# Gucks still believe Saddam involved in 9/11 **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 17, 2005, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gucks-still-believe-saddam-involved-in-9-11/295064 "2005-03-17T22:50:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2005, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gucks-still-believe-saddam-involved-in-9-11/295064/61 "2005-03-20T05:50:40Z")
> [@Taber](#): > > no, you missed the point. His point was if “the people were better off after the fact” was proper justification for the war, then Saudi Arabia, or some other somewhat shady country could justifiablely invade Iran or somethng, and claim that the Iranians were better off, because Iran is completely oppressed, and Saudi Araia pays lip service to democracy. Saudi Arabia has the worlds biggest oil supplies, damaging the infrastructure would be catastrophic, so I can understand the viewpoint in not invading that country, but to then say ‘if we invade this country why not that one’ is missing the reasons behind why we don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2005, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gucks-still-believe-saddam-involved-in-9-11/295064/62 "2005-03-20T05:56:50Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Saudi Arabia has the worlds biggest oil supplies, damaging the infrastructure would be catastrophic, so I can understand the viewpoint in not invading that country, but to then say ‘if we invade this country why not that one’ is missing the reasons behind why we don’t. uhhh…I wasn’t suggesting that we invade Saudi Arabia I was explaining how the justification of “the people are better off” is weak, because a kind of evil country could easily use it to invade a really evil country. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2005, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gucks-still-believe-saddam-involved-in-9-11/295064/63 "2005-03-20T06:33:26Z")
I’m afraid you miss the subtlety of **Ryan’s** point. To oversimplify, good people don’t do bad things, and, conversely, bad people don’t do good things. Saddam gives $25,000 to widows and orphans of Palestinian freedom fighters, struggling against their oppressors. A good thing? Certainly not, they are terrorists attacking our beloved best buddy, Israel, which is pretty much the same thing as attacking us. We invite sadists from Central American countries to come to America and learn the very latest in interrogation techniques. Kind of like “tough love”, Judge Judy with electric testicle clamps. A bad thing? Of course not! These men were bulwarks against the rising tide of Godless Communism! What would Jesus do? He’d turn the crank on the generator, you bet! We forbid the importation of chlorine water purification equipment, and Iraqi children shit themselves to death. A bad thing, you might think, but you never know! Chlorine can be a component of cutting edge, World War I military technology, and there is plenty of suspicion regarding the possibility of programs with any number of speculative inferences! When good people do evil things, they are no longer evil. By definition. If England were to take it into its mind to invade Iceland, that would be a bad thing, because Iceland is a militarily insignificant island, and no threat to anyone. But when America invaded Grenada, that was entirely different, because we’re the Americans. Its really quite simple, when you look at it the right way. As he does. ---
**Author:** ![ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZombiesAteMyBrain)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2005, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gucks-still-believe-saddam-involved-in-9-11/295064/64 "2005-03-20T13:19:28Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Yawn: Go shove your slogans somewhere else. ‘Bushco’ is successfully helping Afghanistan, is that a failure too? Well, yes, actually. The government’s power is confined to the area around Kabul, opium production is at a record high, most of the country is run by warlords, and the Taliban are said to be coming back in even greater numbers than before. [http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/21401/](http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/21401/) If that’s your idea of a success, I’d hate to see what you’d call a failure. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2005, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gucks-still-believe-saddam-involved-in-9-11/295064/65 "2005-03-20T13:28:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Saudi Arabia has the worlds biggest oil supplies, damaging the infrastructure would be catastrophic, so I can understand the viewpoint in not invading that country, but to then say ‘if we invade this country why not that one’ is missing the reasons behind why we don’t. Nothing to do with the fact that Saudi Arabia has been a “Partner in Peace” for the U.S.? ---
**Author:** ![ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZombiesAteMyBrain)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2005, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gucks-still-believe-saddam-involved-in-9-11/295064/66 "2005-03-20T14:56:00Z")
Are the USA doing such a great job for the Iraqi people, Ryan? Just one of many stories … [http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle\_east/story.jsp?story=621845](http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=621845) ---
