# Guess what, ladies, we're ruining this country! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 27, 1999, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-what-ladies-were-ruining-this-country/1891 "1999-06-27T07:38:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![bj0rn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@bj0rn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bj0rn)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 1999, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-what-ladies-were-ruining-this-country/1891/81 "1999-08-12T09:35:00Z")
gr8kat: i never said men and women arent equal, i just said we are different. i never assumed you would understand it the way you did(dont misunderstand me about this either, please :)). i feel the same way as you about growing up, i grew up in an equal environment. then when i got older, finished school i started working in a kindergarden, and i worked there for 2½ years. it wasnt the job, it was the kids. you can see it in the kids that they need both men and women when they are growing up. being equal doesnt really mean we do everything together, or there is no such thing as a mans job, or a womans job. what it really means is; we have equal rights to do what we want to do, no matter who, where or why. bj0rn ---
**Author:** ![bj0rn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@bj0rn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bj0rn)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 1999, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-what-ladies-were-ruining-this-country/1891/82 "1999-08-12T09:44:00Z")
im not going to tell you what it is like in iceland, because i cant. there isnt a steriotype thingy like that here in iceland. well, not that im aware of anyway. i belive most people here have gotten out of that way of thinking, although not long ago. we still have problems though in certain areas like wages, but the problem isnt sex related, statistically speaking there are more women working in jobs that arent paid that good, but men doing the same job are paid the same. so its more of a union problem or thing like that. * * * i hate being misunderstood, and i hate hating. - bj0rn ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 1999, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-what-ladies-were-ruining-this-country/1891/83 "1999-08-13T00:56:00Z")
I’m in favor of every aspect of feminism and/or women’s liberation that increases my personal chances of getting laid. Which is one of the reason’s I’m not exactly a Dworkinite. * * * I’m not flying fast, just orbiting low. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 1999, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-what-ladies-were-ruining-this-country/1891/84 "1999-08-13T01:26:00Z")
So far, my favorite of the pages on the “Father’s Manifesto” website is [http://fathers.ourfamily.com/dui.htm](http://fathers.ourfamily.com/dui.htm) . It states: > [@](#): > > the drinking & driving laws are effective in an adverse way–they contributed to an increase the traffic fatality rate. ## … and then proceeds to back this up with statistics showing that overall traffic fatalities went **down** by 9.7 percent from 1987 to 1997 and overall traffic fatalities per capita went down by 15.9 percent over the same period. I’m not flying fast, just orbiting low. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 1999, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-what-ladies-were-ruining-this-country/1891/85 "1999-08-13T02:03:00Z")
Oh, just noticed – if you click on one of the picture links near the top of the main Father’s Manifesto webpage (it appears as a broken image in my browser), you get this long sob story about the evils perpetrated against the site’s main “Michael” character by Child Protective Services and the police. I gotta wonder if his story isn’t totally made up, and if not, how many details he’s leaving out to make him look like such an “innocent victim” of the evil woman-elected anti-family authorities who are all out to get him. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 1999, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-what-ladies-were-ruining-this-country/1891/86 "1999-08-13T19:48:00Z")
Although I do not for a minute believe that men pay more than 100% of income tax, it’s not mathematically impossible. Consider the effect of the Earned Income Tax Credit. A substantial number of “tax-payers” get net money BACK from the IRS on their income tax. It is pretty much the negative income tax that George McGovern espoused. The EITC is generally regarded as a part of income tax. As I recall, when taxes were cut a few years ago, Democrats successfully added to the bill an “EITC tax cut” – that is, an increase in EITC payments. Since this money goes to the working poor, it’s hard to fault the program… ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 1999, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-what-ladies-were-ruining-this-country/1891/87 "1999-08-15T03:02:00Z")
december wrote: > [@](#): > > Although I do not for a minute believe that men pay more than 100% of income tax, it’s not mathematically impossible. Consider the effect of the Earned Income Tax Credit. This is, in fact, part of why the “Father’s Manifesto” page claims that those no-good wimmin folk out there pay negative taxes. However, the page also assumes that every single mother automatically gets a $4800 child care credit, which is a bit dishonest. Parents (single or married) can get a maximum child care credit of either $2400 per child -OR- the amount they actually paid someone else to take care of their kids, whichever is LOWER. * * * I’m not flying fast, just orbiting low. