star-Lord”). Rocket wants money, and also to irritate people because that’s what he does, and Drax just wants to smash shit with his friends. Yes, of course, their ultimate objective is to do something that the audience will sympathize with because this isn’t some deep moral drama, but it isn’t as if the characters come at the plot from the perspective of personal sacrifice for the sake of morality, and Rocket being a dick by stealing the very items they were hired to protect is exactly within character for him. Rocket is basically the kid in the group who flips off a cop or throws his drink at a bunch of marines just to start a fight and see what will happen. Note that this is in contrast to the Earth-based Avengers, all of whom are motivated by some sense of doing right and protecting humanity. Even Tony Stark, who is a complete dick and the analogue of Rocket, is motivated by a desire to make amends for prior bad actions which was the central motivator of his backstory. His desire for vengence combined with his guilt in not being able to live up to his own newly-found moral standards, is what drove the conflict in _Captain America: The Civil War_. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-2-seen-it-open-spoilers/785465/190 "2017-06-05T16:32:18Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Yes, of course, their ultimate objective is to do something that the audience will sympathize with because this isn’t some deep moral drama, but it isn’t as if the characters come at the plot from the perspective of personal sacrifice for the sake of morality, and Rocket being a dick by stealing the very items they were hired to protect is exactly within character for him. Rocket is basically the kid in the group who flips off a cop or throws his drink at a bunch of marines just to start a fight and see what will happen. I am groot ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-2-seen-it-open-spoilers/785465/191 "2017-06-05T16:43:15Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The Guardians have never really been “good guys”, and their universe is far from black and white. They’re all a-holes. They only look good by comparison with the 100% dicks they often deal with. I don’t believe anyone is 100% a dick. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-2-seen-it-open-spoilers/785465/192 "2017-06-05T16:47:46Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > I don’t believe anyone is 100% a dick. There are so many quotably good lines in these films. > [@simster](#): > > I am groot We are Groot! Stranger ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-2-seen-it-open-spoilers/785465/193 "2017-06-05T16:52:16Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > There are so many quotably good lines in these films. > > We are Groot! > > Stranger You’re going to start an intergalactic war with that kind of talk. The proper phrasing is “W_e_ are Groot!” ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-2-seen-it-open-spoilers/785465/194 "2017-06-05T17:06:49Z")
I think you can probably start an intergalactic war in the Guardians universe by sneezing in the wrong direction. It seems to be a pretty volatile place. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-2-seen-it-open-spoilers/785465/195 "2017-06-05T17:21:22Z")
And don’t even think about laying with an A’askavarian. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-2-seen-it-open-spoilers/785465/196 "2017-06-05T18:16:38Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > And don’t even think about laying with an A’askavarian. It was one time, man! Stranger ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-2-seen-it-open-spoilers/785465/197 "2017-06-06T07:42:45Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Remember, Quill gets jailed even though the only actions he took were in defense of his person and property. I’m pretty sure they were all wanted criminals - Quill is, after all, a Ravager - and they were all given _some_ due process - we see their booking and their rap sheets. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-2-seen-it-open-spoilers/785465/198 "2017-06-06T13:54:34Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I’m pretty sure they were all wanted criminals - Quill is, after all, a Ravager - and they were all given _some_ due process - we see their booking and their rap sheets. According to Corpsman Dey, Quill is wanted largely on charges of minor insult, public intoxication, and fraud. All four are summarily transported to the Kyln prison without any indication of hearing or trial. I suppose the Kyln might be the Xandarian version of Riker’s Island, but the discussion with Rocket seems to indicate that they’re going to be held indefinitely unless they affect an escape plan, and it is also clear that prisoners routinely murder one another with tacit approval by the guards. Xandar may be more civilized but it clearly doesn’t have what we would consider a balanced system of jurisprudence or right of appeal. I’ll submit that all evidence tends to indicate that the narrative universe of _Guardians_ is a pretty lawless and freewheeling place where maniacs and near-gods strike out and destory entire worlds with impunity, and even the ‘civilized’ cultures have few of the niceties of civil protections. And this is kind of how we’d expect it to be. There is no equivalent “World Council” or UN “Accords” to impose order or reign in troublingly powerful individuals. The wider galaxy–at least, what of it we’ve seen–is a essentially lawless and amoral. That the Guardians are _a little_ better is part of their essential motivation, but out of them Rocket is the least inclined to behave in an ethical fashion. His opinion of the Soveriegn–who he has already described as “entitled douchebags”–is sufficient justification in his mind for filching batteries. Not that he really needs any justification since he pretty much does whatever he pleases anyway; witness his final dialogue in the first film: Corpsman Dey: I have a family who are alive because of you. Your criminal records have also been expunged. However, I have to warn you against breaking any laws in the future. Rocket: Question. What if I see something that I want to take, and it belongs to someone else? Corpsman Dey: Well you will be arrested. Rocket: But what if I want it more than the person who has it? Corpsman Dey: Still illegal. Rocket: That doesn’t follow. No, I want it more, sir. Do you understand? Rocket the lead a-hole in a group of a-holes. That’s what makes his character fun. Irritating to the other characters, but fun. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-2-seen-it-open-spoilers/785465/199 "2017-06-06T14:00:48Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I’m pretty sure they were all wanted criminals - **Quill is, after all, a Ravager** - and they were all given _some_ due process - we see their booking and their rap sheets. It’s just an outfit, man. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2017, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-2-seen-it-open-spoilers/785465/200 "2017-06-06T14:46:09Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > I don’t believe anyone is 100% a dick. We haven’t met, have we? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-2-seen-it-open-spoilers/785465.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-2-seen-it-open-spoilers/785465.md?page=11)