**Author:** ![ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZombiesAteMyBrain)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2005, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gucks-still-believe-saddam-involved-in-9-11/295064/67 "2005-03-20T14:56:02Z")
Are the USA doing such a great job for the Iraqi people, Ryan? Just one of many stories … [http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle\_east/story.jsp?story=621845](http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=621845) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2005, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gucks-still-believe-saddam-involved-in-9-11/295064/68 "2005-03-20T19:45:17Z")
As Taber has pointed out very succinctly, whatever the outcome for the war in Iraq, the current justification of it is just too fucking flimsy for words and will wind up making hypocrites of us sooner or later, as we are forced to deal with some Third World ho-monkey dictator who moves in on another country using that “the people will be better off afterwards” shit. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2005, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gucks-still-believe-saddam-involved-in-9-11/295064/69 "2005-03-20T21:03:44Z")
> [@Suburban Plankton](#): > > Or it means that the war in Iraq was not the only issue concerning voters. Some of us are actually able to have two different thoughts at the same time. That was my point; Even people who thought Bush’s justification for war was right _still_ voted against him. Yes, they had two thoughts at the same time. But out of that 51% that _did_ vote for him, I bet there’s a very high correlation between “thinks Saddam had strong ties to al Qaeda/ was a threat to the U.S.” and “voted for Bush”. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2005, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gucks-still-believe-saddam-involved-in-9-11/295064/70 "2005-03-20T22:37:06Z")
> [@Taber](#): > > uhhh…I wasn’t suggesting that we invade Saudi Arabia > > I was explaining how the justification of “the people are better off” is weak, because a kind of evil country could easily use it to invade a really evil country. I don’t believe this, you people really don’t have a clue, equating the US with evil now? :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Are the USA doing such a great job for the Iraqi people, Ryan? Just one of many stories … The Anti war demonstrations happened yesterday, how many Iraqi expatriates turned up to protest the ‘destruction’ of their country, how many? Its a large community, so why didn’t they turn up in sufficient numbers? > [@](#): > > Nothing to do with the fact that Saudi Arabia has been a “Partner in Peace” for the U.S.? I would want nothing better than to see Saudi Arabia invaded and its absolutist monarchy and Wahabbist funding cut completely, but face reality, its the largest energy supplier in the world, we can’t hit that without harming ourselves. > [@](#): > > Well, yes, actually. The government’s power is confined to the area around Kabul, opium production is at a record high, most of the country is run by warlords, and the Taliban are said to be coming back in even greater numbers than before. The elected Government in Kabul was elected by 8million citizens, it has more clout than the warlords politically. [Militants on the decline](http://paktribune.com/news/index.php?id=84085) > [@](#): > > “There are a lot of them already in touch with the central government,” Mojdah said. “They want to find a way to cooperate.” Karzai has offered an olive branch to this group, saying they are welcome to return and help rebuild the country, except for a handful who have committed crimes or acts of terrorism. [Cash incentive to disband militias](http://www.irinnews.org/report.asp?ReportID=44107&SelectRegion=Central_Asia&SelectCountry=AFGHANISTAN) > [@](#): > > The commander, who was one of the most powerful warlords in Kabul, with more than 2,000 troops at his disposal, now leans more towards economic development than battling rival militias. “I am thinking of creating a paper factory in Kabul, we need a lot of paper for school text books and it will be good business,” said Toofan. > > The multi million-dollar Afghanistan New Beginning Programme (ANBP), the official name for the DDR process, is designed to disarmed more than 50,000 former fighters. So far, 22,000 members of Afghanistan’s dozens of militia forces have returned to civilian life since the process begun in October 2003. So for every bullshit about how Afghanistan is a ‘disaster’ theres always a story to prove the contrary. > [@](#): > > I’m afraid you miss the subtlety of Ryan’s point. To oversimplify, good people don’t do bad things, and, conversely, bad people don’t do good things. No, I didn’t mean that at all, but to say leaving Saddams dictatorship as if it were some political system which would of provided stability in Iraq for the long term, is laughable. And to say that everything we’ve done in Iraq is a disaster and nothing has been gained, is an idiot. > [@](#): > > Saddam gives $25,000 to widows and orphans of Palestinian freedom fighters, struggling against their oppressors. A good thing? Certainly not, they are terrorists attacking our