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2000, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-what-ladies-were-ruining-this-country/1891/88 "2000-09-26T15:05:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gr8Kat \* > \*\*From a dear friend of mine: > > To Smart Women Everywhere! > > 1. I’m not offended by all the dumb blonde jokes because I know I’m not dumb… and I also know that I’m not blonde. -Dolly Parton-\*\* I wouldn’t know; I never looked at Dolly that high. > [@](#): > > **8. I’m not going to vacuum 'til Sears makes one you can ride on. -Roseanne Barr-** And one that can support her weight. > [@](#): > > **9. I think-therefore I’m single. -Lizz Winstead-** That’s MY excuse as well. > [@](#): > > **10. When women are depressed they either eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. -Elayne Boosler-** Or watch sports. > [@](#): > > **12. I base most of my fashion taste on what doesn’t itch. -Gilda Radner-** Me too. > [@](#): > > **16. I never married because there was no need. I have three pets at home which answer the same purpose as a husband. I have a dog which growls every morning, a parrot which swears all afternoon and a cat that comes home late at night. -Marie Corelli-** Which one does she sleep with? > [@](#): > > **18. If men can run the world, why can’t they stop wearing neckties? How intelligent is it to start the day by tying a little noose around your neck? -Linda Ellerbee-** I haven’t worn a necktie since my Daddy’s funeral fifteen years ago. > [@](#): > > **19. I am a marvelous housekeeper. Every time I leave a man, I keep his house. -Zsa Zsa Gabor-** Beats working for a living, doesn’t it? Hey, I’m your side, you know that, okay? I just couldn’t resist having fun with some of these. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2000, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-what-ladies-were-ruining-this-country/1891/89 "2000-09-26T15:09:36Z")
Thirteen months??? This has GOT to be a new Landspeed Bump Record! ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2000, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-what-ladies-were-ruining-this-country/1891/90 "2000-09-26T15:13:41Z")
wouldn’t that be called a speedbump? Isnt this the second thread on this subject? ---
**Author:** ![Falcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/49beb7/32.png) [@Falcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falcon)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2000, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-what-ladies-were-ruining-this-country/1891/91 "2000-09-26T17:18:58Z")
Good LORD…I think this was one of my first Pit threads! Wonder if that site’s still up… ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2000, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-what-ladies-were-ruining-this-country/1891/92 "2000-09-26T17:30:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by aseymayo \* > **Gr8kat: 25 is not past that math-learning curve. 42 is well past it, I know that, but not 25. You can do it.** Total bullshit, dear. I’m 46 and math is only NOW starting to make sense. But then, I’m a guy. :: ducks and runs for the second time today :: ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2000, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-what-ladies-were-ruining-this-country/1891/93 "2000-09-26T17:39:06Z")
Um… I thought that page was a joke? I have seen it before and assumed it was, along with the Ladies Manifesto… Are you SURE they aren’t? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2000, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-what-ladies-were-ruining-this-country/1891/94 "2000-09-26T17:45:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OpalCat \* > \*\*Um… I thought that page was a joke? I have seen it before and assumed it was, along with the Ladies Manifesto… > > Are you SURE they aren’t? \*\* It’s getting mighty hard to tell between comedy and tragedy these days, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2000, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-what-ladies-were-ruining-this-country/1891/95 "2000-09-26T18:00:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > \*\*Isnt this the second thread on this subject? \*\* Yes, it’s in [Great Debates.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=39503) That’s how I found out about this thread. People are debating whether it’s for real or not. I called the toll-free number on the site’s homepage and got an answering service recording _that did not identify itself_, which I found strange. ---
**Author:** ![Gr8Kat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gr8kat/32/18668_2.png) [@Gr8Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gr8Kat)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2000, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-what-ladies-were-ruining-this-country/1891/96 "2000-09-26T19:24:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > \*\*wouldn’t that be called a speedbump? > > Isnt this the second thread on this subject? \*\* Well, if you want to get technical, it’s the first–check the dates 😛 Honestly, I didn’t think it was a joke. I learned about the Father’s Manifesto on a women’s-issues type website, and they sure didn’t think it was a joke. Guess everyone’s right about one thing: feminists have no sense of humor 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Gr8Kat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gr8kat/32/18668_2.png) [@Gr8Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gr8Kat)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2000, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-what-ladies-were-ruining-this-country/1891/97 "2000-09-26T20:40:11Z")
Ahem. I posted this link in the GD thread: [http://www.feminista.com/v1n3/wilson.html](http://www.feminista.com/v1n3/wilson.html) I don’t think it’s a joke. I think the Father’s Manifesto represents the bitterness and hatred of a bunch of deadbeat dads who want to blame their problems on their ex-wives and women in general. Whether or not their extremist campaigns will ever be taken seriously by congress, they shouldn’t be written off as just a joke. It’s not satire. It’s not parody. It’s not the anti-masturbation website, it’s CAP-Alert. And it’s scary how many people _are_ taking it seriously _and_ agreeing with it. It’s more than I can just laugh at and shrug off. It’s mean, vicious, and evil. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/guess-what-ladies-were-ruining-this-country/1891.md?page=4)