beloved best buddy, Israel, which is pretty much the same thing as attacking us. Freedom fighters don’t massacre civilians with carbombs. End of story. Israel is a westernised democracy, the PA is now going in the right direction. This would of all ended years ago if Arafat had died sooner, he was the biggest impediment to peace in the situation. > [@](#): > > We invite sadists from Central American countries to come to America and learn the very latest in interrogation techniques. Kind of like “tough love”, Judge Judy with electric testicle clamps. A bad thing? Of course not! These men were bulwarks against the rising tide of Godless Communism! What would Jesus do? He’d turn the crank on the generator, you bet! Who says I deny the torture, the abuse and rape of prisoners, the mishandling of the war effort, the way in which we treat Iraqis, the corruption etc. You’re all blind tto the fact that alot is being done for the better in Iraq, and no matter how much you opposed the invasion, or the lies, we should stick with them until they can fend for themselves. > [@](#): > > We forbid the importation of chlorine water purification equipment, and Iraqi children shit themselves to death. A bad thing, you might think, but you never know! Chlorine can be a component of cutting edge, World War I military technology, and there is plenty of suspicion regarding the possibility of programs with any number of speculative inferences! You never heard of Halabja? The mass killings of thousands of Kurdish civilians? What gas did they use? Mustard Gas was used in Halabja, one of those World War One weapons you were talking about 🙂 [http://www.kdp.pp.se/chemical.html](http://www.kdp.pp.se/chemical.html) > [@](#): > > When good people do evil things, they are no longer evil. By definition. If England were to take it into its mind to invade Iceland, that would be a bad thing, because Iceland is a militarily insignificant island, and no threat to anyone. But when America invaded Grenada, that was entirely different, because we’re the Americans. Thats because the Prime Minister wasn’t/Isn’t cooperating with a person who used his country for missiles, which in effect nearly caused World war three. > [@](#): > > Influenced by Marxists such as Daniel Ortega, Fidel Castro and Che Guevara, Bishop’s NJM began to set up Worker’s Councils across Grenada. Aid from the Soviet Union and Cuba allowed the NJM to build an international airport with a 10,000 foot runway in St. George’s. In 1980, Coard was the head of a delegation to Moscow to formalise relations with the Soviet Union. > > The Organization of Eastern Caribbean States (OECS) appealed to the United States, Barbados, and Jamaica to assist them. According to the Prime Ministers of Barbados and Jamaica, this appeal was requested by the US. > **[United States invasion of Grenada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Urgent_Fury)** > > American-CPF victory >  United States Grenadian oppositionCaribbean Peace Force > Grenada Cuba > Military advisors: > **[Bernard Coard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Coard)** > > Winston Bernard Coard (born 10 August 1945) is a Grenadian politician who was Deputy Prime Minister in the People's Revolutionary Government of the New Jewel Movement. Coard launched a coup within the revolutionary government and took power for three days until he was himself deposed by General Hudson Austin. > Bernard Coard, the son of Frederick McDermott Coard (1893–1978) and Flora Fleming (1907–2004), was born in Victoria, Grenada, and is a first cousin of Hon. Mr Justice Dunbar Cenac, > Regi... ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gucks-still-believe-saddam-involved-in-9-11/295064/71 "2005-03-21T00:44:13Z")
> [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](#): > > Are the USA doing such a great job for the Iraqi people, Ryan? Just one of many stories … > > [http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle\_east/story.jsp?story=621845](http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=621845) If anybody reading this thread didn’t click the link, you need to. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gucks-still-believe-saddam-involved-in-9-11/295064/72 "2005-03-21T01:38:00Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I don’t believe this, you people really don’t have a clue, equating the US with evil now? :rolleyes: That’s the third time you’ve missed or dodged that point. Should I just take that to mean you can’t refute it? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gucks-still-believe-saddam-involved-in-9-11/295064/73 "2005-03-21T02:08:40Z")
I’m tempted to ignore that, **Ryan** , but this board is open to all, innocent minds might be affected, and someone really must think of the children. First off, Wikepedia. I _love_ Wikepedia, far as I’m concerned, it justifies Al Gore’s invention of the internet all by its self. I totally love the idea of a collective encyclopedia, with input from all over. It is also an excellent site for ongoing debates, with some real Googlemiester all-stars. Its a class act all the way. But using it as a cite is a bit less than kosher, especially when the matter at hand is debateable. I am entirely aware of the justification put forward for Operation Urgent Fury. If you wish to clling to the notion that this little pissant of an island represented some meaningful threat to the USA, you are welcome to your delusion. But be so kind as not to slander the dear, dear folks over at Wikepedia by pretending that they stand solidly and unanimously behind you. Not the done thing, don’t you know, bit of a stinky wicket. Your citation for the mustard gas attack on Hajalah fails on two counts: one, the cite is unabashedly partisan in its viewpoint. Caveat: there is much contention on the issue of who bears ultimate responsibility for this ghastly event, and I have no final opinion. A case can also be made for an accident of war, but I hold that the evidence is nowhere near conclusive. This is not to suggest that Saddam was too nice a person to do such a thing, only that he may not have. Ted Bundy was a monster, but he didn’t shoot Kennedy. (The Jesuits did it, but that’s another story…) Secondly, the very cite you offer states that the gas used at the Hajalah massacre was cyanide-based. Mustard gas is not cyanide based. Let me offer you a tip: you won’t look nearly so foolish nearly so often if you read your cites before you fling them. Only a suggestion, mind you. > [@](#): > > …No, I didn’t mean that at all, but to say leaving Saddams dictatorship as if it were some political system which would of provided stability in Iraq for the long term, is laughable… Huh? Wha? Who said anything about “providing stability” being desireable? Point of fact, the Iraq regime was comparatively stable, operating at the same batshit channel at the same batshit time for some thirty odd years. But what of it? If you feel compelled to contradict me, be so kind as to contradict something I actually say, there’s a good fellow. Rest assured, I will say plenty of stuff you will disagree with, you won’t go begging for point of contention. > [@](#): > > …The elected Government in Kabul was elected by 8million citizens, it has more clout than the warlords politically… And a perfectly delightful excercise it was, too. Nonetheless, what little evidence there is leans toward the notion that the guys with the guns have more to say than the guys with the ballots. Again, the paucity of reliable information from Afghanistan renders meaningful debate impossible. Nevertheless, you seem to have not the slightest qualm about delivering quotes from sources that harmonize with your agenda as though they were gospel, the straight stuff, unvarnished candor, a no-spin zone. Hmmm, a no spin zone, that’s catchy, maybe I should trademark that… > [@](#): > > …So for every bullshit about how Afghanistan is a ‘disaster’ theres always a story to prove the contrary… I don’t know which of these stories is bullshit, and niether do you. No one can prove anything when all the sources are tainted by agenda. Keep in mind, I’m not suggesting that I can prove that Afghanistan is an utter disaster, and all blame lies with The Drear Leader. Only that you cannot prove otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![buns3000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c89c15/32.png) [@buns3000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buns3000)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gucks-still-believe-saddam-involved-in-9-11/295064/74 "2005-03-21T02:44:54Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > And to say that everything we’ve done in Iraq is a disaster and nothing has been gained, is an idiot. When come back, bring syntax. ---
**Author:** ![ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZombiesAteMyBrain)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gucks-still-believe-saddam-involved-in-9-11/295064/75 "2005-03-21T03:32:51Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I don’t believe this, you people really don’t have a clue, equating the US with evil now? :rolleyes: Not the whole US - only their government. not that I think the UK is much better with regard to Iraq - you didn’t happen to watch Panorama tonight by any chance? It was an interesting documentary - Guardian report here > **[Blair manipulated intelligence to justify war, says BBC film](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2005/mar/21/bbc.politicsandiraq)** > > The BBC last night gave another sign that it is determined to maintain its editorial independence by screening a Panorama programme strongly critical of Tony Blair's manipulation of thin intelligence, on the second anniversary of the invasion of... ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gucks-still-believe-saddam-involved-in-9-11/295064/76 "2005-03-21T04:17:34Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m tempted to ignore that, Ryan, but this board is open to all, innocent minds might be affected, and someone really must think of the children. then fine, if you don’t like the source of Wikipedia, I’ll bring up this. Its the same thing it just cuts down on the amount of time I have to go around looking for it. > **[Welcome to the Air Combat Information Group](https://1map.com/de/acigorg)** "The Cuban government knew the value of Grenada’s location when it decided to utilize the former British colony as a holding place for arms and military equipment, complete with a major airport. Eastern Caribbean nations fully understood the implication of the communist threat and called upon the United States for help. The response was Urgent Fury, a multinational, multiservice effort. On March 13, 1979, the New Joint Endeavor for Welfare, Education, and Liberation (New Jewel) movement ousted Sir Eric Gairy, Grenada’s first prime minister, in a nearly bloodless coup and established a people’s revolutionary government (PRG), headed by Maurice Bishop, who became prime minister. His Marxist-Leninist Government established close ties with Cuba, the Soviet Union, and other communist-bloc countries. In October 1983, a power struggle within the government resulted in the arrest and subsequent murder of Bishop and several members of his cabinet by elements of the people’s revolutionary army." [http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/urgent\_fury.htm](http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/urgent_fury.htm) > [@](#): > > Your citation for the mustard gas attack on Hajalah fails on two counts: one, the cite is unabashedly partisan in its viewpoint. Caveat: there is much contention on the issue of who bears ultimate responsibility for this ghastly event, and I have no final opinion. A case can also be made for an accident of war, but I hold that the evidence is nowhere near conclusive. This is not to suggest that Saddam was too nice a person to do such a thing, only that he may not have. Ted Bundy was a monster, but he didn’t shoot Kennedy. (The Jesuits did it, but that’s another story…) So you’re now saying 8000 civilians died by accident? Are you out of your fucking mind? [here we go, about as unbiased as I can get 🙂](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2855139.stm) > [@](#): > > Secondly, the very cite you offer states that the gas used at the Hajalah massacre was cyanide-based. Mustard gas is not cyanide based. Let me offer you a tip: you won’t look nearly so foolish nearly so often if you read your cites before you fling them. Only a suggestion, mind you. No inspector moron, you stated that certain chemicals were being stopped from being imported because of inspections, then went to make the claim that all they could be used for is some crappy world war one type weapon, I then chose Mustard gas as an example. But hey, I don’t need to feel so bad about the cites as its even reported within the BBC as a massacre. So fuck you. By the way its Halabja. > [@](#): > > Huh? Wha? Who said anything about “providing stability” being desireable? Point of fact, the Iraq regime was comparatively stable, operating at the same batshit channel at the same batshit time for some thirty odd years. But what of it? If you feel compelled to contradict me, be so kind as to contradict something I actually say, there’s a good fellow. Rest assured, I will say plenty of stuff you will disagree with, you won’t go begging for point of contention. Iraq had been steadily declining ever since 1979, I don’t call that stable, I call that a catastrophe. ---
**Author:** ![ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b4bc9f/32.png) [@ZombiesAteMyBrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZombiesAteMyBrain)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gucks-still-believe-saddam-involved-in-9-11/295064/77 "2005-03-22T01:40:46Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > By the way its Halabja. [http://www.sovereignty.org.uk/siteinfo/newsround/iraq2.html](http://www.sovereignty.org.uk/siteinfo/newsround/iraq2.html) > [@](#): > > immediately after the battle the United States Defense Intelligence Agency investigated and produced a classified report, which it circulated within the intelligence community on a need-to-know basis. That study asserted that it was Iranian gas that killed the Kurds, not Iraqi gas. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gucks-still-believe-saddam-involved-in-9-11/295064/78 "2005-03-22T03:26:11Z")
Anyone else noticed that the justifications for the war started out involving actual threats, imminent problems etc. but have now watered down to the point where it’s a matter of unprovable speculation as to what terrible things might possibly have occurred in the long term if nothing were done? Another interesting point is that it seems that Saddam had to go because he was entrenched and dangerous and change would not happen on its own. But now that we are a little more desperate for excuses, it seems that Iraq needed to be invaded because it was unstable… ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gucks-still-believe-saddam-involved-in-9-11/295064/79 "2005-03-22T20:31:00Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Anyone else noticed that the justifications for the war started out involving actual threats, imminent problems etc. but have now watered down to the point where it’s a matter of unprovable speculation as to what terrible things might possibly have occurred in the long > term if nothing were done? The only people who _haven’t_ noticed this are the Bush apologists in deep denial. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gucks-still-believe-saddam-involved-in-9-11/295064/80 "2005-03-22T21:40:25Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > The only people who _haven’t_ noticed this are the Bush apologists in deep denial. And the ignorant gucks who bought their lies and still buy them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gucks-still-believe-saddam-involved-in-9-11/295064.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gucks-still-believe-saddam-involved-in-9-11/295064.md?page=5)